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PC Aid Station => General PC Aid => Topic started by: MinersLantern on May 03, 2015, 10:14:34 am

Title: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: MinersLantern on May 03, 2015, 10:14:34 am
In order to contol some of these attacks to my room I wish to host on Linux.

Debian is stable and fast.

Trouble is its acting like a virus.

I installed the newest one version 8, and it behaved and said successfully installed. Remove media and reboot.


I attempted to install an older version, and it became impossible to boot from the dvd.

I also said, hmm. Maybe the dvd is bad, so I also tried to let XP bootdisk and win7 bootdisk have at it. Nope.

I thought, well maybe the dbd burner cannot read and is afu. Changed that out to another. No change, same result.

Changed out the pata cable and the PS line. No change.

So went and put puppy linux on it.

That one booted off the dvd just fine, and installed to the drive.

So I went to try Debian yet again. Nope. Impossible to boot or access the drive.

Then tried an old version of Debian that I know works. Nope. No boot.

Tried windows XP and Win7 install disk, acces denied to the hard disk.

I just wanted to wipe the disk blank at this point.

Hard drive prretty much destroyed (physically) imo.

So I replaced that.

Tried installing a version of Deb which is ancient.

That worked nicely, booting from the dvd and installing.

Tried again ungrading to another Debian only slightly higher.

Access denied.

Went and tried once again to format the stupid drive using windows. Nope, cannot boot from the dvd now. Debian says so. Also cannot boot from a windows dvd either.


I have never seen any type of software, esp not an OS just simply trash the hard drive.

Even more odd how it can manage to do something to make it impossible for anything to boot from the optical drive.

If I go dig up another normal windows formatted drive, the silly thing will once again be happy to boot optically.

But since I dont have 20,000 extra hard drives, blanked by windows. Its getting to become annoying as to how Linux (any flavor) takes over the enite computer forever, until the day you die.

I dont know what is going on with this, but such weird behaviour I have never seen before, years ago.

Using even the same old versions of Linux, on the same ancient hardware.

The thing isnt even connected to the net so far.

So some oddness in that way isnt possible.

It is disturbing to me how Linux basically destroys your hard drive, and it cannot be reversed.

Cannot be updated, cannot be booted.

the only fix to pull the thing out and plug it into a windows os pc, and format the thing.

Not something I want to do, tearing apart my pc just to mess around zeroing a hard drive.

Over and over again.

Linux isnt capable of that complexity.

Linux is more like a damn trojan or virus.

Windows, any version, doesnt go around trashing the hard disk to make it inaccessable.

That seems to be a special feature of Linux.

What a damn pain.

Title: Re: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: silicon_toad2000 on May 03, 2015, 11:17:16 am
I think you might have other issues besides a non cooperative operating system.
A lot of what your putting forward sounds weird and what your suggesting just doesn't sit right.
If you boot from a dvd, what is on the hdd has no say over what you do.

I see myself as an experienced novice? (is that a thing?) but I've not had any trouble formatting a computer and running debian, ubuntu, fedora, freebsd or windows. The only time i had issues similar to what you're describing was when i had a motherboard was on the way out (just needed to get a few more weeks out of it)
Title: Re: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: White Stripes on May 04, 2015, 03:03:30 am
toad is right... its hardware issues... as for making a harddrive useless no... linux wont do that... do a
SMART check on it for relocated sectors to see if its dying... for xp the fix to go back from linux was to boot the recovery console and type 'fdisk /mbr' then install ... ive never done that with win7 but have had no problem replacing 7 with linux....

I see myself as an experienced novice? (is that a thing?)
hard knocks, magic smoke and stacks of manuals? ;)
Title: Re: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: silicon_toad2000 on May 04, 2015, 06:02:06 am
stacks of manuals? you mean screens of pdf's?
Title: Re: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: White Stripes on May 05, 2015, 01:11:31 am
stacks of manuals? you mean screens of pdf's?

no pdf option if it hasnt been fully assembled yet ;)
Title: Re: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: MinersLantern on May 05, 2015, 06:45:51 am
Well today I tore apart and cleaned the dvd burner, that made no change.
I got the latest Debian to install successfully. But did that last night as well. Impossible to do unless I totally wipe the hard disk. Boot on CD or DVD or whatever doesnt work if any form of Linux is already on the drive.

