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Technical => WinMX Client => Topic started by: achilles on September 10, 2010, 01:30:31 pm

Title: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: achilles on September 10, 2010, 01:30:31 pm
I started this thread in hopes that someday someone will further develop the WinMx Client.  This may never happen, but there is always a chance.  WinMx is such a great file sharing client, and would be a huge waste not to continue it's development.   Maybe some day this thread can be used for feedback if someone is able to continue it's development.  So what features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMx?  Mine are below. When i come up with more ideals i will post them.  If you have any ideals then please post them.

1. I would like the ability to share files larger than 2gbs.
2. I would like WinMx to highlight files that i already have completed in my library so i don't download duplicate files.
3. A built in encrypted connection feature.  Like those used in VPN's similar to Xerobank. 

Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: White Stripes on September 10, 2010, 02:14:27 pm
traffic on mx is technically already encrypted... at least all of it but the raw data of the file itself...

id like to see 'sliced' UDP transfers (think ares).. uber strong hashing... ability to disable 'browse'.. and a URI handler..

but the 'what we would like to see in MX' thread has been posted time and time again here lol...
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: RebelMX on September 10, 2010, 04:36:26 pm
Well since Quicks is building and has a alpha stage clone of WinMX (according to him in several threads on this forum) I'm sure he would be happy to hear from the community he is helping for features and requests that are thought out and achievable...right Quicks?!? ;)
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: wonderer on September 10, 2010, 04:59:17 pm
It is funny and sad to see so many wanting new features in a new to build client. I would be pleased if we had at least a client coded with the same capabilities as our current WinMx.That would be a real milestone as very little seem to understand the complexity of this project.
How good the intentions of this thread may be, the discussion has been started over and over many times on this forum and most of us know what we all would like to see added to a new client. It could be seen as another attempt to keep Quicks from building luring him into another chewed out discussion spilling precious time.

If I would be unfriendly which I don't want to be, I would say, shut the F* up and start building :P

Peace
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: White Stripes on September 10, 2010, 10:30:25 pm
'compatible' client first (equal to whats there) ... improved security second ... (always a Good Thingtm) then features added incrimentally to keep compatibility as long as possible while providing a test bed and new platform to ease over to...
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: GhostShip on September 11, 2010, 05:16:34 am
I had hoped to follow Wonders advice and not have to post here but I have decided do so simply to clear one important point up, we do at this stage have something in hand but its not complete and much work needs to go into it, not all functions winmx currently has are in it and I have at no stage said they are, however good progresss is being made every week and as most of you regulars will have noticed I am focusing on this project almost exclusively, we will have something ready in the future and it will work, these are the only two promises I can give at this time and on a note to that end I have had some excellent assistance from two of the other coders who I wont mention by name at this stage, suffice to say all's going well , the theory of operation is all in hand and thus progress is only limited by coding ability, this of course improves with time and I,m sure when the time is right you will all be happy to see a familiar looking friend that we can then build on from in the future.

My thanks to the 2 coders and to you all for your continued patience.
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: achilles on September 11, 2010, 06:23:12 am
Thanks for all of the replys on this post! Please keep up the creative thinking.  I'm only a tech guy, and not a programmer so please look over my ignorance when it comes to coding.  GhostShip, are you saying you are starting from scratch?  I mean, are you working on an entirely new client?  Is WinMx built from C language?   Is there any possibility of the code being made open source?  I wish i was a programmer so i could contribute to the project.  WinMx is my favorite P2P client.  Its so light on resources you can leave it running 24/7/365 without slowing down your machine. I can help with translation in Italian, and Spanish if you need help with that, but other than that i would probably be of no help.
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: GhostShip on September 11, 2010, 08:31:05 pm
Before I answer your questions Achilles let me reassure you that all of the folks and regulars on the site are just folks like yourself who have enjoyed WinMX and want to "give" something back if they are able to, and in that respect you may describe yourself as "only a tech guy" but to your friends in the community I,m sure your much more  :-D

The new client is a from scratch build but it is no longer at the planning stage as I told RebelMX some time ago, it is currently being worked on and that will continue until its finished, some folks in the community are being allowed to see the current src and they act both as pre testers and as a secure off-site storage for the code so we wont lose everything if any of the key developers are hit by a flying washing machine  :lol:

