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WinMX World :: Forum  |  WinMX Help  |  Fake Files  |  Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels
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Author Topic: Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels  (Read 5729 times)

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Offline Majic_ShareAll

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Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels
« on: February 02, 2007, 06:48:27 am »
The biggest problem is Sharing ones DL directory, Which should have been programmed out of WinMx.
Even for simple privacy, do you really want to show the world what you are actually DLing, if anyone happens to browse your files.

Permitting the DL directory in the Share Library also gives a false statistic to who-is, leechammer and other moniters, as the files that are DLing, but not available to anyone, are counted as files shared. 
Some of the leeches out there have nothing in their shared folder but active DLs, and a couple of unnamed pictures.

Shared Folders, if put aside from the system folder, would then be filled with useful files, and wouldn't need to have their indexes revised and uploaded so often. 

I transfer my DLed files to a folder (done), then inspect the files.  If they need to be renamed or labeled, then I do that, or if they are just bad, fake or unneeded files, then just delete them.  After that is done, I move the files, that I want to share, to the Share Library directories; so out of the 1,000 or so files I do share, there is no BS!

When the DL dir is also the shared dir, after the files have been received, they automatically start uploading, so if they are mislabeled or fake, the user is now just adding another bad copy into the system.  By changing the system, the only fake files out there would then be intentional ones, rather then good users accidentally adding to the problem.

Unfortunately, WinMx auto-shares the DL dir by default, which should not only be changed, but WinMX should program out the use of the DL dir from the program, so that it can't be shared.  (I hope their are still some winMx programmers out there that can do that.

Majic_ShareAll

Tip:  If you share and DL from different Drive and or Channels, your system will work smoother, as inflow and outflow wouldn't collide or have to wait for each other.

Offline indefile

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Re: Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2007, 12:14:04 pm »
winmx does NOT automaticly shares the DL folder, it only shares the folders you choose to have in your library.
(emule does always share the incoming file folder). there can be reasons to share some incompletes, so if you use winmx 3 54 you can put the incoming folder in your libraray, choose to unshare and select the ones you do want to share. as soon as an unshared incomplete finishes it becomes shared, so if you are affraid that people may have a glimps of what you download so different of the files  :shock: you share, don´t put the incoming folder in your library   

i

KM

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Re: Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2007, 02:27:44 pm »
users who do move downloads when they are finished also know how to set winmx to share that other directory instead

users who don't know how to set the shared directory generally also don't know about moving files etc

up to 3.53 defaulted to sharing the download directory for that reason, 3.54 instead defaults to sharing nothing and just pesters you to add a directory to the library every time you start it instead

Offline SamSeeSam

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Re: Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2007, 05:52:32 pm »
Plus I presume that you can always unshare the incoming directory. I do not think winmx will force you to do so. I am not all that knowlegdeable about versions other than 3.54beta4 so I don't know for 100% sure if winmx does force you to do so (but 99.99% sure that it will not force you to do so), but thus far, no one has ever said anything about such an enforcement, so i presume a no.

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Offline Majic_ShareAll

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Re: Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2007, 12:40:18 am »
I have always been able to unshare my DL folder with all versions.   My post is not on the technical of how to do it, but rather whether or not it should be done be default.

Where KM mentioned that many don't understand the concept 'offhand' this is a minor issue, as the users would learn the correct way to share files, otherwise they wouldn't  have anything to share till they set up their library.

The main point is to have a better control of the files that are uploaded, as all the fake and mislabeled files the users share just waste network bandwidth and time. 

Responxible WinMx users should set aside and define their upload Libraries and the DL dir should never be in it.  Then the fakers and leeches would stand out.

Also the WinMx program should not count the incompletes in the files shared count, as they aren't shared till their done.  I have seen leeches with over 100 files 'shared' but only have incompletes and active DLs.

In fact there is no need to 'RUSH' to share DLed files, without first inspecting them.  So you get a file and it is a day or so before you inspect and decide to share - Big Deal! the network will survive! and there will be that many fewer bad files out there.

