Author Topic: Issueing Tutorials (Read 2074 times)

Sophosaurus · « **on:** September 30, 2006, 03:44:31 pm »

https://www.winmxworld.com/tutorials/incoming_folder.html

Quote

Remember its always a good idea to keep your Incoming folder unshared until you can go through your new files, check that they are good and named properly before you share.

This will also keep you from sharing incomplete files. They are not good to share because if you have a rare file and hundreds of ppl download it from you...every ones will be incomplete.

I think, this should be changed. I'll try to explain the mathematical principles of rare and incomplete files.

Let's assume there is a rare file owned by one user only and you are the only person ever downloding this file ending up with an incomplete. Your chance to get this incomplete file completed is low and the time you need to get a second transmission running depends on cance multiplied by time.

You have to:
a) Find the user who ones the file being online again.
b) Queue up successfully
c) Stay connected until you are next in line

If you don't share this incomplete, you will be the only one trying to get this file and your chance is staying that low!

Your chances for getting queued up calculate as:
X = Overall-time / average percentage of time you are online * average percentage of time the source is online / 100 / percentage of time you and the source are in mesh-horizon to get connected.

Your chance of starting transmission calculates as:
Y = X / Number of users in queue * average transmission

You need 1 / Y days to get your incomplete file completed.

If you share your incomplete file this calculation changes:
Y for all users with same incomplete in common is Y * n.

That's why the chance that someone will get your incomplete file completed raises with everyone downloading this incomplete file. With every new completed file your chances of queuing up increases and also your chance of getting transmissions started increases.

There is a risk, that the only existing source decides to unshares the file or stays offline for the rest of his life. As time goes by the incompletes will show off in serach resuts with the same size and there will be no complete at all. So everyone should avoid downloading incompletes as long as there is no completed file at all.

That's why incompletes are to be shared in most P2P-apps by default.

Me Here · « **Reply #1 on:** September 30, 2006, 04:42:04 pm »

Sophos anyone with as much working knowledge as yourself of WinMX surely I would agree with some of your points.. however, this tutorial you point out is for the users that are new. In general its a bad idea to share your Incoming folder and I stand by that. Having incompletes of files that are rare doesnt mean that somehow because everyone is sharing incompletes of this rare file it will magically get completed.

Your elaborate equation has one major flaw.. the rare file incomplete being shared by everyone doesn't increase the ability to finish it.. only staying connected and getting it from the original source would. In fact I can only see two times when sharing incompletes would be a good idea.. (both of these would be one time only deals)
1. You have a new release of something and want to get it moved quickly, in which case sharing the incompleted portion would help.
2. You and a friend are trying to get the same file, and sharing it creates a way for that to happen. From Source A to Source B (you) to Source C (friend).

Sharing incompletes may be a good suggestion in some rare instances but for the majority of time and for the new user .. its not.

KM · « **Reply #2 on:** September 30, 2006, 05:16:27 pm »

Most of the time if you are trying to get something and it cuts off half way through and the user goes offline, it isn't really worth leaving it as it rarely manages to finish anyway - i generally delete it and try again some other time when someone else with whatever I'm after is online, or if possible try another source straight away depending on how rare it is

With many other networks sharing incompletes is useful - as they generally use segmented file transfers so you might have the first half and someone else has the second half and you can then exchange what you have with each other and complete the file without anyone needing the entire file. WinMX however is optimised for mp3 files, and therefore doesn't bother with segmentation and instead does sequential downloads to allow previewing of incompletes - this makes it less suited to sharing incompletes, as no matter how many people have 99% of the time, nobody can get 100% of it without the original sharer coming back online

and generally those who know what they are doing wouldn't download a file if there wasn't a complete source, the only ones who would do are new users etc who don't realise that it's not a complete file - who will then probably start complaining about it showing a file but the file isn't actually there

GhostShip · « **Reply #3 on:** September 30, 2006, 05:23:22 pm »

There is one more reason we suggest not sharing incompletes and thats to do with the flooders being able to pick up searches for certain files and suddenly answering the call with 100 flooders from nowhere, this has been seen in action and its a near certainty those sharing incompletes are looking for the other half of the file and open to this form of attack.

