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WinMX World :: Forum  |  WinMX World Community  |  Winmxworld.com Strategic Directions  |  What Operating System Are you Using With WinMx In 2017 ?
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What Operating System Are you Using With WinMx

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Author Topic: What Operating System Are you Using With WinMx In 2017 ?  (Read 1100 times)

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Offline GhostShip

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Re: What Operating System Are you Using With WinMx In 2017 ?
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2017, 06:41:40 pm »
I dont see much of a nightmare here, no facebook, no flash, no email, thats 80% of exploits trashed already and lets be fair storing personal data on an xp or older machine is sort of like shooting yourself in the foot, even if someone stole my old machine theres nothingl to gain.


Offline White Stripes

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Re: What Operating System Are you Using With WinMx In 2017 ?
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2017, 11:16:17 am »
ok, by 'security nightmare' i'll give an example; when windows 2000 first went out of band a very nasty bug was noticed in the way it handles .ico format icons ... specifically one could be constructed in such a way that it would cause arbitrary code to be executed when the icon was loaded/displayed by explorer ... which included internet explorer ... IE6 was still a popular browser at the time because of XP so people on windows 2000 were using it as well, by doing so, a website, any website, could have a favicon that was constructed to use this exploit, all one had to do was go to the website... thats it... the icon loaded and the code executed... ...and this is just one example of a 'drive by' bug that went unpatched in windows 2000...

i, at the time, was lucky enough to be using firefox... then not too long after got my paws on a copy of XP... that was supported until 2014.. the only official (read: not a POSReady hack patch) patch for xp released after 2014 was a fix for the wannacry bug/worm that caused xp machines to crash by the thousands... it was a small miracle that this patch was released.. microsoft didn't have to do that...

every security update that microsoft releases for win7 and newer is a lucky catch that could have gone bad, unfortunately many disable automatic updates, thinking its for the best, which leaves their PC full of holes ripe for the exploiting... its just as bad for out of band versions of windows, just that there is no option to get updates even if its turned on... hence 'security nightmare' because the bugs just keep piling up...

<rant>

doesnt matter if you avoid facebook, dont install flash (which has regular updates btw) avoid email (thunderbird is still updated so you arent limited to using outlook) or dont store any 'personal' information... the operating system itself is broken....

disabling automatic updates is also a bad idea unless you plan to keep up with them manually; you need those updates... if you dont install them, worried they may break your computer, then you are just asking for your computer to be broken for you....

this applies to everyone... old windows is buggy windows... disabling updates is buggy windows.... keep your machines up to date...

</rant>

Offline GhostShip

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Re: What Operating System Are you Using With WinMx In 2017 ?
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2017, 03:29:11 pm »
it obviously isnt broken despite your claims, it has the increased potential to be broken perhaps but your making a lot of assumptions to back your statement.

Even the newer operating systems have bugs and will be exploited at some stage, it really is deluding yourself if you think that by updating when MS issue a patch it means your safe, we both know MS can take years to patch some of the holes that are reported to them, and we also are both aware that some of the holes are created by the updates themselves, as one hole is closed its often the case that another has been accidently opened up, its all rather too common and not something to worry about really, say someone does jack this machine who really cares and what will they gain ?

Nothing bar half an hour of my time, thats the ultimate cost of any attack here, getting all excited about potential exploits that are limited in reality to known vectors and thus in the main avoidable routes is not something I concern myself with, ask yourself when the last time was that I complained about viruses etc ?

Never is the answer.

Offline Pri

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Re: What Operating System Are you Using With WinMx In 2017 ?
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2017, 02:43:41 am »
ok, by 'security nightmare' i'll give an example; when windows 2000 first went out of band a very nasty bug was noticed in the way it handles .ico format icons ... specifically one could be constructed in such a way that it would cause arbitrary code to be executed when the icon was loaded/displayed by explorer ... which included internet explorer ... IE6 was still a popular browser at the time because of XP so people on windows 2000 were using it as well, by doing so, a website, any website, could have a favicon that was constructed to use this exploit, all one had to do was go to the website... thats it... the icon loaded and the code executed... ...and this is just one example of a 'drive by' bug that went unpatched in windows 2000...