The aim of the project is to duplicate as far as possible the look, feel  and functionality of the existing client so that there are no problems or issues with using it in place of the existing client, you,ll appreciate this is not a simple undertaking but with commitment and time it will be delivered, those who can help at this time have already been asked to and a few more are thinking about doing so, when a few more features are operational I,m sure a few screenshots can be released so you can all see whats going on but for now I ask for patience and goodwill, if others wish to have a go at building a client please feel free to go ahead and do so, our project is not in competition with anyone elses and we hope this will be reflected in the time being spend on getting it all not just working but working well enough to bring a smile to all your faces, when extra help is needed rest assured I for one wont be shy in asking for it and I thank you for your kind offer.
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: achilles on September 12, 2010, 08:15:16 am
Ghostship, was the original source code to the original client lost with the developer when WinMx shut down  in 2007?  Seems like i remember reading somewhere on the net that the code was lost.
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: wonderer on September 12, 2010, 08:34:43 am
The original source code has never been revealed by frontcode so you could say it is lost

Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: mos.def on September 14, 2010, 06:29:08 pm
Has there ever been a push to get coders outside of the existent WinMX Community involved in this project?
Also, how much money has been put into WinMX since it got shut down and what kind of things has it been spent on?

Thanks.
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: GhostShip on September 14, 2010, 07:09:53 pm
Money  :lol:

Theres no money being spent here Mos Def, we are all purely volunteers and thats reflected by the fact that there are no advertisements here to pay for the cost of hosting the site, running peer caches and the sundry expenses most support groups generate, everything that goes on here is facilitated by generous volunteers who offer their services and support to fellow WinMx users, there is no money in the pot because we dont have one.

We have made a few announcements in the shape of news articles on other sites over the years to get coders interested in creating a new client but many of the proposed follow up projects have fallen at the same hurdle even before a line of code was written down, what language to write it in ?

It seems a lot of folks want to use any new client on their linux based machines and unfortunately this has made the pool of coders even smaller than it was already, my own approach is to work towards creating a client that can be used as a model or template by other platform coders in terms of the actual nuts and bolts implemetation and hope that they can work some magic using it as a guide, following this road means we dont have assorted development groups all working on the same problems and reinventing the wheel in isolation, I know some good coders but most have no idea how winmx does its magic and those that do know are not great coders, thus the model method is the way ahead I believe.
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: mos.def on September 14, 2010, 08:46:16 pm
Let me rephrase this one, how much money have you personally invested in WinMX?

That could be legal advice, websites, hardware, peer caches, associated software.
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: GhostShip on September 15, 2010, 12:49:15 am
I,m not sure and tbh if I did know I likely wouldnt say but like the rest of the staff here I have reached into my pocket over the 5 years we have been here, money does not equate to anything however, folks enjoy WinMX and so do I, cost is irrelevant to both myself and to the others who support the WinMX Community, no one is here to make money from fellow users.

Whats on your mind Mos ?
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: wonderer on September 15, 2010, 05:51:04 am
In the years I have been hosting a room among other support for WinMx users, WinMx brought me more than it cost me.
It brought me loads of friends of which I have seen quite a few in real live, not to speak of a rather masive amount of knwledge obout computers, programming, hosting rooms and building websites. I would say it is the real place if you want more than only sharing files.
In my case it is more than 2 years ago I have been downloading files from WinMx, just due to the fact I'm far to busy with the backgroud of WinMx. If you want to know how much mony I have put into WinMx, I don't even want to know.
Keepiing a community alive as we are doing at WinMxWorld is priceless.

Thats my two cents to your question, so you could say it I spent at least two cents :P
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: MinersLantern on September 15, 2010, 07:30:10 am
Search filtering more like the googles have.
AND OR NOT for individual words, complete strings as they are typed between quotes (in that same order) including unicode. I hate when I search for something and get a zillion listings of files that are all in japanese. If I copy chars to attempt to filter that out, WinMX does nothing and they come through anyway. Another related problem in filtering results by the sharers folder names is some of them dont start like this 'C:\Blah\Foo\Filename' they start as '...\Filename' (usually fakes or flooders as far as I can tell, but who knows maybe their on Linux or something). Either way it would be nice to make them go away when desired.
Less interesting but what has been annoying me for years is the way (in the transfers window) that when I use the shift key to select multiple files in the list, it may or may not select the ones I want. Normally it will select some huge amount of files anywhere in the list box according to its mood at that moment. lol. Ive never seen any windows program act like that. WinMX seems to have a mind of its own. If I select 7 files (or sources more accurately) to retry, I want just those 7 to be selected. Not the other 100+ that may be there somewhere in the list box.
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: Bluey_412 on September 15, 2010, 07:51:16 am
use the Ctrl key to get them then, miners, click on 'em one at a time while holding down Ctrl
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: Zénar on September 15, 2010, 10:01:13 pm
Hey Quicks, don't forget I'm here :P