As for "Being afraid" that others will see what I DL ... this is a matter of privacy and I personally don't feel like sharing that information with anybody who might just care to take a look, nor do I want to have my program and DL useage so easily incpected.

If  the program were re-written to imlement this concept and new or inexperienced user were properly informed, the network efficiency would probably increase by 30 to 40%

Offline ]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.

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Re: Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2007, 04:37:36 am »
following on from Majic_ShareAlls words of wisdom

CHECK YOUR DOWNLOADS B4 YOU SHARE

save everyone the pain of d/loading the same crappy files over and over :D
      

Offline Neutron

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Re: Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2007, 11:09:29 am »
Mostly when you download something, you open it when it's finished. If it's rubbish, you delete it.
I don't think an average user would care about moving files, there are a few, but there are also many greedy users who only think of themselves.
Only frontcode has the source code of WinMX, so there is no way anyone but them can edit WinMX anyway.
MX does let you choose what you want to share and what you don't want to share, and I think the system is good the way it is now. A user who doesn't want the incoming folder shared, can just unshare it, those who don't care, can leave it shared. Leaving the incoming folder shared, means that users who start out with 0 files get something to share as they download the files, instead of never sharing anything.

Offline Max™

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Re: Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2007, 12:11:42 pm »
i have an incoming folder seperate from my shared folder, and once they are checked, then they can go in shared folder, i seen some people with say 20 files, out of them  19 incomplete's and 1 unnamed pic, but what he is u/l isnot shown in his shared, like its deliberate to look like hes a sharer when its only junk.
also i have seen in a movie room a message from a bot every 10 mins to share all incomplete's as this increases you file numbers, (why)



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Offline KittyBass

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Re: Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2007, 02:21:01 pm »
I was actually in a chat room the other day and this leech actually jumped on MY case about me saying something regarding people not sharing.And no one else in the room backed me up. As far as fake files, yes they´re irritating. Say for instance, I wanted to download a TV programme. Something ´else´ with those initials appeared in my files. Not at all what I wanted! LOL
Anyway, I do leave the partial DL´s because I don´t mind myself downloading something that is only a small percentage because I know whenever I find another user or that same person again, my DL is going to a lot quicker. I have the fake file patch now so I havent had any problems with bogeys.

Offline Max™

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Re: Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2007, 04:38:25 pm »
Hi Kitty,
sorry to hear you was on the receiving end of someone not very nice,
it would never happen in my room because i will always defend the ladies & visitors in my room, leeches are like perverts to me, they want want want and will insult people if they don't get it.



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Offline KittyBass

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Re: Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2007, 06:18:59 pm »
I mean this said they were in a part of the world where it was illegal to share files..well, hello..isn´t downloading just as illegal whereever they are? If everyone had that attitude then there would be no one to share with. I cannot stand leeches and even worse are the ones who use tricks to hide the fact that they are.

KM

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Re: Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2007, 08:41:38 pm »
actually downloading is legal in just about every country

and as for uploading... in actual fact if you are breaking the law, as is your ISP, as the places where it is illegal it is illegal due to the transmission, making them just as guilty... aka don't worry about it

however the entire attitude of people that expect everyone else to share files with them but they don't want to share with others... seriously, who the hell do they think they are that they have a right to take without giving, and everyone else must give to them? those types of people don't deserve the oxygen that they are stealing and depriving decent people of

Offline KittyBass

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Re: Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2007, 07:05:41 pm »
What I just found funny is that my bf used to play in this Irish band years ago and they had recorded several CD´s and a video. Years back they won some category for this certain song I think on MP3.com that my bf sang lead. They own the copyrights and they aren´t fussed about sharing of their music on the internet even though they still make money off the CDs. I keep finding that certain track mislabelled as being sung by a totally different Irish singer. I downloaded it a few times just to see for myself and it is most definatley my beloved. I found that with several other of their stuff. I think he´s actually hurt that after 10 years of hard work with this band someone else is getting credit. LOL.

