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WinMX World :: Forum  |  Discussion  |  Think Tank  |  Copypasta...
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Author Topic: Copypasta...  (Read 1299 times)

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Offline White Stripes

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Copypasta...
« on: May 04, 2011, 01:56:14 am »
Dont shoot the messenger, im just posting something thats a bit of an interesting read....
... left the timestamps in cos i didnt feel like stripping them...

Quote
19:04:11 This Channel is hosted on WCS 1.8.3-Win32
19:04:11 Topic: Information about why the recent attacks have taken place, and what WinMXWorld is up to, come inside for information.
19:04:11
19:04:11 Welcome to the room.
19:04:11 
19:04:11 In this article, I am going to explain a bit about the situation on the network. You may have asked "What is the issue? What's the point of all this? How did this all begin? Why am I being involved when I am just an ordinary user?" and I will try to get it covered here:
19:04:11 
19:04:11 The issue started when an independent developer wanted access to some protocol information about the network to develop some third party applications on their own, without involvement with any other developers. WinMXWorld has had this information hidden from the public, and only a limited group of WinMXWorld people have had access to it.
19:04:11 For WinMXWorld to release any of this information, they required the person requesting the info to join their developer team and got involved with them. There is nothing overly wrong about this, if they want to keep their protocol info closed, that is up to them, they have the right not to share it, even though I personally believe this is rather counter productive on a network like this.
19:04:11 
19:04:11 
19:04:11 Since none of this information was released by WinMXWorld, the developer decided to gain access to this information from another source by contacting KM, an old developer with extensive understanding of the network, as he had also worked out the same information that WinMXWorld was holding back (In fact, KM provided most of this information to WinMXWorld).
19:04:11 The developer explained the situation about WMW holding holding back on the info to KM. That was when KM decided to publish his own written documentation about the network in an attempt to break up WinMXWorld's strong monopoly on the network. He believed that WinMX was supposed to be an open and decentralised network with no single group being fully in charge of operating the network.
19:04:11 
19:04:11 However, when it came to WinMXWorld's attention that these documents had been published, they decided BLOCKLIST the user sharing these documents from the network.
19:04:11 This was the point where a very immoral decision was made by WinMXWorld, as they had now proven how a single group is in fact able, and willing to blocklist individuals for the files they are sharing, which widely breaches the fundamental principle of a decentralised network.
19:04:11 This blocklist was only intended to block and filter the recording industry's fake file flooders from the network, and nothing else. While WMW has been trusted to run an unbiased blocklist for a long time, the same cannot be said now.
19:04:11 
19:04:11 
19:04:11 
19:04:11 Discussions were raised in the WMW help room about whether these actions were moral or not, but WinMXWorld did not want to remove the entries from the blocklist, no matter how much pressure they got from the users around at the time.
19:04:11 The WinMXWorld admins responded by resorting to kickbans and insulting the users questioning them, in an attempt to neglect the entire situation and move on as if nothing had happened.
19:04:12 WMW were repeatedly warned that if they did not do the right thing by removing the entries from the blocklist, action would be taken to force them to do this.
19:04:12 
19:04:12 
19:04:12 Since WMW kept refusing to remove the entries, it became apparent that the only way to get the entries removed was with force. A larger userbase was needed for WinMXWorld to realise the seriousness of the network principle they had just breached.
19:04:12 Some light attacks were done on the network to get attention from more users on the network, was by temporarily saturating the network's resources to lower the performance of the network to a noticable point where users would come to WinMXWorld where they could get themselves informed about what was going on.
19:04:12 