If the attackers did not exist your logic would be sound, but with a sequential download as KM mentioned having half of something is not worth the risk or bother..

Bearded Blunder · « **Reply #4 on:** September 30, 2006, 05:30:20 pm »

In addition to all the foregoing, i'd like to add my input too, as someone who downloads archives iso & exe files more than mp3 or video.. sharing incomplete files before i can verify they are actually what they perport to be.. & before i can verify them to be virus/trojan free seems to be a very bad idea, i'd hate to have found i'd shared an incomplete & helped in the spread of some nasty code in this way

Sophosaurus · « **Reply #5 on:** September 30, 2006, 06:57:50 pm »

stage one, case 1)

one user has an incomplete file and
one source has an average of 100 people in his queue
the incomplete file uses 1 of 100 optional download chances
with an average of 50 uploads before it gets started

the user has 1% of optional mean capacity unweighted
99% of all optional transmissions are used by other files.

stage one, case 2)

two users have the incomplete file and
one source has an average of 100 people in his queue
the incomplete file uses 1 of 50 optional download chances
with an average of 25 uploads before them

the users(!) have 2% of optional mean capacity unweighted
and 98% of all optional transmissions get used by other files.

stage one, case 3)

ten users have the incomplete file and
one source has an average of 100 people in his queue
the incomplete file uses 1 of ten optional download chances
with an average of 5 uploads before them

the users have 10% of optional mean capacity unweighted
and 90% of all otional transmissions get used by other files

case 1 equals a waiting time of two months
case 2 equals a waiting time of one month
case 3 equals a waiting time of one week
to double up the completed sources

stage two can be easyly calculated
so there is indeed a magical completion of incompleted files

some words to KM:

You are right if you talk about small files and especially mp3s which mostly differ by some bytes only or in their usually bad id-tags. There is in most cases no use in keeping them if they don't get completed at once.

Larger files isially won't get completed at first attempt. If you delete incomplete movies, cd-images and other large files i doubt that there are chances to get them in a lifetime. There are cases one should delete and start another, there are cases it's better to spend some patience.

some words on viruses and files labeled wrong by name.

People without basic protection are lost in all cases, if there are incompletes or not. They usually suffer lots of malware even not using p2p. On p2p they are playing hazard by will and i don't believe we could protect them. They will learn by experience which we all did.

Surely malware and wrong labeled stuff is annoying but as long as one doen't get a file at all, there is no real damage caused because we all see what we get as soon as it is completed and noone will get a piston on his finger by pushing his right mouse-button to delete what is unwanted.

I see one good reason for everyone to be careful with his incoming files because they do make public what is queued or in progress which can be dangerous for those downloading critical stuff like zoophilia or maybe high-prized apps or, or, or... And there maybe people who wouldn't even like their friends to know what kinds of fetishes they're after

Well, but there is an option to unshare each file in each folder in such cases.

KM · « **Reply #6 on:** September 30, 2006, 07:15:04 pm »

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And there maybe people who wouldn't even like their friends to know what kinds of fetishes they're after

which means either not sharing incoming (my incoming isn't shared for most of my copies of MX) or of course multiple copies of WinMX (or possibly using another p2p app)

of course ideally there would be some system (probably in the form of filtering results?) so that you could share an incomplete so if someone is getting the complete from elsewhere they can get a speed boost from you via AFS, but without having your incomplete in search results for someone to start trying to get something they can't finish... but that's not the case so...

Bearded Blunder · « **Reply #7 on:** September 30, 2006, 08:56:15 pm »

there is also (unfortunately) still the issue of fakes..
the site isn't read exclusively by dll users & i certainly wouldn't encourage anyone to share incomplete fakes, they cause enough damage without yet another user being returned as a result on them....