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WinMX World :: Forum  |  WinMX World Community  |  Winmxworld.com Strategic Directions  |  New Client
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Author Topic: New Client  (Read 107180 times)

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Offline MSmithy

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Re: New Client
« Reply #180 on: December 13, 2014, 01:29:35 am »
Sorry, I have been away for quite some time. What is the ETA on the updated new client?

Offline GhostShip

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Re: New Client
« Reply #181 on: December 13, 2014, 03:23:44 am »
I stopped giving out ETA's a while ago MSmthy  :oops:

There are a few areas still to complete and bring up to expected standard, we are still facing a critical shortage of coders but with the holidays coming up and our team getting time off work we may be able to get some of those problem areas resolved and a new release ready, we have come a long way since the initial release but with a small crew doing the work as well as the research and the planning/design etc we are in effect still crawling along when with further non-dev assistance we could be making better speed.

As I type we are still working on the OurMx client as we do most nights, I cant say anything more than that except  to ask you to look over the progress updates of late to see whats being achieved and how far is left to go, we can all agree we need this badly, other issues however take up time such as my concern regarding when are folks going to rally around to work out all the other issues that a decent release will bring, distribution, publicity, small beta tester groups who can be trusted with "in progress"  versions to test smaller parts that would be an issue on a general community beta, all of these things take "thinking time" away from what the dev team should be doing, some days there has been no one around who can be trusted to test some features and not share the version under test, this is what is being faced and adds to the delays, back in the day when KM and others where hard at work I would run support, if data was required I would find it, if something was unknown I would work out the answers, this isn't being done by anyone in the current community as they perhaps feel isolated from the project but given this is a primary level project and a leak could do a whole extra level of damage that's had to be the case, but that's not a real reason for folks to sit on their thumbs when theres support work that we still need to speed the whole project along as well as create infrastructure for other developers when we go open src, by this I mean documentation of the client code wont write itself etc, all of this falls to the current small team when in many cases this load could be shared collectively.

So..  Short answer is asap, but it would be refreshing to see more folks offering to self manage assistance in areas that are currently stealing  developer time, rest assured we will get there but ... we can get there faster if we start to work as a team of users again as we have done in the past when troubles raised its head, those with skills need to make themselves known and coordinate to be a part of this ever increasing project, we have a dream, we need to turn that into solid reality and focus our efforts accordingly.

As always thanks for your interest and your patience.

Offline Plum

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Re: New Client
« Reply #182 on: January 24, 2015, 05:07:58 am »
Anything I can do to help? I don't currently code.

Offline GhostShip

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Re: New Client
« Reply #183 on: January 24, 2015, 05:41:12 pm »
Coding is just the sharp end of the project Plum, theres so much to do to bring things to a happy conclusion and of late things are mounting against us in terms of time, our main coder is pretty much busy with real life work most of the time the past year leaving myself to continue the battle with whoever I can press gang into work, however last month I had to change employment myself and with longer hours I am very concerned that our dream is sliding in the wrong direction.

To deal with the coder shortage problem I have spoke to a few helpful community folks who advised me to get some parts of the client into open src so others could help out during such times when the actual dev team are over committed, so I have stolen some time from our main work project to work on a secondary version of the client that can serve two purposes, one is to get more folks looking at what sort of coding ability we need and the style that's used in the OurMx client and two is for those folks to bring bug fixes, updates and new code additions that can in many cases be ported forward into the main build, this is the only real hope we have to get the client completed in a fair time span. Its a firm belief that with good luck and and community commitment we can spot and gain new coding talent and induct them into the main dev group to complete the primary client build, lets be fair here its well overdue and we need fresh engines to help spur us past the finish line, I will contact you privately to discuss what avenues you can best render support for this project, my thanks for your fine offer  8) 8) 8)

Offline JOSE

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Re: New Client
« Reply #184 on: January 26, 2015, 10:09:07 pm »
I exposed you liars 2 years ago, remember? when you said ourmx was almost done.

Since then you have missed numerous deadlines and lied continuously.

Sept 2014 you said "we have just missed the deadline for completion".

The reality is that ourmx is dead in the water, a lost cause and the developers know it.

There has been no updates for months although Ghost claims to have no time
but continues to post rubbish about subjects that he has spent hours trawling the net for.

Give it up and tell the truth to people your project is doomed to failure
you have taken way too long on a simple app, Microsoft have created
3 versions of windows in less time than you have taken.

I expect this post to be deleted and a ban but that is the way you lot operate.

LIARS.