19:04:12 WinMXWorld kept up with their insults and kickbanned many users that dared speak up about their opinion in the matter. Not only did they kick and insult the users that they didn't know, but they also insulted many regular WMW room visitors that had been around for a long time, that probably believed that they were valued and would get listened to.
19:04:12 Instead they were just told off, and the entries remained on the blocklist.
19:04:12 
19:04:12 After several days of pressure from many random users, and with pressure from yet another "attacker" that had surfaced (yet unknown to me) that was injecting a message into the network reading "When ghostship loses his huge ego this will stop", WMW finally decided to give in, and said that they would remove the entries.
19:04:12 The attacks stopped, and WMW were given some days to get the blocklist sorted. KM also forced them to create a new forum section where the current blocklist was would be posted, and each entry on the list would be documented with a reason of why the entry was added.
19:04:12 This was to make the blocklist more transparent by allowing any interested users to check the current blocklist, and questioning the validity of the entries.
19:04:12 
19:04:12 This looked good for a few days, but later on, WinMXWorld decided to add some new entries to the blocklist. These changes were not documented, and some incorrect entries had been posted in the forum section, or so I've been informed. The attacks continued trying to enforce the agreement that had been put in place.
19:04:12 
19:04:12 As of the time when writing this, the entries have been removed again, and the documentation in the forum is accurate (even though some of the entries for fake file flooders are obsolete and inaccurate).
19:04:13 
19:04:13 
19:04:13 
19:04:13 You might be interested in hearing what WMW has to say about their attempts to censor the protocol information from being published.
19:04:13 
19:04:13 WinMXWorld will try to defend their actions by saying they did it in an attempt to protect the network in the event the information would get into the wrong hands, claiming that this information in the hands of an attacker could bring the network down. However what they were really worried about was their monopoly, they wanted to censor this information as it could weaken their
19:04:13 strong position on the network if this information was made available to the public. Also, the information needed to make an attack utility has always been widely available for anyone, and WinMXWorld has been aware of this. However the information needed to make progress and develop useful third party applications has always been hidden from the public,
19:04:13 and this additional information was the info that was published by KM, and held back by WinMXWorld.
19:04:13 
19:04:13 
19:04:13 
19:04:13 In the end, I also want to add that while the discussions about the immoral blocklist entries were going on, suggestions about how the network could be decentralised even further, and a technical solution of how to distribute authority to multiple parties in a democratic and secure way was suggested.
19:04:13 These suggestions were of course opposed by WinMXWorld. Overall it is very apparent that WinMXWorld only cares about their strong position, and not what is to the best for the network.
19:04:13 I hope that WinMXWorld will refrain from abusing their position in the network, and that they will get some structure on the work they do, by creating some internal ethical guidelines, where they have taken their position in the network, and the basic principles of a decentralised network into consideration.
19:04:13 
19:04:13 We hope that this information has made you aware of what is going on, and that you understand why the attacks have taken place in order to win this important principal battle. The attacks were not done merely to cause disruption like WinMXWorld might want you to believe.
19:04:13 Please spread the word, by letting your friends know, and let WinMXWorld know what you think about their actions. Stand up and defend our network now.
19:04:14 
19:04:14 ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
19:04:14 PLEASE SCROLL TO THE TOP TO READ THE WHOLE STORY. PLEASE SCROLL TO THE TOP TO READ THE WHOLE STORY.
19:04:14 PLEASE SCROLL TO THE TOP TO READ THE WHOLE STORY. PLEASE SCROLL TO THE TOP TO READ THE WHOLE STORY.
19:04:14 This is not intended to be a chatroom, just a room for reading the story. Feel free to stay or leave as you please.
19:04:14 ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
19:04:14