If you need help or a programmer that helps you don't understand something, I can always give you my sources of what I did on ZenMX so far or other sources... :yes:

I really wish that this project will succeed for the future of WinMX.

One thing it would be good to add to the todo list is the IPv6 capability. :)
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: GhostShip on September 16, 2010, 01:01:03 am
I confess to thinking you where studying full time Zenar, rest assured I will call on you for help sooner rather than later  :lol:

Cheers  :-D
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: achilles on September 16, 2010, 06:33:13 am
Is there a max # of files one can share or is there only a max # that can bee seen when browsing a user?    Which ever the answer may be i would like to see those capabilities enhanced.  Also as i stated in an earlier post; i would like to see the ability to share files larger than 2gbs.  I'm seeing some good feedback here.  Keep it up guys.  Don't be impatient with the coders because their doing all this for free.   It will always be like this unless you have an open source code or have funding to have several good programmers involved. 
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: GhostShip on September 16, 2010, 08:22:51 am
The current protocol specifies a maximum of 65535 files which is plenty for most folks any change to that number would mean breaking compatibility with older clients as the field size is set in stone. The browse function is artificially limited to approximately 5000 files for a primary client and 3000 for a secondary client and increasing that may seem like a great idea at first but would have negative security impications for those holding the files and could be used to add extra burden to the network by an attacker so tbh whilst it may seem great its actually a liability and thus I wouldnt wish to increase its potential scope, there has even been some talk of blocking the browse function however as this is done at the primary client level thats not an option at this time but in the future we could implement a browse blocking feature for those that want to limit their exposure to data miners whislt still sharing files in general.

The 2 gig file limit was as I recall put in place to facillitate usage with the win98 file system and similarly is set in stone for older clients, part of the current projects aims are to increase that limit in the future and to secure the currently "plain text" file transfer system in usage, both of those plans will involve breaking compatibility with the current client and for a pretty good reason  so whislt the aim is to primarily build ourselves a clone our eye is also on the future and the security concerns it brings with it.
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: wonderer on September 16, 2010, 03:32:39 pm
There is a max that can be seen.
The max for a secundairy client is 3000 and for a primary client 5000
There is no max of files to be shared.

Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: White Stripes on September 17, 2010, 01:50:11 am
Quote
The 2 gig file limit was as I recall put in place to facillitate usage with the win98 file system

win95 actually... win95 revision 'A' (retail) was FAT16 capable only... which is hard limited to 2GB even tho it was "win32" and ran winmx... later versions... win95 revision 'B' aka 'OSR2' (OEM only... i think...) as well as the relatively rare revision 'c',  and of course win98 and its incarnations, supported FAT32 which has a 4GB hard limit... EXT2/3/4 Reiser and NTFS dont have these limits but winmx is old as dirt.. not cross platform... and most at the time it was 'new' were running a flavor of win9x....


Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: achilles on September 18, 2010, 05:06:58 am
Ok, i wasn't aware that WinMX had the capability to share 65535 files which makes since since that you have 65536 ports on your computer.  That is including port 0.  Well, there is definitely no need to raise that number.  Browsing is limited to roughly 3000 files per secondary connections, and 5000 per primary connection.  Though i would like to see those capabilities extended to a higher #  it would not be worth it if one had to pay at the price of a less secure client.  Security, and stability should always be the most top concern.   Sharing files larger than 2gb should definitely be raised.  Do you think it would be hard to show files you already have completed in your library highlighted so one does not waste time downloading duplicate files?  
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: achilles on September 18, 2010, 06:26:51 am
Another great feature i believe would be a feature allowing the user to specify the minimum, and maximum file size when conducting searches.  E-mule Xtreme has this, and i have found it to be very handy.  I'm able to filter out a lot of search results that i don't want.  Also an option to filter out unwanted content like porn.
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: Bluey_412 on September 18, 2010, 08:39:52 am
or Albumart in Browses...

