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WinMX World :: Forum  |  Discussion  |  Think Tank  |  How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?
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Author Topic: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?  (Read 13658 times)

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Offline Savage Blades

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Re: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2010, 06:13:21 pm »
OH !!
And let's face it until THIS



Becomes something like THIS



Nothing much will change !

My opinions, are mine !
They may, or may not reflect the views and opinions of other WinMX World Forum members !!
DJ Hire

Offline GhostShip

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Re: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2010, 07:34:57 pm »
It really does seem as though major work will be required and a lot of time spent making things safer when all one guy needs to do to fix the whole mess is disappear and reappear using the community patch connection architecture, perhaps the idea that there are thousands of users all willing to do as you say or be blocked at the peer caches has some power crazed charm over at the pie info team and Sabre himself ? 

I think its time to get a petition going, I wouldnt want anyone from pie info claiming that I was the only user who complained about their aiding attacks on the network by their actions (or rather lack of them). Let them see what the rank and file users think .

Offline White Stripes

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Re: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2010, 02:49:46 am »
Quote
EDit2: by good side .. i mean .. non japanese

awww but i liked connecting to random places in japan ;)

Quote
what about the ppl that are using fxs server that require the host file wouldnt that in effect render there server unable to connect or would it just look at winmxworld caches?

step one; remove all winmx entries from hosts file...

step two; drop http://download.winmxconex.com/ws2_32.dll into fxs directory...

step three; install peerblock or peerguardian 2 and use the blocklist at http://www.winmxworld.com/files/block_list.txt
(note: for best results use only winmx blocklist unless you are using bittorrent or other p2p in which case i recommend also adding the nexus23 list from iblocklist.com .... dont use any of the blutack lists)

...has the same effect as the community patch... (works the same for winmx itself too but the update bar doesnt show and its a bit breakneck)

...least it worked like that at one point in time (can someone verify this? its been a while)...

Offline Joshua203

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Re: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2010, 04:48:50 am »
by now i m quite sure you know every traffic sign they got, funny how they refuse to see our STOP sign Stripes LMAO
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Offline Blitzen

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Re: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2010, 05:05:11 am »
@ stripes   also check out the Primary Threats blocklist at iblocklist.com it is reported as being "well maintained"   ;) and i think Peerblock has pretty much replaced Peerguardian 2.

Offline GhostShip

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Re: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2010, 08:52:45 am »
Using any other blocklisting method will help protect the network only if the correct wmw blocklist is used, however it wont stop the rain of fake file listings pouring in as Savage Blades already mentioned, but it will deny your resources to a network attacker .

I havent heard from anyone over at pie info folks so it looks to me as though that confirms that they intend to do nothing and continue to damage the WPN, I hope in the future folks remember who it was that attempted to allow them to use the network safely and with privacy and who simply where too power crazed to give up their damaging operation.

This is a dark day for all users.


Offline Blitzen

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Re: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2010, 08:39:19 pm »
I have just seen the pathetic blocklist used by pie patch.info  users   theres next to no anit p2p groups in it but loads of proxys ip.  No kind of protection for anyone using it!!!


http://files.sabmx.net/pg2/block.txt

Offline wonderer

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Re: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2010, 10:28:27 pm »
I'm not going to say much about mxpie.info, the fact I'm here tells enough.

About winmx4u I can tell it is a site of Raps and in no way under control of Sabre or mxpie.info
The lies and nonsense on that site are at least misleading but how much I would like to say it is not, it is out of the reach of the mxpie.info dictator.

As far as I can oversee the problem and think of a solution, the only way to totally block out non-dll patch users is to block these users as wel in the login to the network (cacheservers) as in our dll to prevent clients in the network to communicate between the protected and the unprotected network.

Right, that means deviding the network in two parts, the part where you are flooded and risking being logged and the part where the rather secure filters prevent flooding though the filters will be less effective if the flooders are blocked out :) nothing to filter by lack on flooder.

It is not what we want, but do we have a choice?