Offline GhostShip

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Re: New Client
« Reply #185 on: January 26, 2015, 10:49:25 pm »
How can I be a liar when I have my copy of visual studio open permanently on my machine, I admit to making a few posts on the site and looking for p2p related articles that I feel provide some clues as to the direction of the anti p2p folks and their focus, are you simply angry with us because we cant in fact lie to you and say all the work is done etc ?

I haven't posted any new images for a while simply because the area I have been focusing on prior to about 3 weeks ago was the transfers code, theres not much to see in there really.

OurMx would be almost done if others helped out Dai, I would have thought that you could comprehend the simple truth of  "many hands make light work", conversely  few hands to a task makes for long delays and many unsatisfied folks.
When Microsoft's programming team of at least 450 coders working 365 days a year have time to spend on OurMX I will put them to work, until then its a rather uneven comparison.

The forum rules state that as long as you don't swear your post will remain where it is simply because theres no lies to hide, I have made our situation clear at each opportunity its been requested, in the first 2 years we had more folks on the job so we saw more throughput of work, in the last year or so its been considerably less so far from lying I have been honest and mentioned such unscheduled delays in my posts, what is it that you actually want of anyone as it seems you haven't posted anything here to support the community or ever help anyone to my knowledge so  is this simply your way of getting some attention for yourself ?

I am sympathetic to the poor state of the network and share the frustration of all of you regarding when action can be taken to fix the damage caused by another famous attention seeker but please bear in mind I didn't create these network issues and I and the rest of the dev team give up our free time to work on both practical and theoretical solutions that can be employed when we have the hands to implement them, we can choose to either be part of the solution and have faith or shout abuse as you seem to be doing from the sidelines but in reality you are in fact deluding yourself as I for one know that OurMX will reach the end of the road with a public release, even if it's many years hence, its simply a challenge for me and thus I don't have to prove anything to anyone bar myself, if I wanted to give up as you have I could simply do so, I have chosen not to because unlike you Dai I want to be able to say to myself each day I did the best I could to hold our community together for as long as I could, many others here share that goal and mentality.

Ask yourself just what it is you want of us when posting as without such focus your post seems a collection of frustrated and angry soundbites that creates a feeling of sympathy for you but does not achieve anything satisfying for either of us. 

Re: New Client
« Reply #186 on: January 27, 2015, 02:10:12 am »
maybe ourmx is doomed to failure, maybe not. Why should the developers give up?

if you want ourmx to be a dead project, easy, go away and never look back, then as far as you are concerned it will never come to life.

You have been deleted and banned before because you only come here to troll, is it any different this time?

Offline Pri

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Re: New Client
« Reply #187 on: January 27, 2015, 03:58:42 am »
Remember this project is not being done by robots. There are human beings behind the posts here and it's not fair or decent to speak about people here the way you just did Dai. No one is getting paid to work on this project, no one has sold you anything so don't be so hostile.

Offline wonderer

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Re: New Client
« Reply #188 on: January 27, 2015, 05:58:54 am »

When Microsoft's programming team of at least 450 coders working 365 days a year have time to spend on OurMX I will put them to work, until then its a rather uneven comparison.

GOD beware that ever happens
we would be saddled up with security hole fixes about every month :D

Offline zeexen

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Re: New Client
« Reply #189 on: January 27, 2015, 11:01:53 pm »
Why do you call the new client "Ourmx"?
I'm ( and a lot of people) are used to WinMX. Every single computer i owned has winmx installed. Currently i have 4 computers with winmx.

Maybe it's because I'm so used with Winmx ( using it since 2000 ) that ourmx sounds a bit strange.

Offline GhostShip

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Re: New Client
« Reply #190 on: January 27, 2015, 11:31:32 pm »
Originally the project was codenamed "MxShare" by myself but it was thought we should let the folks decide and in a somewhat small public vote OurMX won the day  :)

Offline Plum

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Re: New Client
« Reply #191 on: January 28, 2015, 01:33:15 am »
I think I know who the naysayer is based on precedent. I imagine there is some sock puppetry at work, but be that as it may. I don't see any evidence that anyone is intentionally lying. That is what happens at software projects. Everyone starts out optimistic, but then coders leave, or there are budget cuts (if this were a commercial project), or unforeseen challenges occur. You might assume you know a protocol or an API set, but you find it is not as simple as anticipated. If this were a commercial project with a legal team, all the coders could be given access to the entire thing, after signing an NDA or something and agreeing not to leak it.