i dunno if i would wanna wait tho while a 10,000 file browse loads...

and i notice that a long running browse load often causes queues to collapse cos it lengthens the 'Waiting for Network Reply' refresh time, and those waits time out...
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: Bieb on September 18, 2010, 10:30:33 pm
or Albumart in Browses...

i dunno if i would wanna wait tho while a 10,000 file browse loads...

and i notice that a long running browse load often causes queues to collapse cos it lengthens the 'Waiting for Network Reply' refresh time, and those waits time out...

As most audio files to not have album art embedded into the files themselves a new client would have to have access to a large database of album art, these services usually have their own api and each user would need to register for their own api key. Or there would have to be our own album art server set up that would query and cache album art.

But as I see it Ghostship only wants to have a clone client without any new bells and whistles first. So really this thread is pointless atm. but maybe in the future....


And the time it takes to browse is artificially limited, so that could be sped up quite a bit too on a new client.

The reason for these limitations are the slow connections that we had back in the day WinMX was made. Now it's not really a problem.
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: White Stripes on September 18, 2010, 10:49:27 pm
Quote
I'm able to filter out a lot of search results that i don't want.  Also an option to filter out unwanted content like porn.

first box; search term you are looking for
second box; -things you dont want to show up

example;

first box; dallas (lets say its a band... there probably is a band by that name for all i know... theres one called alabama after all...)
second box; -debbie (we want the band after all not the porn..) the 'minus' is important....

want very a specific object?

first box; "very specific search" (the quotes are important... its 'exact phrase' matching...)


winmx acts just like google (before google added its cloned 'bing' look and dumbed down features) without the spell checking....


Quote
or Albumart in Browses...

you gotta be kidding me.... you would need to know how to parse the various metadata formats used in several audio file formats... the xiph codecs (commonly vorbis & flac) are the only ones i know of that actually have some sort of 'standard' in that regard (how many different ways can you think of to put a jpeg in an mp3 ... ive got 3 off the top of my head... mp3 was never ment to have metadata... it was a kludge added on in 1996 to a stream (mp3 is not a container format its a raw stream) format that was released in 1993)


Quote
65535 files which makes since since that you have 65536 ports on your computer.

65536 is just a 16 bit number (got a calculator? do 2 to the power of 16 (http://www.google.com/search?q=2%5E16) tell me what number you get) ... it has nothing to do with portspace per say... but is an an interesting coincidence...



...sorry for the rather cynical post... ...im... having a long day...
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: GhostShip on September 18, 2010, 11:15:20 pm
Quote
Do you think it would be hard to show files you already have completed in your library highlighted so one does not waste time downloading duplicate files?  


I thought the current client actually does this already , however if it doesnt such a feature can be made to operate rather simply by checking the download directory and comparing an index of file hash results to the hashes obtained via a network search, perhaps by using a seperate "worker" thread to ensure no heavy burden is placed on the clients normal functions.

Stripes is aware of what the 65535 limit signifies I,m sure but to those of you who are wondering just whats special about this number thats simple its the biggest number that can fit into one of the set data sizes computers utlise, things like the ports and file amounts will fit into 2 hexadecimal digits (this is termed a" WORD") whereas items like an IP require double the size to fit into and thus the scope of potential  numbers is larger ( to store an IP you need to use another size of data storage called a "DWORD") , I hope this has cleared up the mystery for some of you and my apologies if this makes no sense at all, as long as WinMX knows the difference is all most of us care about  :lol:

As to what can be filtered, the answer is basically anything as all of the actual filtering is done locally by the winmx client itself and thus your settings are the arbitor of what actually appears in your search results window, adding a different filtering method from emule would likley be more than possible, winmx allows for some fields to be fine tuned to save network overhead but its well known you get a lot more results than you actually see and for the reason I mentioned above.
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: Bluey_412 on September 18, 2010, 11:26:03 pm
the need to filter things like Albumart is in the browse, not the search window, and some sort of options or filter settings box IN the browse windows would do that..