i, at the time, was lucky enough to be using firefox... then not too long after got my paws on a copy of XP... that was supported until 2014.. the only official (read: not a POSReady hack patch) patch for xp released after 2014 was a fix for the wannacry bug/worm that caused xp machines to crash by the thousands... it was a small miracle that this patch was released.. microsoft didn't have to do that...

every security update that microsoft releases for win7 and newer is a lucky catch that could have gone bad, unfortunately many disable automatic updates, thinking its for the best, which leaves their PC full of holes ripe for the exploiting... its just as bad for out of band versions of windows, just that there is no option to get updates even if its turned on... hence 'security nightmare' because the bugs just keep piling up...

<rant>

doesnt matter if you avoid facebook, dont install flash (which has regular updates btw) avoid email (thunderbird is still updated so you arent limited to using outlook) or dont store any 'personal' information... the operating system itself is broken....

disabling automatic updates is also a bad idea unless you plan to keep up with them manually; you need those updates... if you dont install them, worried they may break your computer, then you are just asking for your computer to be broken for you....

this applies to everyone... old windows is buggy windows... disabling updates is buggy windows.... keep your machines up to date...

</rant>

Very well said and I agree with it all.

Offline White Stripes

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Re: What Operating System Are you Using With WinMx In 2017 ?
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2017, 12:32:14 pm »
Quote
Very well said and I agree with it all.
Thank you.

Offline Bearded Blunder

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Re: What Operating System Are you Using With WinMx In 2017 ?
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2017, 02:28:17 am »
I was using CrashPlan also. One of the alternatives I found was Duplicati, it's open source and their new 2.0 version came out earlier this month. It works on Windows, Linux and macOS. However it's a little rough around the edges.

Stand out features: Deduplication, Encrypted Backups, Full backups, incremental backups, remote destination support (FTP, S3, B2, SFTP, Amazon, Google). And also local backup support to a drive you have connected to the computer being backed up or to another computer you own using simple FTP/SFTP etc.

Hope that's helpful Beaded. It's definitely not for everybody and may not fit what you need but it does have many of the same features Crashplan had.
Looking at the Duplicati GitHub page, I see one of the current open issues is that restores are producing empty dirs. where the original thing it backed up was NTFS junction points.. this is going to result in VERY broken restores for any Windows version later than XP.  Thanks for mentioning it, though I had found it previously, and ruled it out for the reason mentioned.  Broken restore is a deal-breaker, otherwise it'd fit what I need :)

Been looking at UrBackup myself.  Also open source, and I've tested it both backing up and restoring Win 7, 10, and 2012r2 successfully so far.

Quote from: White Stripes
problem is that anything in the windows family that is 'vista' and earlier is a security nightmare since there are no more security patches being released for these systems...
Not a big deal running WinMX in a Win9x VM, no modern malware will even begin to run, it has the wrong DNA, and expects an NT variant, worst case it crashes the VM.. which isn't used for browsing or email anyhow, since there's no browser you could use that can handle the modern internet.  Pretty much the only thing exposed is WinMX, it can't be scanned/wormed from outside being behind NAT.

ReactOS isn't really ready for prime-time, besides I like the debian based Linux distro I run and I enjoy setting up virtual machines with old OS versions just to play.. I have VMs running NT3.1 and DOS/Win 3.11 set up just for the fun of it.  As GS says below, it's not ONLY about running WinMX.


Quote from: GhostShip
It does sound to me like a lot of over effort has been put in to undertaking what is a fairly simple operation but then some folks are not strictly talking about running WinMX
The only effort is setting up the VM, and installing Win9x ain't much different than installing any other OS in VirtualBox or QEMU, are you forgetting I have the patch I hacked up for my room members on hand?  Patched WinMX for 9x is just click through the installer.
Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall not be disappointed.

Offline GhostShip

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Re: What Operating System Are you Using With WinMx In 2017 ?
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2017, 12:26:23 pm »
Forget ?? moi ??  :lol: :lol: :lol:


After reading my words to Stripes above I had the feeling I might have been a bit harsh on him because he was after all proferring a  reasonable route towards freedom from issues as opposed to the convulted routes many of us take, I suspect it was simply because I felt  he was  leaving little wiggle room for me to do my own thing that I turned up the heat a tad in return, If your reading this Stripes my apologies, I enjoy your informative and helpful posts here as I am sure do many others.