Debian says all is well, remove DVD and reboot. hah.

It pretends to boot from the hard drive, gets to the point of startx... and sits there, forever, not doing anything but showing a blank screen. Even the activity on the drive stops. (a possible bug ive read on anything that involves Debian and anything derived from it, such as the various ...butus.. Something abt how it incorrectly starts off from the wrong tty or something.)

Its supposed to be fixable if you go and edit some obscure file. But how do you do that when all it does is stop doing anytrhing at all?

They refuse to fix that, have refused for years to fix it. Debian was my favorite, stable, fast. But now they act like Microsoft used to act. Anyway....

I did Puppy linux, also the newest version. All the weirdness went away. It doesnt involve Debian, maybe thats why.

Since I have removed, formatted and installed other linuxes all day today. Having to reinstall Puppy from scratch each time to regain control so that I can complettely unpartition and destroy, recreate the hard drive.

For some reason Puppy works flawlessly, every single time and it doesnt care if the drive is blank or not. It simply takes over, and installs. Just works.

It isnt a hardware problem.

If it was, Puppy would also be all strange and illogical as the others have been.

Also one of my old versions of Debian works just as well,. Lenny.

Well, I give up on new versions of anything involving Debian. Many have been complaining for years since version 7 on how X starts on the incorrect tty locked up on a blank screen.

Debian is like piss off and go away.  lol

It must be booting also from optical too. If the thing sees anything involving Linux on the hardrive. It stops. Totally destroy the hard disk of any data and the optical part boots up so you can install or run live.

Havent got those 2 Lbuntu or Debian to even start live in that way either.

They both do the freeze and stop thing as soon as X is supposed to start.

Ill try messing around with Debian Lenny now. Puppy works just fine but I have the entire archive of that version of Debian on DVD so wanna see which is more snappy and easy to use by testing. Puppy looks far more polished and attractive at this point, but I havent played with Lenny for many years. Maybe the uglyness can be removed by tweaking.

Puppy is also very user friendly at this point, not like it used to be.

Fun, fun, fun.

Title: Re: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: Ace on May 05, 2015, 10:43:28 am
if i was you do a fresh clean install  [format the hole drive ]    i found in the past to install windos then reformat when you install  Linux  if by chance it still hangs the hard drive it dieing so instead of flapping about just buy new harddrive  saves sooooo much hassle
Title: Re: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: Ace on May 05, 2015, 10:45:07 am
ow and make sure you have disconnetted from the net when you do anyyyy install ...
Title: Re: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: JOSE on May 05, 2015, 06:38:21 pm
Ace you need to learn how to spell simple words :yes:
Title: Re: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: GhostShip on May 06, 2015, 06:00:07 am
Each poster has their own unique style and by interacting here maintains the diversity of the community, perfect spellers are not the only ones allowed an opinion on this forum.

We do have a spell checker built into the forum if folks wish to use it but the choice is theirs alone.
Title: Re: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: MinersLantern on May 09, 2015, 11:14:53 am
Days of nevending work later, Ive found a few things.

The newest version of Puppy looks nice and actually runs properly.

The old version of Debian which also works, is kinda primitive and clunky. (used to think Debian was gods gift to mankind)

Knoppix was wonderful and easy to use. Until they 'upgraded' it..

The vast majority of all new lini fail to get past the point of starting X. At that point the screen goes black, the computer will not respond to any keyboard commands. It is called the black screen of death by many.

Lots of people are complaing abt that lately. Even ones with nice speedy new pcs.

It works just fine for some, for others, no way to boot into the GUI and no way to try anything else, except cut the power.

All kinds of workarounds and fixes are posted, but none of those work for most having the issue.

I went into my collection and found ancient old obsolete Mandriva linux.

It is much faster than these modern light on demand and fast versions available nowadays.

It also boots up and installs perfectly without any issues.

It was a royal pain, but I finally got past its weirdness. It doesnt like to remember things like associating a windows exe file with wine for example.