Or mebbe an item in the WinMX settings sheet, where you can specify strings, like you do in certain functions in Moni
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: Bieb on September 19, 2010, 04:03:48 am
Well all of the features pertaining to manipulating search results are possible as that is all done client side. Nothing would need to change in the core protocol for searches for those features to be added.
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: achilles on September 19, 2010, 06:22:53 pm
What language is the new client being written in?  C# or C++?
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: achilles on September 19, 2010, 06:31:15 pm
Does anyone recommend a good open source free compiler?  I'm trying to learn some basic programming in C#, and C++.  I looked at bloodshed dev in the past, but it seems the project is no longer being developed.  Is Bloodshed Dev still a good choice or should i go with something else?
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: Zénar on September 19, 2010, 07:03:27 pm
If you want to do programming in C#, you can always use Monodevelop (http://monodevelop.com/) but personally, I'm using Visual Studio 2008 for C# and C++.
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: achilles on September 20, 2010, 06:24:29 am
What language is the new client being written in?
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: White Stripes on September 20, 2010, 06:24:54 am
Quote
Does anyone recommend a good open source free compiler?

http://gcc.gnu.org/

..or bloodsheds compiler... microsofts C# is... not worth it IMO... and its not what the new client is being written in anyway...
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: achilles on September 24, 2010, 08:40:50 pm
Ghost Ship, what language is the new client being written in?
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: GhostShip on September 24, 2010, 10:03:57 pm
I apologise for not noticing your question Achilles  :oops:

What we are using is basically the most similar language to what it was written with in the first place namely MS MFC C++, the original WinMX client is coded using MFC but it makes use of special templates and is sort of an MFC variant, obviously Kevin had more skill that we can bring to the field but as we are not setting our sights above what we can deliver I,m confident folks will be happy with what they see when we do so, one good aspect of all this is that this program will run on wine with little or no modification, however I know that wont please everyone , what I have proposed to a few folks is that once we have something constructed they can then look over the code and port it to the platform of their choice, basically to use this as a client template, that does seem the most simple idea to me as there's little point us all wasting time doing the same operation and making the same mistakes in many different languages when with a working model its pretty much easier to recreate the same function, at least that's my belief  :)
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: achilles on September 26, 2010, 06:47:53 pm
Has anyone looked at Soulseek? The GUI resembles Winmx.  Would this be violating copyright?  If its open source maybe someone could look at the code for some ideals on the new client. I'm not sure what its coded in.  http://www.slsknet.org/
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: p2p rules on September 26, 2010, 07:02:54 pm
Soulseek is a closed source program.
Check out this link (http://daelstorm.thegraveyard.org/soulseek.php) for some open source versions of soulseek clients & servers.
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: achilles on September 27, 2010, 03:11:02 pm
Since reading more threads on this  forum i see their has been several discussions on this topic in the past. Is there some way to merge all of the threads on this topic into 1 single thread?  I believe it would benefit everyone to have all of this info in 1 centralized location.  I would just ask that the tread be named something that would make it clear what the thread is about.  Would anyone have any objections to this?  I started this thread, and i would have no objection with it being merged with the rest. I believe it would make it easier for new users to locate the new combined thread  if it was located under Winmx Client, but if it were placed under protocol discussion then that would be fine as well.

Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: GhostShip on September 27, 2010, 03:44:05 pm
There should be no reason why that cant be done however as you may have noticed some of the threads get a little bit off topic and it may be a bit off-putting to see the topic jump about or see off topic posts disappear, we often get a lot of complaints when we take even a single post away let alone a few tens of posts that wouldnt be appropriate in this single thread, I,ll see what can be done Achilles and I hope to be able to join some here if thats of help but please dont be disappointed if some threads are missed out for the reason explained above, cheers for your continued interest  8)
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: achilles on September 29, 2010, 05:33:53 pm
I know their were mentions of making a more secure client or better security.  This is a #1 priority for me. What could be done other than having an option to block a user's ability to browse your files.  Winmx seems to be already really secure.  Is it possible to have an option to connect to the network like a multi hop VPN?   I just ran out of time.  I will have to explain about the VPN when i get back.  Anyways what could be done to make it more secure?
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: White Stripes on September 29, 2010, 11:53:39 pm
Quote
Winmx seems to be already really secure.