Offline White Stripes

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Re: What Operating System Are you Using With WinMx In 2017 ?
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2017, 05:39:08 pm »
Quote
ReactOS isn't really ready for prime-time, besides I like the debian based Linux distro I run and I enjoy setting up virtual machines with old OS versions just to play.. I have VMs running NT3.1 and DOS/Win 3.11 set up just for the fun of it.  As GS says below, it's not ONLY about running WinMX.

and i like my install of linux mint... i prefer linux.... i also have installs of various old copies of windows in VMs 'just for fun' as well... but there is no way i would leave them connected to the internet unmonitored even if its just the VM that might break because thats just as real of a 'fix' as if it were on real hardware.. ..speaking of real hardware i also have an install of windows 98 on an old pentium 3 so i can get at DOS to run toys from days gone by... it too is connected to the internet but thats for ease of getting to modarchive.org to take advantage of the AWE32 soundcard or pouet.net to take advantage of the fact that im running DOS... but would i leave that machine connected to the net unmonitored? hell no... ...a VM of the 9x series is pointless since DOS shines on real hardware where i can pick and poke and take full advantage of the machine... i dont have a VM of 9x or DOS/3.11 for that very reason, its not real hardware so there is no use for it...

as for 'just running winmx' i wouldnt use a VM for that simply because a) i dont want to waste that much ram for a single app and b) its an old insecure version of windows that i wouldnt want connected to the net 24/7... i use wine to run winmx because linux receives nearly daily updates and security patches to its various components...

Quote
After reading my words to Stripes above I had the feeling I might have been a bit harsh on him because he was after all proferring a  reasonable route towards freedom from issues as opposed to the convulted routes many of us take, I suspect it was simply because I felt  he was  leaving little wiggle room for me to do my own thing that I turned up the heat a tad in return, If your reading this Stripes my apologies, I enjoy your informative and helpful posts here as I am sure do many others.

you definitely sounded more than a little miffed but my point is, there is no need to walk on eggshells in such a way with windows as long as you keep it up to date... firefox and other modern browsers (opera happens to be my favorite) ask to activate flash so you can have that installed... as long as you keep up with updates... if you are using IE... well... thats a different batch of nightmares... i just hope you are using version 11 since its the most standards compliant... email is also something you wouldnt have to worry about as long as you kept up with updates to your email client .. or used webmail .. gmail scans all attachments for viruses.. its quite nice.. but if gmail is off the table for you due to privacy concerns there is a pay-for service called hushmail (hushmail.com) that is specifically geared to those who want strong privacy and security policies. 

updates from microsoft are not the big bad scary things that so many seem to think they are.. they are microsofts way of keeping your machine usable for whatever you want... and if you are paranoid about viruses in any software you download there is always virustotal.com, a service that will test files against multiple antivirus products...  and if you have at least 4gigs of ram avast antivirus will run happily and comfortably in the background keeping an eye out for the nasties..

you can use your machine for whatever you want on an in-band version of windows... windows is constantly attacked but microsoft constantly replaces the panes of glass in the window with stronger ones so that the rocks are least likely to get through... and all it takes is to leave automatic updates turned on... thats all im saying... microsoft wants to stay in business after all...

if the problem is with cashflow around $200 will get you a machine capable of modern feats (granted not grand ones.. this is not i7 money after all) with a modern version of windows... set aside an envelope and save your spare cash till you have enough.. the machine will come with windows so you wont have to splurge the $300 just for the OS... if you need more graphical power around $40 (no joke) will get you a card (make sure its a fan cooled card not a passive one) that has around a gig of vram and can handle things like webgl...

Offline Bearded Blunder

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Re: What Operating System Are you Using With WinMx In 2017 ?
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2017, 03:19:27 am »
and i like my install of linux mint... i prefer linux.... i also have installs of various old copies of windows in VMs 'just for fun' as well... but there is no way i would leave them connected to the internet unmonitored even if its just the VM that might break because thats just as real of a 'fix' as if it were on real hardware..
I've been tempted to give LMDE a spin, not overly enthused by their use of debian-multi-media though.. tends to cause issues.