Offline White Stripes

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Re: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2010, 10:32:18 pm »
id like to see the results of such a split.... might actually start using winmx again >.>

Offline GhostShip

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Re: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2010, 11:36:05 pm »
You may well have your wish at last Stripes. For 3 years we here have been refusing to cleave the network despite many heated debates and repeated calls to do so, we believed in one whole community and accepted some of the garbage pie info was dishing into the network as a cost we had just better pay for a quiet life, with the advent of the recent data mining and the near impossibility of blocking such data mining on the network we may no longer have the luxury of our wishes but will be forced into action to keep what we can of the network safe, as I said above to me this is a grave decision to have forced upon us but the alternative is to let you the folks down and do nothing. 

We have one or two further irons in the fire before we are forced to act but we felt it would be best for all users if they know in advance the terrible position pie info are putting us all in, to think we have stayed off the illegal attackers for 5 years to have one single user sell us all out.

Offline Blitzen

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Re: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2010, 06:00:08 am »
It seems this debate has been moved onto their site and needs to be seen !

http://forum.mxpie.info/mxpiehelptopic4498.html


Quote
Some thing you should all know the problem wmw are seeing is not from MXPie users its because KM gave tiny his peercache source code this is how the RIAA are running there own peercache to flood winmx MXPie is more safe then the community patch users.
From Raps


With the passing of the Digital Economy Bill here in the Uk my security is of the up most importance so anything thats going to improve it is going to get my vote hands down!


Offline Pri

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Re: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2010, 06:01:37 am »
Are we going to take a poll, survey or something before we decide to sever the network in two?
Do we have a date set for when/if Sabre doesn't reply we act?

Perhaps we should make this more formal and set a deadline for any proposed action we may take. I think splitting the network for security is a good idea.

Offline Max™

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Re: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2010, 07:48:40 am »
sorry to but in here but...
we did once have a vote/thread as to splitting the network between winmxworld & mxpie,
it turned into an argument and the threat locked i think,

it was mentioned earlier in this thread about blocking sabre's caches, as he already blocks winmxworld caches on his PG2 blocklists,
think thats about covered it,

and no im not making the tea's and coffee's for everyone while you have a poll/vote, last time, someone ate all the jaffacakes



Try Connecting, the attacks may let you http://patch.winmxconex.com/

Offline GhostShip

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Re: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2010, 07:56:36 am »
I,m not setting a fixed date for anything yet Pri simply because the scale of this problem is now beyond my current capacity to deal with it, there are one or two potential life-belts in the pipe-line and I,m exploring those before having to go down a non reversable path, I,m sure all the folks who use the community patch would expect me to do all I can this end before launching into a major set of disruptive changes.

I,m truly unable to understand why anyone at pie info cannot see the danger and seem to care little when its pointed out to them, I,m willing to meet with Raps and prove to his satisfaction that pie info users on primary are the cause of all network flooding but I suspect he will not wish to meet with me, no one likes to be be told they have been damaging the network for all the effort they have been putting in in good faith, however that is the case, If anyone would like to pass on this offer to Raps or any of the rest of the pie info team I,m willing to meet with them at a mutually convenient time and discuss this like adults. This problem is simply too important to be lost in the back and forth of drama and no one will thank those folks who refused to make an effort

Those folks who are technically inclined please read this as a primer on how the network is attacked and understand that the same groups that flood the network are now harvesting search data from the same flooding IP,s, as this data is not able to be disrupted in anyway while they are connected to the network via pie primaries we are currently unable to shut down this problem, this problem is one that cannot exist with a proper blocking solution as the attackers would be unable to connect to the network let alone harvest data or launch their crimnal attacks.

Its frustrating and dis heartening to watch data being gathered in this way whilst being unable to do anything about it because of other folks ignorance of how the network operates, I,m sure anyone on primary with a tcp viewer can see Tiny has nothing to do with the 38 IP currently banging at every primary door and we all know these attacks started 5 years ago but now with the added twist of data mining.

http://www.winmxworld.com/tutorials/fake_file_info.html

Next I suppose I,ll be said to be responsible for all the flooding  :/

Offline Lagerlout666

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Re: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?
« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2010, 08:16:27 am »
Quote
Some thing you should all know the problem wmw are seeing is not from MXPie users its because KM gave tiny his peercache source code this is how the RIAA are running there own peercache to flood winmx MXPie is more safe then the community patch users.