Offline ninjamynci

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Re: Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2007, 09:00:18 pm »
winmx does NOT automaticly shares the DL folder, it only shares the folders you choose to have in your library.
(emule does always share the incoming file folder). there can be reasons to share some incompletes, so if you use winmx 3 54 you can put the incoming folder in your libraray, choose to unshare and select the ones you do want to share. as soon as an unshared incomplete finishes it becomes shared, so if you are affraid that people may have a glimps of what you download so different of the files  :shock: you share, don´t put the incoming folder in your library  

i

I agree that not sharing incompletes is the proper thing to do. Not necessarily due to what you're downloading (if you're ashamed to be dl'ing it, then you probably shouldn't be getting it!), just because I pride myself on only sharing quality files that I've checked all the way through and am sure are fit to be shared. I did, however, get a really nasty message (foul language, insults, the works) for NOT sharing incompletes. Better still it was from someone in my queue rather than someone i was downloading from. As I said to him, if you're that unhappy with the files I share, I'll be pleased to spare you any further trauma and ignore you!

Offline Majic_ShareAll

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Re: Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2007, 11:47:51 pm »
My main reason for introducing this post was to:
 1: Get serious users to understand how to make the system work better
 2: For those same users to influence the programmers at WinMx to use the protocols as an unchangeable defaults.

 Attention put on 'fear' or 'shame' that others might see what I am downloading is silly as well as misses the point.  The point there is privacy; but even if someone were ashamed of what they were DLing, well whose business is it anyhow, besides that person.  If they want a file, and don't want others to know - fine; as their viewpoint has no effect on the overall topic "Quality in the DLing system by reducing fakes and leeches".

If someone is determined to be a Leech, I am sure they can always find a way to circumvent the system.  Why decide to be a leech;  who knows and who cares.  But for many users, if they realized that they could not show unuseable files, and not post unverified files (both of which tend to be in the DL folder) and that because of that, they were being blocked for not sharing or not sharing enough, then they might take the time to create a library of shared folders, that other could benefit from.  Generally speaking, if you give people the opportunity to take pride in what they are doing, most will readily do that;  especially if they understand the why and how of it.

KittyBass:  Where you mentioned you 'don't mind partial DLs, as you will get the rest elsewhere', philosphically I agree with you, but technically, incomplete files (that are active) don't upload; so you are not going to get a piece of that file till it completes - at which point its name and will be changed, and so you will get the notice 'file not found'.  So by displaying incomplete files, the sharers are actually lying (maybe not intentionally) as none of the incompletes can upload.  (even if they could, they would still be unverified).

There is another concern with Privacy of DLs and that is security.  People complain on the internet, when data gathering sites collect information on them;  the information usually consisting of where they have been and what files they are looking at, but when they are sharing their DL folder, that is exactly what they are doing.  Further, as for the agencies that are attempting to expose the 'crimes' of file sharing, if they can't see what is being DLed, then half of their evidence not available.

To see that someone is offering a file to share, in itself is not proof of wrong doing, as it is only intent.  Recording that someones upload que is filled is also not proof, as who knows what is in the que.  The only proof then that could be gained is to actually DL the file while documenting where it came from, which would still be hard to prove if the 'culprit' mentioned actually fully UPLed all of the complete file to the agent.

By sharing the DL folder, an agent could browse any user and see proof of DLing (which is more then just intent).  There are more ways to look at this subject like what is intent, and when a violation has occurred, being that any file that is not a full legitimate file, from a single source, may not even hit the legal standard (like a drug dealer selling sugar can't be prosecuted for dealing drugs).  At any rate, why make it easier for agents to be able to track both sides of a P2P system?

Two ideas for quality I use:
* For all of my 'smutty' stuff I share, I prefix the names with x, xx, xxx_ and the folders are named XXX.
By default, most browsing is done in alpha order, so these files and folders are listed at the end of my offerings.  This enables viewers who might be offended with these files to avoid them, as they are clearly marked.

* When I begin to DL a large file, and when I can, I inspect it;  if that file is not what it is supposed to be I clear it from my que, then re-title it, stating true file name without changing the hash.  I then  copy the incomplete file to my shared folder, so it will then list and inform others of the true file.