As to "unattended" it's only when I boot my laptop to Linux, primarily for chat purposes, not unattended.. if a 9x vm got attacked and messed up in such a scenario, it's the work of seconds to either revert snapshot, or paste a spare copy of the .vhd in, no hassle at all, though it's never happened.  Waste loads of RAM? 9x will run happily in 32 Meg, really happy in 64.. now compare that to Opera...

updates from microsoft are not the big bad scary things that so many seem to think they are.. they are microsofts way of keeping your machine usable for whatever you want...
You weren't the one who just spent 2 days getting Windows Update to unbreak itself.. "For security" only to spend the next entire day troubleshooting broken (wired) networking..  with no connectivity on that machine.. because Microsoft are so brilliant turning the W10 userbase into beta testers.. for W10 Enterprise users... Instead of testing their half stitched patches themselves BEFORE they break people's installs. GRRRRRR!  Useable because of updates? PAH!

you can use your machine for whatever you want on an in-band version of windows...
I can use old versions too.. it's my hardware. and my time if it breaks... and nowhere in the licence does it say I have to stop using it because M$ don't want to patch it anymore.  I'm not daft enough to put something unsupported in my DMZ or forward it's SMB ports, I know how to take a little care with these things.. Sure I wouldn't advise others to run same, but if it suits me to do so I will myself.

It's not "can't afford hardware" my main machine is old, but adequate, Core2Quad with 16 Gig of RAM.  The exercise is "Because I CAN" not "Because I need to".


Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall not be disappointed.

Offline White Stripes

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Re: What Operating System Are you Using With WinMx In 2017 ?
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2017, 04:13:23 am »
Quote
The exercise is "Because I CAN" not "Because I need to".
because you can is perfectly fine but personally ive never found the 9x series to be stable enough to keep me sane... which is why i use it on retro hardware for the DOS that rides under it... w98 with usb 2.0 support is great cos i can use data stored on thumb drives in fasttracker 2....

had i known more about nt4 back in the day it would have been a side slide from the horrid world of 95 to nt4 rather than up to just as glitchy 98...

Quote
You weren't the one who just spent 2 days getting Windows Update to unbreak itself..
no.. it took me a week to get it working again on win7 all the while svchost.exe sitting at 100% cpu... so i know the pain of when windows screws up....

as far as win10 goes i refuse to touch it... win7 is the last version of windows i plan to ever use... i dont like the confused tablet/desktop of 8 and 8.1 and the spyware of 10... hence linux...

Quote
It's not "can't afford hardware" my main machine is old, but adequate, Core2Quad with 16 Gig of RAM.
i was mainly aiming that at ghostship cos of how long he held onto windows xp... xp can run on hardware that vista+ cant...

my main computer is 'old' as well.. core2duo with 8gigs of ram... suits me fine... it was about $200 a few years back tho and shipped with windows 7 which is why i said to save up... since there are quite a few pentium 4s running xp still in use out there... 

Quote
because Microsoft are so brilliant turning the W10 userbase into beta testers..
ive intentionally avoided versions of windows that were still in mainline as apposed to extended support for this reason.. i didnt touch xp till sp3 was common... didnt use win2k till sp4... and windows 10... again ... linux... i have no use for windows anymore since ive found all the software equivalents i used on windows for linux... i quit windows 7 when the free win10 upgrade was being advertised in the system tray...

Quote
Waste loads of RAM? 9x will run happily in 32 Meg, really happy in 64..
64? works fine till you need to run anything with substantial weight to it... my real-hardware 98 machine has 512mb of ram....

Offline Bearded Blunder

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Re: What Operating System Are you Using With WinMx In 2017 ?
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2017, 08:51:13 pm »
Quote from: White Stripes
...personally ive never found the 9x series to be stable enough to keep me sane... which is why i use it on retro hardware for the DOS that rides under it... w98 with usb 2.0 support is great cos i can use data stored on thumb drives in fasttracker 2....

had i known more about nt4 back in the day it would have been a side slide from the horrid world of 95 to nt4 rather than up to just as glitchy 98...
9x is stable enough for what I plan to use it for, tends to fall over if you have too much running at once, namely a lighter compatibility layer than xp mode on 7, it may be a little glitchy, but I could say the same and more so about my experience with WINE.