for those interested it came from a channel (room) called 'winmx attacks information' .... ill let you find it for yourself since posting the channel hash might get me in a bit more 'trouble' than pasting this text...

Re: Copypasta...
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2011, 03:48:34 am »
This contains a number of facts, misinformation, contradictions and mistakes.

The core of the argument behind splintered and KM is they feel that winmxworld is a corrupt monopoly that controls the network however they want.
This is false.
Where the mistake occurs is that KM and Splintered have been away from winmx for some time and have not been here to see the changes in that time.

WinmxWorld, as always, exist to provide support to the network however it can.
The resources the network relies on are provided by winmxworld and it’s partners, pie.com, winmx4u (formerly pie.info) and a few community members who are not affiliated with any group.

Some of the events outlined in the above post are factual and documented elsewhere on this site.
The interpretations of those events are just that, interpretations, in the opinion of the author.

Offline DaBees-Knees

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Re: Copypasta...
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2011, 04:59:47 am »
I might add that no mention is made about the very offensive methods that have been used by those apposed to the current WinMx administration. Individual admins have been bombarded by filthy comments both privately and publically. This has more to do with personality attacks which the writer chooses not to mention. It is well known that KM has a dislike for certain individuals and will try to run them down if given the opportunity. The methods currently being used by the attackers of WinMx can only be described as disgusting. My own opinion is that they come from a childish mind as I am sure no sane adult would be proud to use these methods.

Offline Bluey_412

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Re: Copypasta...
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2011, 04:48:33 pm »
At the beginning, the author fails to recall/admit that he came to the WinMX World chat room seeking info about the Pie group, wanting to be nasty to them. When informed of the most recent events, and that Pie.info had changed to Community patch and become Pie.com, he burst into tears and then obviously decided that WMW should become his target for abuse for spoiling his little one-man party
What you think is important is rarely urgent
But what you think is Urgent is rarely important

Just remember that...

Offline GhostShip

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Re: Copypasta...
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2011, 07:51:36 pm »
I think I had better set the record straight here as I have for the main part been behind many of the key decisions made prior to stepping down and passing on the torch to others who share the same values of trust, duty and integrity we have done our best to follow here successfully I may add for 6 years now.


The author of the room notice states they will inform users why it was necessary that a few self appointed ex winmxers felt it necessary to both attack the network and its users and provide some serious justification for their abuses, anyone reading the rest of the notice will see quite clearly that these important things are brushed over and excuses given that cannot in anyones mind be called reasonable, the author NB aka Splintered is a well known long time friend of KMs and stated to myself in the wmw chat room that he had come back to attack pie, upon being informed that all winmx support groups where working together for the benefit of the network and its users it seems a decision was taken at that time to move on to another target aimed at destroying the peaceful and stable community wmw has helped to build, this started off with cowardly and anonymous attacks on the network and its users and KM only admitted his involvement when confronted with evidence from another user whom they tried to enjoin into their plan, the other user at that time wisely decided not to get involved, this other users was Josh whom many of you know.

After being forced to come clean with their involvement KM and NB have worked hard to stop the ill will and anger that folks have rightfully wished to turn on them and KM at this time made some claims about the blocklist, what KM does not tell folks is that he has had constant access to those who help take care of the blocklist and that he himself has spoken against it being public on this very forum for the sensible reason that if we make it too easy for the cartel to index the blocklist we also aid them to find work arounds for their own network attacks that winmx users are quite familiar with.

You can read KM own words  on the matter of not providing a public blocklist here

http://forum.winmxworld.com/index.php/topic,4113.40.html

Quote
they have had a few small attempts at getting past us but so far they have failed however if a list with all of their IP Addresses on it was public and kept
updated then they would put a lot more effort in to disrupting the detection methods

After dealing with KMs newly stated reasons for launching attacks and mediating with him one to one in a chat room on behalf of wmw a deal was proposed that would halt the attacks and allow users to enjoy the network unmolested, however it soon became clear that KM was not only unwilling to honour his half of the deal but in fact had all the time been laying plans to do yet further damage to the winmx community by setting up a site that contained both software and documentation that could and has since been shown to be tools and support for abuse, Km himself knows what he has released was a danger to the network as shown here once again in his own words.

http://forum.winmxworld.com/index.php/topic,5396.0.html

Quote
2. the issue of winmxworlds insistence on trying to get together information on the network, now you are well aware (the most senior admins are definitely more than aware, others will have seen it mentioned and i should hope would be smart enough to have figured it out) that this information in the wrong hands is extremely harmful not only to the entire network, and to every single user on it, but also endangers every other user on the internet even if they have never heard of winmx before - now this dangerous information you have, it has been announced on several intentions you plan to release it to the public... care to try to justify this? and will you still be stubborn enough to deny a problem whilst your home connection is being hit with 400Mbit+ of attack traffic using the information you insisted on releasing ?

As anyone can see KM repeatedly tries to claim he is the winmx network expert and says such information releases are dangerous, we at wmw have always agreed that to release this information would provide attackers with a raft of new exploits that could in a short time potentially destroy the network, KM admits and is aware of this clearly, in the notice above a u-turn is attempted and claims are made that this information was being hoarded and hidden well I admit that has been the case and obviously KM himself amongst others seems to agree with me as to the reason for ensuring this policy was correct.

