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WinMX World :: Forum  |  Technical  |  Protocol Discussion  |  this may be completely useless but...
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Author Topic: this may be completely useless but...  (Read 1588 times)

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Offline White Stripes

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this may be completely useless but...
« on: October 02, 2008, 09:17:53 am »
...the chatters suggested i post it... the primary target of this post is ghostship/QS and eagle... (those where the ones that i was told were the best to read it)

note: due to injury im going to have a hard time writing lenthy replys so i ask others to please have patience with me...

note2: this is just a musing/pondering im not entirely sure it would be possible or even relevent...

Quote
{snip}
«« Ürßàñ Plôûghßóÿ »»  ...
«« Ürßàñ Plôûghßóÿ »»  when u multisource you're looking for other complete or somewhat complete files from other sources
«« Ürßàñ Plôûghßóÿ »»  think linear crazy
«« Ürßàñ Plôûghßóÿ »»  like u trying to put together a book page by page = downloading from mx
½crazy but how are the slices of pie.... so to speak... handed out when downloading from multiple sources
«« Ürßàñ Plôûghßóÿ »»  they just add to speed of current download but only at the point of where u are incomplete
½crazy and i know its linear... what im trying to do is see if there is a way to make it non-linear without breaking the wpn
½crazy emulated 'chunks'
«« Ürßàñ Plôûghßóÿ »»  idk
«« Ürßàñ Plôûghßóÿ »»  not as far as my understanding of how mx works
«« Ürßàñ Plôûghßóÿ »»  i leave be its different systems ...
«« Ürßàñ Plôûghßóÿ »»  and i like each for its merits and weaknesses
½crazy was thinking of a way to add encryption on 3rd party clients while still allowing the real client to function
«« Ürßàñ Plôûghßóÿ »»  dunno
½crazy on the forum the idea of udp packets has been thrown aroud but that method seems like trying to kill a fly with a shotgun.. (too much overhead)
{snip}
IceDragon  did crazy resolve his issue
{snip}
IceDragon  what is it you dont understand ?
IceDragon  as it looks like ploughboy answered most if not all of it
{snip}
½crazy ice; im trying to think of a basic way to make a encyption protocol (for the data tranfers) that can ride -inside- the preexsisting wpn... so as to be completely backwards compatible with the original client but be encrypted when using 3rd party clients... basically im just trying to get a rough idea... as even a 'standard' 3rd party client is a ways away from being fully realised...
Savage_Blades_MxM_ isnt WinNY something like that ?
½crazy sir moon put forth the idea of using UDP for key exchange since the hash feild in the wpn is fixed length
½crazy but that seems a bit overkill
½crazy cos it would need another fully open port for the keys
½crazy so i thought of using the
½crazy ..multisource capabilities of winmx to ride the encryption on
½crazy a 'fake' second source for the key and hashed data chunks
½crazy problem is that winmx uses streams instead of chunks so it would have to trick the old clients into thinking the encrypted connect was a client to ignore but not ignore the 'legacy' data transfer method
{snip}
IceDragon  what purpose would any of this serve
½crazy same thing bittorrent encryption serves... get around nasty isps and now the new 'pro-ip' act recently passed in the US
½crazy after 'pro-ip' even GS is a bit leery that winmx doest encrypt data streams
IceDragon  cant stop nasty isp,s bit torrents encryption wont work this time next year
½crazy O.o
½crazy what have they got up their sleves now?
IceDragon  the software isps use to throttle is envolveing like everything else  if they wanted even now they could throttle torrents simply because its encrypted
IceDragon  plus america has a encryption law nothing stronger then 128 bit
IceDragon  which is pretty easy to break on the fly
½crazy you sure about that 128bit thing?
IceDragon  im not knocking your ideas as any idea to improve winmx must be looked at seriously
IceDragon  yes
IceDragon  which is why all online transactions are 128
½crazy heh... and here i was going to use 2048bit DES
IceDragon  you could use higher but that may attract the attention of hom,eland secruity
IceDragon  best person to talk to is qs and eagle
IceDragon  as your ideas are worth looking @
{end of line}


Offline GhostShip

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Re: this may be completely useless but...
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2008, 09:56:12 pm »
I have been looking into this topic myself for some time Stripes, I have identified a few options that make it possible to utilise the existing networks infrastructure to carry new method packets inside older message formats, of course I,m not going to divulge those here but they do exist.

There are currently two lines of thought on the encrypted file transfer option, one is to add this to the patch so its done outside of mx and mx never sees the encryption layer or the other is to add such features to a new client , as you know that is not something we have in hand atm and no doubt at such a time we will have a whole new set of ideas to chew over  :)

The basic operation of winmx is to take 2k audio or 4k vid chunks at a time in sequencial order
this is great for previewing material but useless for beating a throttle, creating a temp array to reorder the segments would be a small help for privacy but still leaves one major aspect that I havent manged to theorise around completely yet, the size of a file is not often something detectable by the throttlers but the type, port and duration of the transfer are what trigger the throttling, so just creating a solid wall of encrypted traffic may mean we will still see no positive effects.
We escape much of the heavy bit torrent throttling due to the limited number of concurrent nodes in use at any time however we need to ensure that we cover as many of these bases as possible in a mutatable (or psuedo mutatable) fashion.
 
If you have a theory you want to put forward or need more info on the existing method of transfer please feel free to either discuss this here or join the core developement section and post it there where I think it will reach the intended audience.

Let me know if you wish to join that section as its invite only and drama free so far.




Offline White Stripes

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Re: this may be completely useless but...
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2008, 10:09:22 am »
Quote
The basic operation of winmx is to take 2k audio or 4k vid chunks at a time in sequencial order

ahh.. so it does send chunks..

Quote
creating a temp array to reorder the segments would be a small help for privacy but still leaves one major aspect that I havent manged to theorise around completely yet

and it seems the 'cant see the forest for the trees' method is in the air too ;)

Quote
so just creating a solid wall of encrypted traffic may mean we will still see no positive effects.

wouldnt have to be 'solid'... *g*

Quote
If you have a theory you want to put forward or need more info on the existing method of transfer please feel free to either discuss this here or join the core developement section and post it there where I think it will reach the intended audience.

Let me know if you wish to join that section as its invite only and drama free so far.

well... im honored by the invite but i dont have the programming skills needed to really put forth seriously usefull infos... tho i wouldnt mind knowing more about how MX transfers work and what other ideas have been put forth so i dont end up 'reinventing the wheel'

if you'll have me id love to join in...

(since you wrote this ive already come up with a couple of new ideas... but knowing my luck theyve already been thought of too)

WinMX World :: Forum  |  Technical  |  Protocol Discussion  |  this may be completely useless but...
 

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