For DOS I do that "properly" DOS 6.22, which has better memory management than DOS 7.1 from W98, if you configure it.  Back in the day I did go sideways from 98 to NT4, and then ran that as my daily driver for years till lack of USB support (mass storage can be done, but little else) and a printer failure finally drove me to Win2K, always found it rock solid..

Quote from: White Stripes
ive intentionally avoided versions of windows that were still in mainline as apposed to extended support for this reason.. i didnt touch xp till sp3 was common... didnt use win2k till sp4... and windows 10... again ... linux... i have no use for windows anymore since ive found all the software equivalents i used on windows for linux... i quit windows 7 when the free win10 upgrade was being advertised in the system tray...
I don't have that luxury, I'm the "PC Help Desk" for multiple family members who're on the W10 gravy train.. And they've relocated and altered enough things, and keep doing so, that I pretty much have to run it to keep current enough to be much help to them.  When M$ drop support for 10 on their older hardware I might try shifting them to Linux.. though I've yet to find a "Winddowsy Enough" Debian spin ... as for the 'buntu variants, I just don't like and thus won't support those.  Other bases are more of a learning curve than I want, or just too much effort (looking @ Arch and Gentoo).  :walk:

Going to newer Windows versions is something I do when driven by "I need this new feature"  so USB printer drove NT4 > 2K, Remote Desktop 2K > XP, Large (>2TiB) disk support XP > 7, and ability to find settings to help family 7 > 10.  In terms of the user interface and general experience everything has been a downgrade since 2K.

Quote from: White Stripes
64? works fine till you need to run anything with substantial weight to it... my real-hardware 98 machine has 512mb of ram....
Hardly an issue running WinMX or Robo for chat, even adding WinAmp so music reporting works.. this is a pure compatibility layer Linux has plenty good software for other tasks, but WinMX under WINE really SUCKS.
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Offline White Stripes

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Re: What Operating System Are you Using With WinMx In 2017 ?
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2017, 11:22:26 pm »
Quote
but WinMX under WINE really SUCKS.
ive never had this problem... winmx works under wine just fine for me (im running under wine right now)... ...i guess you could count the odd scrolling bug in the channel list as a slight cosmetic problem but other than that it works...

Quote
For DOS I do that "properly" DOS 6.22,
no fat32 kills the old dos for me.. freedos however... thats a different story if im going 'pure' dos...
..also part of the need for win98 is the usb mass storage support and the driver for the DS-XG midi sound chip... that computer makes a lot of sound...


Quote
I don't have that luxury, I'm the "PC Help Desk" for multiple family members who're on the W10 gravy train..
i lucked out in an infant-death harddrive situation to get a family member to run the same flavor of mint i am... ...another family member is still on windows 7 disliking the look and spyware aspect of win10 so when win7 goes out of band it will be mint for them too... ...im truly sorry you are the family tech support for win10 machines :(  im guessing you keep headache meds on hand?

Quote
drove me to Win2K, always found it rock solid..
win2k was my favorite windows flavor as well... much better than windows xp... ...might be fun to install it in a vm just to see it running again...

Quote
even adding WinAmp so music reporting works.
i quit using winamp back when aol bought nullsoft... i still see the 'look' of it in audacious tho... but when i was still on windows i started using xmplay from un4seen.com
music reporting can also work with foobar2000 with the winamp spam plugin... something i talked josh into when he was making the newest (and last?) version of southern lights...

Quote
Remote Desktop 2K > XP
i used software called 'tightVNC' for remote desktops... it didnt care what version of windows it was on...

Quote
Going to newer Windows versions is something I do when driven by "I need this new feature"
i always hacked in new features so i only updated at end-of-life.. when security bugs would no longer be fixed...
but overall im just glad im not using windows anymore and the only windows app i run consistently is winmx. 
demoscene prods from pouet.net that have no linux ports being the other thing i use wine for... fr-025 'the popular demo' works quite well ;)

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