It also pretends wine doesnt exist when even installed by the normal username (not root).

Go in by root and suddenly wine exists again.  lol BTW, you can login as Root AND still use KDE. No messing around with odd command lines as much.

Which reminds me, Mandriva  running KDE is still way faster than these lightweight distros, using some other slloppy looking GUI.

Anywho, I have the latest version of what used to be Mandrake, then Mandriva, then closed and ressurected as what is now called Mageia.

I wonder if that will behave and not do this black screen of death thing?

I had decided to use Puppy. But after going nuts trying everything else that exists, now Mandriva from 2k8 is looking good.

Maybe the newer one will be better? Or it will sit there stupidly killing the entire computer once it switches over to running X.

Something is horribly wrong with modern kernels (most of them) and nobody wants to fix it.

Puppy is modern yet it works just fine as to actually being capable of starting the X server.
I guess because the person in control of that, is interested in the thing to simply work.

Ubuntu is shit, slow as Javascript on a webpage, bloated and also refuses to boot.

Based off Debian, but really? the Butu collection has always been horribly slow, while pure Debian was fast.

But still not in any way as fast as Mandrake (driva) is/was.

Once I got the hosting and running robo as the bot going properly I cloned the entire disk.

Its less than 1 gig as a collection of files produced by Clonezilla.

I do that to every experiment I try, if it seems to be working. Reinstalling and setting up again takes forever so I just image the entire disk and stash that elsewhere.

I can then, kill off the hard drive and go back to anything else I have imaged, within abt 10 minutes.

Still no hardware problem, a Linux problem.  lol

Title: Re: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: MinersLantern on May 10, 2015, 10:35:40 am
Meh, the new version of what used to be Mandriva is worse than anything else Ive tried. It doesnt even begin to attempt to boot.

Ill do this on the old Mandriva. Ive been messing around with it for 2 days, still stable and fast.

I have gotten it to accept Wine and it runs robomx and wcs just fine. Looks 'original too. It tokk forever to make a desktop 'link' for each of those which actually worked.

Today I disabled shorewall, because its a confusing mess, and played around with plain old iptables.

Scripts are available to just make the thing automatically update iptables to reject TOR nodes which can connect to my ip. Resulting in a smaller list of ips to dash away, speeding things up.

Linux is a pain, but once it gets to working the way you want, its getting interesting.

(god... now I have legally become a nerd)  :o

Title: Re: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: MinersLantern on May 22, 2015, 10:25:03 am
How annoying this Linux idea is becoming.

I have the old Mandriva one working just fine to host and run robomx as its bot.

It runs very stable and fast.

But I require tightvnc because I dont want to have to use a seperate keyboard, mouse and monitor to admin the thing.

The problem? VNC server is impossible to run on Linux.

It always complains about the path to the fonts then exits. Doesnt matter if you change the script file to point to the correct location to the fonts. In fact, the error message gets more urgent. Saying please restore the correct path.

Why does it care about fonts anyway?

VNC in the world of windows simply sends video back to the client. Fonts are meaningless.

I got rid of mandriva and tried this on the newest Puppy as well.

It is even worse, aside from being horrid slow. Try to install VNC on puppy and it says done. Then it whines abt dependancies, so fine install those too. What happens?

It successfully installs those, then says oops! the same dependancies require to be installed.

It does that over and over again, forever.

Why cant Linux work like windows?

Things like host a room, run the exe. Done.

Want remote access via VNC?

Run the exe. Done.

None of this spending days on Google typing in bizzare line commands to the pc to try to make it work. Under Windows it just simply works, right away. And it doesnt slowly plod along about it either.

Since Linux is useless as a real operating system, I think now I will just use it to just filter the network. Send all the windows traffic through the Linux access point.

A waste of electricity to run another pc just to do that. And I still will not be able to make any changes or control it remotely.

Since Linux, all types, have VNC available, but it simply doesnt work.

Fonts my lil butt.

Title: Re: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: MinersLantern on May 22, 2015, 10:45:25 am
Damn. I just thought that I still will not be able to admin remotely even a simple firewall under Linux, cause, VNC doesnt work.

What a nightmare.