the 6+yr old encryption it uses has been long since broken and file transfer data is plain http.... ...go from there... (nobody said this was going to be an easy fix overall .... think small steps ... since the old client simply cant be made obsolete all at once)

SSL for the http style and UDP (torrent/ares style)  have been proposed for the file transfers ...

running mx over a VPN would be the same as any other app... i think (dont quote me on this) it can be used over tor as well... just like other apps... the ultimate goal tho is to have it stand on its own two legs (so to speak) with its own strong encryption... (anyone have a dream pipe i can borrow?)
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: achilles on September 30, 2010, 12:51:05 am
ok, i'm back, and i have a question about WPN protocol.  Does a secondary connection function similar to  an anonymous VPN service with a single hop, and the primary client acting as an exit node?  For instance; If i connect using a secondary connection then i am connecting to a peer running a primary connection, and all my searches are routed through the peer with the primary connection; in other words the primary peer is doing the searching for me.  His machine acts as a server or a man in the middle so to speak.  Once the peer on the primary connection finds the file i am looking for then am  i connecting directly to the peer with the file or does my traffic get routed through the client with the primary connection, and then back to me?  If this was the case then the client on the primary connection would be acting as an exit node, and the client with the file would be seeing the primary's IP address instead of the person downloading the file.  So does the primary client only assist in finding the files for the secondary or does it also act as an exit node as described in the above senario? 
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: White Stripes on September 30, 2010, 02:15:48 am
Quote
For instance; If i connect using a secondary connection then i am connecting to a peer running a primary connection, and all my searches are routed through the peer with the primary connection; in other words the primary peer is doing the searching for me.

yes. his machine also holds the list of files you have shared so that other primaries can find them (and forward them to other secondaries if needed) as well... private messages are also routed through the primary to its target secondary... browse of course comes from primary too since they have your list of files...

Quote
His machine acts as a server or a man in the middle so to speak.

in most parts yes...

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Once the peer on the primary connection finds the file i am looking for then am  i connecting directly to the peer with the file or does my traffic get routed through the client with the primary connection, and then back to me?

you get the file search/browse results from the primaries on the network but the actual file itself is a direct connection between the secondaries.... or primary to secondary if the primary has the file you download ... same for uploads...

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So does the primary client only assist in finding the files for the secondary or does it also act as an exit node as described in the above senario?

it finds files, forwards pms, and fetches the chat channel list... the download/upload of files and connecting to chat servers is secondary directly connecting... ...the primary does not keep a secondary anonymous...
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: achilles on September 30, 2010, 03:49:06 am
Thank You Silver Stripes!  You answered all my questions.  I have a better ideal of how WPN operates now.  I've had a few ideals on how to make a much more anonymous network.  Changes would have to be made to the patch, and the client.  Its not possible to implement into the current client.  Its more important to have a new working client than to implement an entirely new protocol in which the network operates.  I'm still going to be doing more research on this topic, and then make a diagram on how it could be done.  It would be the most unique, and secure P2P client ever created.  The whole network would be an anonymous  with each client acting as a multi-hop exit node.  It would change the entire network, and could never be done with the current client. It may never be implemented into the WPN, but its a project i have taken interest in. So i have plenty of time to research.  I would be happy if we could only find more good coders with the areas of expertise needed to complete a new client. Once we have a full working client it can be perfected over time.  I believe there is a lot of good coders out there that would be willing to help if they only knew how many users still use WPN.  I tell my friend about Winmx all the time, and most of them have never heard of it.  Its a shame because its so light on system resources that you can leave it running 24/7/365 and not even know its running.  There's a huge amount of files available on the network, and once the 2gb limit is uncapped there will be so many more. 
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: White Stripes on September 30, 2010, 06:56:11 am
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Thank You Silver Stripes!  You answered all my questions.

no problem :)

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It would be the most unique, and secure P2P client ever created.

i think a few might have beat you to that... depending on your views...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WASTE (the fork 'waste again' is still in development)

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The whole network would be an anonymous  with each client acting as a multi-hop exit node.
been done.. its called ants;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANts_P2P

...didnt mean to rain on your parade but no need to reinvent the wheel...