  In my DL folder , if I still want the file, I just leave it or delete it.  When you go back into WinMX, just reload incomplete files, to get the item to re-display and re-que.

 I also use this technique to rename active files, with more user friendly names (just make sure the incompete prefix and hash suffix are not changed; __incomplete section_|filename|_hash section .ext).

Micromecca

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Re: Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2007, 12:32:30 am »
KittyBass:  Where you mentioned you 'don't mind partial DLs, as you will get the rest elsewhere', philosphically I agree with you, but technically, incomplete files (that are active) don't upload; so you are not going to get a piece of that file till it completes - at which point its name and will be changed, and so you will get the notice 'file not found'.  So by displaying incomplete files, the sharers are actually lying (maybe not intentionally) as none of the incompletes can upload.  (even if they could, they would still be unverified).

As soon as you start a download on WinMX, if your incoming folder is shared, whether u have 1% or 100% of that file u can actively upload it from the minute it starts through to after it is complete, this is managed on WinMX by the file HASH, how much is completed or the file name are not factors here, and the users are most certainly not 'lying' by doing this

 :?

Offline Majic_ShareAll

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Re: Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2007, 02:04:33 am »
Î¥Îî¢rôÎ¥Îꢢâ: Actually, I think you are in error, per my experiences.  Incomplete files Do get listed in the search and browse windows, but although I have que'd them, thousands of times, I have never seen one actually upload (in the last 4 years).

WinMx doesn't auto store DLed data parts to their component files, as some is stored in incoming buffers; so the file listed (if actively qued) is an open file and would probably trigger an 'application sharing violation'.  It is not even a good idea to preview files in this state.  I would even guess that interfering with an open file might lead to a corrupted data stream and increase cpu usage (tracking a 3 way stream).

Now I didn't write these programs, and can't say exactly how they are programmed to work, but as far as I can tell, when the file is complete, it is renamed (minus the hash).  At that point the 'users share library' has to update with the new file name and get the correct hash, or at least confirm it.  This then has to be updated to the primary servers indexes upline, for filename, location and hash.

During this time the DLer, who found the file, grouped by hash, but que'd to it by location and filename;  is now connected to a file that no longer exists (after rename), and won't be till the timed search reacquires the file, through the primary indexes.  The old wrong file name would not time out till a search/confirm invalidates it (using up resourses for each confirm till deleted from que).

So just because you can link to a file, doesn't mean you will get any of it.  For all practical purposes, then the file was never really available (again, per my experience) and even if it were, why take a chance with it;  which really has nothing to do with this post's intention of quality and avoiding fakes.

That you put your attention on that I used the word 'lying' (as an accussation) is curious as I only implied it as the effective result, but in the case of leeches, it actually is a lie.

If what I said exposes the way you operate, and as such,  you find insulting, it was not my intention, unless of course you are a leech, then I don't care.

Offline Bearded Blunder

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Re: Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2007, 02:40:55 am »
inactive incompletes will u/l & dl which *can* give you a start on them.. if someone has part of the file... but i don't share them it's particularly a problem with exe .zip files (majority of my activity) that they can't be verified as working and/or virus free till complete..  even with movies the chance is higher of mislabels as they won't have been precviewed by the sharer
Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall not be disappointed.

Micromecca

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Re: Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2007, 06:58:15 pm »
Î¥Îî¢rôÎ¥Îꢢâ: Actually, I think you are in error

Whether you think that or not is irrelevant, the fact is WinMX was written in such a way to allow incomplete files to be uploaded regardless of the filename.

The abilty to share incomplete files on WinMX is one of its best features, it enables new large files to be spread across the network quickly without having to wait for your source(s) to complete downloading it themselves.

I could also change a complete file name 1,000 times over and your client could still locate me as a source for it.

Offline SamSeeSam

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Re: Different sharing system sets - to reduce fakes & mislabels
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2007, 07:02:48 pm »
Uploading of incompletes depends on if or if not you have shared your downloads directory lol

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