Its not just me and my ignorance btw, I have been searching for days on Google how to fix this VNC thing. Many people have the same problem. All manner of suggestions to fix it, few of them actually work.

It is across ALL versions of anything related to Linux.

Much like the black screen of death issue on newer versions of Linux. Some dont have that happen, others do. Nobody knows how to fix it.

I wonder if BSD can handle both Wine and VNC server.

Prolly not, since it isnt Windows.


It would be nice to get this out of the way.

I have a giant heatsink to put on my real computer powered by Win7 and 2 fans as well.

(it gets rather toasty in temperature when I go to recoding dozens of video files all in one shot as fast as possible)

Something Linux would say Huh??? Then promptly fail, complaining that something silly isnt correct like a damn font.


Title: Re: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: White Stripes on May 22, 2015, 04:35:34 pm
'VNC' on linux is built in... you need ssh installed for a text console and an X server for gui apps.... ive run programs remotely with a linux distro that fit on floppy... but there are X servers for windows too

Title: Re: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: MinersLantern on May 23, 2015, 11:38:20 am
I think the lack of drivers for the network is the issue.

I setup samba, NFS, etc. Linux, every version still refuses to play nice.

The pc is very ancient. So, I decided pfft at Linux and put win2k on it.

Suddenly, everything works, no problem.

Another thing im pondering is to run a VM under windows. Disable any possibility of the actual windows from connecting to the internet.

All traffic in or out to be sent to a virtual Linux based machine. Very small. No gui and all that. Just to take advantage of both Windows and Linux at the same time. (fully functioning IP Tables)

The remoting can be handled by windows as the actual host which can allow any changes or commands to be done to the virtual Linux too.

The tiny and very fast command line only Linux can sit there and deal with the traffic.

Hmm. The best of both worlds.

Title: Re: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: MinersLantern on May 23, 2015, 11:47:25 am
Even my darling of Linux... old Mandriva 2008... that thing works wonderful and is quick. But share directories? Try to do vncserver?? haha.  Doesnt work at all.

I guess this is why M$ still owns the world. At least it just works, and you dont have to do a month of research to try to make it work. Failing to make it work anyway.

It would be nice if they (microsoft) would borrow the complete functionality of netfilter/iptables and add that to the OS.

wipfw can sorta do that, but is limited as compared to a real Linux.

Title: Re: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: White Stripes on May 23, 2015, 06:25:59 pm
At least it just works, and you dont have to do a month of research to try to make it work.

someone coming from another platform.. such as mac or even linux itself would have to do quite a bit of research themselves... its just whatever os one 'grew up with' (damn i miss DOS, but i bet few know how to use it properly now... did you know you could do network shares with it?) or are most familiar with that makes it seem like it 'just works'...
Title: Re: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: White Stripes on May 23, 2015, 06:58:13 pm
Another thing im pondering is to run a VM under windows. Disable any possibility of the actual windows from connecting to the internet.

linux in a vm under windows still has windows on the internet.... something i would advise serious caution in when it comes to win2k....
Title: Re: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: MinersLantern on May 25, 2015, 11:27:24 am
I disagree about whatever I grew up with.  lol

To make TightVNC work on windows, install TightVNC, do the config on its menu and your done. It just works.

On Linux, you have to hack the system. On mine it never did work, not even the version included with the Linux I was using.

And no, win2k running as host to a virtual connection isnt connected to the internet at all. Behind a NAT modem, change its fixed ip to something which uses a gateway which doesnt exist (except  thru a virtual nice firewall such as pfSense)

Redirect everything in or out through the fake gateway.

I know that win2k is easy to attack and all. But this is just to host over one port for a room.

Any other ports are blocked. Not to be used for browsing email, fileshares and all that.


pfSense is the sexyist thing ive seen. My god, that thing can do all manner of things and is very easy to use.

It works fine virtually, until I add a fake NIC. At that point, it fails to be accessible (web interface) by any address.even by the real NIC even though it detects the same real NIC anyway and with the same local ip.

The fake NIC I want to use to point the real windows connection to as gateway.

So that everything in or out has to go though pfSense.