Yes, WinMX is a more familiar name, but we need our  own. We respect the original work and don't want to step on that. MyMX might have more of a ring to it, but it would be confusing, much like the "My Computer"  icon. That has confused a lot of customers calling tech support. "I want you to go to My Computer and open it." "How do I get into your computer?" "No I mean the icon with the name on your desktop." "Well my computer doesn't have a My Computer icon." So I guess Microsoft got wise to that and just called it Computer. OurMX is less confusing of a name than MyMX and honors the community spirit.

Going sideways with open source might be helpful. If nothing else, make a Gnutella-based program with an MX-style GUI, if the GUI is a challenge. I say Gnutella-based since that code is readily available and can be just plugged in with minimal effort. So the interface would just be a wrapper for a standard G2 client. Then once other coders improve the GUI, that could be imported back into OurMX. And for protocol stuff, if you don't want to open it up, is that you could make projects that use chunks of the code you would use, then you can recombine it from those projects into your own. And make sure you have an open source license type that lets the original author retain all rights to the original and remain free to use it outside the license (and the license applying only to the derivatives of the public source), or whatever. I mean, you'd hate to end up GPLing yourself out of what you want to do.

And yes, PM me if there is something I can do.

Offline p2psafer

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Re: New Client
« Reply #192 on: June 15, 2015, 07:23:27 pm »
Hi,

Glad to see there are still some folks that haven't given up yet, even if things look pretty slow at the moment.

I'm an old fan of WInMX, and IMO, none of other p2p software ever offered all in one such a simplicity, speed though a reasonable anonymity, community builder. This is sad to see how the network is dying for good. I know how hard it can be to rewrite a whole progam like this, especially only on spare time. I even wrote my own client, but never finish it due to lack of time/motivation and small knowledge of the primary protocol to make it a full usable Winmx replacement

I'm wondering if u have considered some other shortcuts to bring it into life. The weak point is much about the primary protocol weaknesses. So why not just replacing it while still keeping the WinMX application as it is ? It would be much much less work to plug an alternate primary protocol (known and proved robust) through used DLL (like oledlg), or through user proxy setup. User connecting as secondary would actually connect to the localhost new protocol server, and communication between both of them would mimic regular WPNP.  Both primary protocols would still be used for a while (like emule uses Kad & eDonkey) letting the new network growing and getting some primary servers,  and until enough users have switched to the new update.

Obviously, there's a lot of think/work to do, but it looks like to be a much reachable goal

What do you think of it ? Am I just raving ? :D




Offline GhostShip

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Re: New Client
« Reply #193 on: June 15, 2015, 08:30:52 pm »
The hurdle for the development team is pretty much one of time, whilst we can work on OurMX pretty much exclusively we cant do that whilst redesigning the protocols and gathering community agreement about just whats acceptable in terms of any changes, I agree this is the best time ever to update and upgrade the whole network but the effort has to come via many and at the current time all of this resides on the backs of a few a small few if truth be told.

What I have proposed before and am taking this opportunity to do so again is to ask for not just theoretical concepts but practical examples of potential network  improvements, if a framework of secure technology can be built within or around our existing network topography and specifically adds additional hurdles to network attackers of all wallet sizes I think the community can rally once again and pick up the baton moving us all forward to a better future, what has anyone to lose by adding their input ? 


Offline White Stripes

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Re: New Client
« Reply #194 on: June 17, 2015, 12:38:33 am »
theoretical concepts are unfortunately what it boils down to.... and a modified gnutella client... modified to connect to its 'own' blocklist protected gnutella network and have winmx chat built in with a different method for listing channels so old chat servers and new alike can be connected to...

chat seems to be the only real thing holding winmx together so... it makes the most sense anyway considering the winmx source was and most likely never will be made available...

Offline GhostShip

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Re: New Client
« Reply #195 on: June 18, 2015, 05:27:16 am »
The availability or otherwise of the WinMx src is not really relevant at this stage as the whole ideal is to work past such limitations to allow for a flexible future, the main issue facing us is simply one of defeating spoofed traffic that leads to excessive network management activity, gnutella is also prone to the same attacks the WPN is suffering however they mitigate the problem firstly by increasing the quantity of peers at the hop 1 stage and with some intelligent search query handling as a step up from the simple query flooding technique we see on the WPN.

A malicious peer with enough knowledge will still be able to generate  a substantial attack  using the current models for either network and thus the solution lies in ensuring a method exists for managing peers to be able to authenticate the traffic from other such peers and disallow malicious or modified traffic before it can reach a level that draws in an excessive quantity of network resources, the trust model for our network is broken, if we can resolves this problem using a cryptographic solution or by adding a novel feature that addresses this conceptual level weakness we can turn the tide in our favour.