What KM and NB are not aware of however is that many of the developers have been given this information after simply requesting it and showing/explaining some aspect of their need to have such information, its been shared responsibly amongst the developers and none have over the past 3 years abused the trust placed in them, the whole reason for gathering the information in the first place was primarily to protect the network and then to enable a replacement client development project obviously wmw has no team of super coders and so the sensible thing to do is ensure up and coming developers are given the tools they need and in a way that does no damage to the network , this then moves us to the creation of the "core development section".

The core is an area where secondary,chat,and filesharing aspects of winmx are openly shown and discussed and acts as a filter to those looking to locate malicious or dangerous information, those who take part in the secondary area are privately contacted if they have requested to learn more and their need for the primary information is assessed and at that time with a good idea of the persons integrity they are given further materials not available at wmw, no one in the core section is either forced to work for wmw nor are its members all from wmw such a claim is ludicrous given that there are 25 members at least and many have never ever posted in the section.

We have all seen the damage releasing primary information has had its no longer possible to show who is doing the attacks directly as when an attacker is located KM goes about trying to disrupt the network blocklisting team and cover his tracks, there is clearly more than one attacker and KM has contact with them by his own admission, the network has lost a large quantity of users due to these unwarranted attacks and only one person is responsible for giving the tools to these other attackers , there is little more to say on this matter at this point but regardless of all personal animosity and bad blood that's quickly built up since KM and others set about abusing the users its clear to me that releasing such information into the wild when he is fully aware of the damage  it could do is the most reckless and stupid thing ever, nothing anyone else has ever done compares to this the most stupid act by one single individual.

I make personal wishes of thanks to all the other responsible holders of protocol information who have for years kept the networks gold closely to their chest and never sought to cash in on it for their own enrichment, its a pity some other disgruntled folks are not of the same calibre






Offline achilles

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Re: Copypasta...
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2011, 09:02:09 am »
What has been the explanation for requesting to have addresses removed from the blocklist by KM?
I'm a Hardware, and Cyber Security Guy.

Offline achilles

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Re: Copypasta...
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2011, 09:25:24 am »
Ok..I read the entire first post by Silver Stripes, and I think I see more or less why KM has issue to the entries on the block list. I do not think the primary information should be handed out to just anyone. Having said that; I really don't know what kind of system should be implemented or should have been implemented when deciding on who gets access to such information that could potentially harm the network.  Lets be real here.  It would be difficult to evaluate the integrity of someone you have never meet.  Anyone could say whatever, and how could their statements be shown to be true or false? I don't know, but I would be very reluctant to hand out info to just anyone.  There's just too many people out there that would misuse such info.  Case in point; all the attacks on the network! 
I'm a Hardware, and Cyber Security Guy.

Offline GhostShip

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Re: Copypasta...
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2011, 09:16:46 pm »
The system I have been running has been working perfectly well and for some years now, trust is obviously built up over time and intentions are pretty easy to divine when one is actually looking for serious character flaws, its obviously a balancing act to keep the network safe at the same time as ensuring developers are not stunted when they need further information, I like to think wmw's track record is good to excellent in this respect.

Responsible sharing of information has aided the network in many ways and will do so again in the future, what was clearly unacceptable was the anarchistic release of information with malicious intent and full knowledge that there is no easy way to fix the protocol flaw.  I must confess my first thoughts on this matter where ones of  utter despair followed by anger anyone would do such a thing, anger of course feeds bad will and petty thoughts and  so whilst I'm still upset I have taken the counsel of others in this matter and joined the que to aid those making efforts to fix the problem, a somewhat mission impossible job but they have hope and I think we can only do our best to support them, thats all I ask of anyone atm, if you have socket level programming skill your talents are fully welcome and will be used for the benefit of all winmx groups as Eagles work was, whatever some folks may say we are all in this together and together we are capable of much more than the sum of our individuality.

Thanks for posting your thoughts btw Achilles  :)

 


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