But it seems to prefer to be setup on a real computer with 2 real cards acting as a proper router.

I wouldnt mind that really, but its getting expensive... buy another computer to use way too much electricity 24/7 just to act as a router/firewall.

There must be a way to do this virtually. Others have done it.

Very strange. Well its BSD, same thing as Linux. Strange is to be expected.
Title: Re: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: White Stripes on May 25, 2015, 05:13:23 pm
Well its BSD, same thing as Linux.

same concept in operation but two very different kernels.... its not the same thing as linux...

have fun with your oddball machine :)
Title: Re: Linux is a trojan. UGH.
Post by: MinersLantern on June 03, 2015, 07:59:09 am
It was interesting in a nerdy sorta way.
I have found that it is impossible to run a linux firewall virtually and then connect a windows client  who also is the host, thru it. No matter what other people on the internet say.

The thing to do now, I guess... is to simply do a linux fanvy firewall on a different physical machine, set the silly modem to DMZ mode and let that computer deal with the traffic and filtering.

All this time consuming work just because of how very odd the chatrooms are now.

Mine is dead. It is impossible to enter and under constant assault by 'people' or whatever using esp Socks 5. Also Tor, but less of that.

On top of this, I have seen constant hits, over and over by some company who contracts with the US government.

They just sit there, constantly, 24/7, hitting the room. (not visible unless you watch the actual connections to the port)

Anyway, the room is toast. It doesnt work on win7, real or virtual. Trying to remove that even via iptables in the modem, just overloads the modem. Doesnt work on its original pc under win2k either, same thing. Nor does it work under pure Linux.

Its Very odd since right now, I can get the room to actually list on the WPN itself. Even the real WinMX is working just fine, no more flooding and fake search results. Search, queue, and download. WinMX for now is acting like it used to.

I even saw an old friend, KR listing World. I havent seen a peep from KR for years, I assumed he died or something.

Tried to go in his room and it cant be entered either.

He gave up and stopped trying now.

What is going on now seems to be another vector of attack.

Otherwise also strange, many of the rooms that successfully list have plenty of users. It is not a problem to enter.

Mostly on FXS, but I tried hosting on that as well. Made no difference.

Any ideas? Why is WinMX now working so well? Why is hosting a room impossible?? Although the room shows up right away if allowed to connect to the WPN not even eating traffic...

In fact, if I return to disconnecting it, change ip, etc. Post on Joshes place leaving it offline. Still nobody can enter, except the ones using Socks and Tor. And those, as expected, drop within 10 seconds, as usual.

Peeps on anything else, including WinMX cannot enter at all.

Meanwhile, watching the connect attempts at the low level, yuck. A sea of flood traffic which appears to be triggered by a connect via socks. At that point the stupid WCS or FXS starts sending out multiple connection attempts elsewhere. Mostly to Japan.

The ones triggering this are usually from Russia (or its ex satelittes)  or China. More are involved.. NL, South Amerka, and Australia.

Tor and socks can be from anywhere, but I see this strange 'trigger' problem with the ones above.

They can be firewalled but all that does is overload the connection device, so that it becomes impossible to simply use the other computers to do the simplest things, like connect to the grocery store to see whats on sale.

If this is any help, what happens here is someone on socks connects for any amount of time (one nanosecond) then drops.

That triggers around 20 other attempts from the room hosting software under UDP to all kinds of strange and illogical places worldwide.

The poor router keeps this in its table, with some very long expiration time.

This goes on and on eventually the router/modem says. pfft.

Only way to fix it is cut the power, and reboot.

I see no way to stop it. Either let in all the flooding, and stuff the pc. Or, block the traffic and stuff the router.

Its like im a specific target, but I have cutoff the modem and grabbed another ip addy around a dozen times today, to find a better connection that operates at rated speed. Ip changing each time.

Makes no difference that either. But at least the real internet is back to its usual speedy self.

Room still dead, no matter the address and port, no matter the OS or physical or virtual computer.

Oh well. A nice Linux firewall running on a seperate real pc to filter everything, in or out on all pcs in the house would be nice, and interesting, but so far, I dont see that making the room work.

Something is massively El Bizzaro.