I apologise to some of you for the verbosity of whats being posted here but anyone capable of  addressing our problem will doubtless be able to comprehend our needs and look at possible methods to address the problem outlined, I believe we have many intelligent community members out there and having now outlined the key problem I welcome potential solutions that can successfully address it, As mentioned a working example will be of more usage than a concept alone but lets see what we can dig up between us.

Lend us your brains  8)

Offline wonderer

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Re: New Client
« Reply #196 on: June 20, 2015, 01:24:37 am »
its like a coconut
the shell is hard the inside soft
once you find the eyes in the shell the inside is eaten easy
we are looking for the way to make the inside less easy to eat

correct me if its different fruit

Offline White Stripes

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Re: New Client
« Reply #197 on: June 20, 2015, 10:16:25 pm »
now: sliding shoe for search... snubbing for primary node flood (torrent snubs misbehaving clients)... and adapting the cache servers to store channel names (and ofc channel hash)...

future: SSL(or TLS.. you pick) for packet sniffing... hmmmm... hashed 'slices' so a file does not get damaged in xfer (anything over 50mb is a coin toss for me... always has been on mx).....

absolutely needed now: programmers (college students?) ... personally id put all of ourmx on github and let ppl poke new code into it as needed... the wpn is on its very last legs... no sense in hiding anything anymore...

Offline GhostShip

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Re: New Client
« Reply #198 on: June 20, 2015, 11:21:32 pm »
I still dont see the army of supposed coders hiding out on github who might be interested in this network because put simply none have surfaced at all in the last 4 years despite us reaching out at intervals into p2p programming circles, to be honest I dont care for github at all and I understand that all "native" developers for this network that I have spoken to share a responsibility to do their utmost to ensure what is left of the network remains operational, that would cease to be the case if OurMx was handed over to those whom have no interest in this network bar its usage as a ddos engine for malcontents, I can say with my hand on my heart that I would oppose any such release as the client sits, with modifications to remove such potential exploits I would support such a release.

We are stuck as a community in a loop of chicken and egg atm, do we go ahead unilateraly and make changes without agreement with the community developers etc or do we wait until they back a proffered solutions such as sliding shoe or one of the others that folks have put foward, its going to cause disruption whatever happens it seems simply because there is no single authority for network development or even a basic group of ad hoc developers in discussion with others whom have an interest in this network, being no one is in charge it will likely come down to a breakaway group at some stage and that could be the final nail in the coffin, it may on the other hand be the great reviver of our fortunes but its a brave man who is going to take that route without agreements on the way ahead and before that takes place folks need to agree to discuss, now is a good time to undertake this sort of discussion as part of the way ahead I would be happy to take part in such discussions myself should a group get together to discuss our future but importantly this needs to happen in an honest and timely fashion with all such discussions being made public and transparent, in this way any propsed changes can be relayed to the rest of the networks users for their thoughts and discussions as well as just for the general heads up on whats being discussed and why, does anyone have the time and inclination to form such a group aimed at guiding our community into a an enhanced and stable future rather than one with an outcome result of mistrust and recrimination ?




   

Offline Pri

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Re: New Client
« Reply #199 on: June 21, 2015, 04:19:34 am »
We've put RoboMX and Metis on github and we intend to put RCS 2.0 on there, an open chat server for the network later this year. Mostly so people with an interest can vet the codebase and make the changes they want and of course fork it to use as a base for their own server variants. The user on github called RenMX will be turned into an organisation later this year and all the projects from us will live together there.

As of right now we have RoboMX and Metis under the MXControl user on Github and people can start going through those, forking and making changes today.

I do think collaboration in the open is important. Not everyone has time to commit to a project full time and with the way code is transferred between interested parties it creates boundaries. Github is used by everyone now, it's the defacto standard when it comes to code collaboration and it really cannot be beat.

If OurMX is not destined to live there or to be open sourced at all then that's your choice of course, but calling it OurMX when we can't see the source or make any changes to it is probably sending the wrong message, it's not really "ours", and I know it was chosen by committee but I didn't see WinMX get asked about it, sorry if I missed the poll or discussion on that on the forums.

I strongly believe that WinMX shouldn't just be "owned" by a few individuals. The users are the most important part and I think they should have the sources of the tools they use. Maybe I'm too far down the GNU ladder for some with that statement but that's how I feel about it. If OurMX were to be put up on Github I would contribute when I have time, I would certainly use the client then as I know if I find things that annoy me I could fix myself on github and recompile it. As it is now I don't have interest when we already have WPCC with feature parity to OurMX and also Seans client Mato which also has feature parity and is also closed source. We've had enough closed sourced projects end when the developers go, it's time to make things open and not tied to just one or two individuals I think.

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