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once the 2gb limit is uncapped there will be so many more.
for many reasons... way easier said than done....
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: achilles on September 30, 2010, 03:57:49 pm
Thank You Silver Stripes!  Ants was closer to what i was talking about.   They both seem to be incomplete, but there still working on them so that is good! 
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: achilles on September 30, 2010, 05:05:31 pm
I have a question for those working on a new client. what would be the best protocol to provide better security without giving up functionality in a new client ( SSL, PPTP, L2TP, or IPSec) ?
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: achilles on September 30, 2010, 05:15:20 pm
Opps.. I forgot to mention SFTP to the above protocols.
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: White Stripes on September 30, 2010, 11:57:51 pm
something UDP based... UDP packets are 'slippery' to begin with.... and there are plenty of F/OSS encryption (twofish comes to mind) and error correction (UDP is quite a different creature than TCP) methods out there.....

....i say this because bittorrents UDP based uTP protocol is very good at what it does....
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: achilles on October 01, 2010, 01:27:17 am
So what protocol is the current client using for file transfer between clients, and what protocol is it using for messaging in chat rooms?
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: White Stripes on October 01, 2010, 11:27:31 am

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So what protocol is the current client using for file transfer between clients

slight variant of http (no im not kidding) uses TCP just like regular http

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and what protocol is it using for messaging in chat rooms?

its own... chat is technically part of the wpn protocol even tho the user connects to the chat server directly...  also TCP...

parts of the wpn use UDP and parts use TCP ... its why it openes two ports ... open UDP port is needed for primary functionality... secondary can get along on TCP alone but having UDP open helps...



-edit- typo, clarity, additional info...

edited tig: done as requested by Silver Stripes.
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: achilles on October 01, 2010, 02:17:21 pm
I was acqually aware of WinMx using TCP, and UDP.  All the the file sharing clients i use do.  Maybe i'm misunderstanding the function of TCP, and UDP protocol.   I understand that TCP stands for Transmission Control Protocol, and UDP stands for User Datagram Protocol. This probably has a lot more meaning to someone that is an expert in this area, but i am no expert in this area though i am learning more every day. Doesn't some or all of the following protocols use TCP, and UDP connections
 ( SSL, PPTP, L2TP, IPSec) ?  

P.S I wish i had started this conversion in the Protocol discussion area of the forum.  If i move it now though it want make much since without the previous post.
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: White Stripes on October 02, 2010, 04:52:13 am
ahh.. i understand what you mean now....

TCP is basically a 'self contained' packet... it has the length, sender info, payload, error correction, and time to live data all in one packet (to put it very simply) and the reciver is expecting the packet and will send data back that it got the packet... ...or even if it didnt...

wikipedia most likely will do a better job than i can explaining it; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_Control_Protocol

UDP is as its namesake not fully 'complete' but rather 'bare bones'...  ... its a user created packet... it has length, sender, and payload infos... ...and thats pretty much it... what the programs do with UDP packets is completely up to the programmer.... as for error correction and responses the UDP packet either makes it or dont... whereas TCP is a 'tries its best to make it' ... when a UDP packet doesnt make it its up to the programmer what to do at that point... it can be ignored or they can send something back....

again from wikipedia; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_Datagram_Protocol

the operating system (its TCP/IP stack) gets more involved with TCP as well... whereas UDP relies mostly on the program that is sending&recieving the UDP packets...

TCP and UDP are simply one layer in the communication 'stack' that the other protocols you are talking about make use of...

SSL in the conventional sense uses port 443 (as apposed to port 80) and is primarily used for encrypted communication with a browser to webserver for.. say.. online shopping... like http, ssl is TCP...

PPTP is microsofts VPN protocol uses port 1723 and is TCP... (microsoft proprietary... avoid...)

L2TP is a VPN protocol that uses port 1701 and is UDP...

and for the oddball in your list;

IPsec is a packet layer (IP) encryption scheme... it is neither TCP or UDP... and next to those is comparitively new... was ment for IPv6 so support in various OSen may be spotty or non exsistant...

ICMP is another packet layer (IP) nugget that you may have come across ;)

all in all if you want your project to be compatible across the widest possible OSen and networks TCP and UDP are your best bets... 
what you put in those TCP and/or UDP packets is ofc up to you....
Title: Re: What additional features or improvements would you like to see added to WinMX?
Post by: achilles on October 02, 2010, 05:21:38 am
Thanks for the reply Silver Stripes!  I'm always trying to learn more.