Ha ha ha how did i get dragged into this, but seen as i have i may as well add my voice to the pot.

Winmx has already began to face a new enemy, what our friend raps over their forgot to show was any real facts to support what he was saying, so seen as im the all seeing everything apprently even uttered here. Ill spread a little knowledge in what sharing source code can do. An not in a bad way like that strange little fellow over their has tried to point out.

Below is a picture of a programme i have, KM had one as a web page, it is infact a excellent tool in the search for network abusers and i monitor it daily for any new activity, Hence if you look from time time in the block list you will see searchbots.

As you ca see clearly here, thier is continues searchs from many diffrent IP's, ive obscured them abit but they are all hostfile Primarys. Far too many to ever add to a blocklist, and as you can see are currently out searching normal searchs. This is increasing load on all primarys including ours as they handle the search traffic. As well as undermining our security on the network with any logs they may be keeping

I Can hear the screams oh shit they got me*************

Nahhh the results are the primarys your connected too, you are obscured but obviously such heavey demands on the network cant be tolerated any further, and any possible logging "We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender. "Winston Churchill
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Offline Bluey_412

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Re: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?
« Reply #35 on: May 06, 2010, 08:31:52 am »
... I suspect he will not wish to meet with me, no one likes to be be told they have been damaging the network for all the effort they have been putting in in good faith, however that is the case, If anyone would like to pass on this offer to Raps or any of the rest of the pie info team...

Is that perhaps part of the problem? Is Raps acting in good faith or is HE perhaps on an ego-trip bigger than that of Saber?
What you think is important is rarely urgent
But what you think is Urgent is rarely important

Just remember that...

Offline GhostShip

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Re: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?
« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2010, 08:38:56 am »
I,m giving him the benfit of the doubt Bluey.

For those looking above at the screenshot Tiny has posted please note the sequential nature (A,B,C etc ) of the searches at the top of the page that indicate this is automated activity and not general random searches, these ips are rotated around normally over a 15 minutes period but its common for them to remain on a an unprotected primary for approx 3 hours or longer but not often over 12 hours.

As we speak someone has taken the un-cool step of launching a network attack on Sabres peer caches, I ask that this be stopped please, it helps no one if reasonable discussion is replaced by anarchy.

Offline reef

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Re: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?
« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2010, 08:48:11 am »
5 years and they havent changed a thing and arent even willing to try. It's time for a clean winmx free of the flooders and the rest of the garbage. Personally i support a split at this time, its for the best and a coupla years overdue. The sooner the better.


Offline Blitzen

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Re: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?
« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2010, 08:56:11 am »
While dialogue is on going is there any current available blocklist we can use with peerblock to block the ips of those currently collecting data on the winmx network, maybe the ipfilterX list already contains their ips ?   its just every second we are exposed is more data gathered by the enemy!  i do not like the thought of having my pants down any longer if at all.

Offline GhostShip

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Re: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?
« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2010, 09:19:08 am »
The process they are using to gather data is pretty straight forward Blitzen and I,ll explain it pretty simply so we are all able to see what the problem is and why I,m making it public.

The attackers join an unprotected primary pretending to be a secondary user, they then ask their primary to search for stuff and harvest the resulting information.

As the primaries are WinMX primaries and this is a decentralised network its pretty easy to see that we would be blocking WinMX users and disrupting the primary network in a major way even if it was possible to have a list of all unprotected primary nodes and no such list can exist due to the IP blocks most consumers are on being dynamically allocated ones, thus we are left chasing our tail.

As soon as we find IPs to block they move on to the next unprotected IP leaving us blocking the user who has no clue now why his WinMX is playing drop the primary and reconnecting every couple of minutes. They are normally active on about 10-20 ips at a time thus allowing us to see which nodes have been compromised, but as I make clear above its like chasing fresh air.

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