New Client

[White Stripes]

@TOAD its currently in an unstable alpha state but functions such as chat, search, channel list, and.. technically... transfers (multisource and 'load incomplete files' does not work)  IIRC it also does not allow secondary connections to prevent a potential bad experience for that secondary...

[TOAD]

So it's in the same state as 3 years ago.

[White Stripes]

like to lend a hand to fix that?

[GhostShip]

At the current time I am still working on the OpenNap side of things and Will has been tinkering with other areas that are already in place to fix up some of the issues during the last year, we have both been hindered by lack of time due to increased real life work loads, however as your aware we did create some documentation and web pages to support others in building opennap compatible programs, this has after all always been part of what goes on here, its not just a case of turning out a few finished items and hoarding all the protocols and helpful tools and knowledge to ourselves, the project was directed at replacing the Winmx client in the long terms and to build up a developer community as we went along, that's been the goal and while we all agree its been a long and rough road we have been following the long term strategy as well as doing our best to bring an actual finished client to you all, that's not easy when theres so few able to work on the client and so few willing to learn how to help, does anyone really think theres a vast conspiracy at WMW to sit on our thumbs instead of pushing on towards what the community needs desperately ?

During the remaining time allocated to us this year I will be looking for a trusted volunteer to create a master list of items to complete and also discussing with others here to prioritize the jobs into some sort of most effective order, this hasn't been done much so far as there are still parts I want completed internally in the client and thus they have automatic priority but for the sake of transparency I am happy to get a list together so we can all count down the fixes and bug removals as well as the completed features to an end, this sounds to me the best way to prevent frustration from folks, and count me amongst those folks, we have all passed the half way mark in terms of network implosion and that's something I am sad about but have no real control over any of the attackers activities, I said aloud at the time that this would occur and I named the person responsible for unleashing the mindless attacks on our network, I will continue with others to try to pick up the pieces and work with those whom wish to bring something to the table, this is a community problem and we are putting in effort still but its not a problem we control and thus please bear that in mind before becoming angry, committed WinMX users will always achieve more working together.

 

[TOAD]

I sense apathy here.

[GhostShip]

I sense trivial baiting.

Are we achieving anything with this exchange ?

[RebelMX]

GS, The primary UDP protocol, with this protocol there appears to be no keep alive packet like the TCP one, what time limits have you imposed for a dropped primary - or have you linked the TCP keep alive packet to the primary UDP socket timeout code?

Thanks,

[TOAD]

Ghostship, you would make a good politician.

If there is such a thing. 

[GhostShip]

Ghostship, you would make a good politician

I hope I am not seen as bad as those types of folks, they start out with enthusiasm and ideals but end up looking for new ways to cut the bottoms out of our pockets and trickle a lot of the revenue into their own, nothing of that sort goes on here but i do enjoy a fruitful discussion, we all gain from such exchanges, many WinMx users are skilled professionals in their real life trade and a lot started the trail of online learning by dealing with problems encountered whilst using this network, I myself have learned many new skills, knowledge shared is gold in the bank.

I will be replying to RebelMx In private message.

[Plum]

Since you have said in the past the exploits are really on the primary portion maybe make a the code able to have a conditional compile and make it so you can remove/add the primary portion with a simple #define statement, or put the primary code in a dynamically linked library that only gets linked at run time with the said define statement, then put the code on GitHub just as the secondary client only no primary code.

Can even put the full code base in a PRIVATE GitRepo either on GitHub or GitLab or BitBucket or somewhere else, that way you don't have to keep just zipping up the code and passing it around among who ever is currently developing it.

Another thing would be that if you have used any GPL code in your code (RoboMX is GPL) already you must follow the instructions of the GPL which includes licensing the deriviitve work under a license compatible with GPL and releasing the source.

That is the reason why Bender made his code GPL other people who used his work for future projects would have release their code as open source as well

Also the point of GitHub would be the code would be out there for people who are willing to commit not all their times but just small portions of if here and there to developing it.  You would even have a proper issue/bug tracker rather than using a SMF forum as a bug tracker.

At the moment I do not have a butt load of time to devote to this project however I would be willing to take a peek now and then at an issue tracker and the code to see if can't knock down 1 bug.  But the current way you guys share the code between one another does not work in a decentralized environment. 

Do the right thing release at least the secondary code on GitHub in a public repo if you need a private repo and don't want to pay the low fee GitHub charges for one I can offer a couple alternatives including BitBucket and GitLab (haven't tried GitLab yet but it looks very promising may start moving my private repo's there) then it can finally be called OurMX and actually mean it right now it's more like YourMX with how closed it is after promises of open source.

There is a GPL loophole. You can also have a private negotiation with the other projects and get specific permissions to use outside of the GPL scope from them. So a team could sell the rights to a specific version of their GPL code to someone, if they wanted to, with no support given, and no option to use any newer code from them. GPL and the like exist as automatic permission. If you want to use it outside the scope of the license, then you'd have to see if the authors want to give you a private license, and in a way that doesn't weaken nor compete with the GPL license.

And none of this is to be construed as legal advice, nor is anything stated guaranteed to be correct nor fit.

[Plum]

Another solution is the "blob" approach. It is frowned upon in the open source community, but it is permissible. Now, what would be good would be to put the primary experiments in separate .DLL files and have the main code to check for them and only use their features if they exist -- assuming this is possible in Windows. Back to the GPL thing, you only have to open source what utilizes other open source code. So you can open the majority of the project with something that is usable, but keep additional or proprietary functionality in .DLL "blobs."

Off-topic, but I'm reminded of the Doom 3 controversy. Id software accidentally stepped on a patent. At the time, rather than challenge things, they coughed up royalties. Then when John Carmack (or was it John Romero?, both were a part of Id) decided to make the game engine open source (doesn't hurt revenue with games since the real value is in the logic, maps, graphics, and story line), he had to omit the code that appeared to be based on a patent. But he did rewrite that section from scratch to make it suitable for open source. It might not have been as optimized or robust, but it did work.

[GhostShip]

I can confirm no one i work with or myself or in fact anyone here is interested in proprietory versions or making money or anything of that ilk, this is about trying to use our combined brain power to find an "as-good-as-we-can-get " solution to the primary tcp network problem, i have had many concepts already thought up and some offer potential solutions but then we see not everyone wants to take up the ideas meaning we are going down a path of major incompatiblity and splintering of the community as a whole.

We need a great and secure network security model that can be open sourced and every developer we know of is happy to follow on and use in their own projects, this will means that we can all move ahead as a community and with minimal user disruption, thats the dream anyway, the secondary side of stuff can stay as it is in the meanwhile allowing for compatibility on at least one level with the older clients and associated userbase.

Thats the challenge then.



Btw Plum did you read this ?

https://forum.winmxworld.com/index.php?topic=13641.0.html

More minds on the job make for a faster solution 

[Plum]

Yes, I read the link hours before you posted that. I am a self-led person, and it is impossible for me to miss something that I might be interested in, since my approach to life is that of a self-led loner who always exhausts one's own resources before reaching out, so I'd be offended if you thought it was possible for me not to see that, that I had to be taught, babied, prompted, reminded, or anything else. I am a self-contained adult and need others to assume that about me, that I don't need them unless I somehow say I do. I might respond to that, but since it is being pushed onto me, I might not now. For me, things are always okay for me until others ruin it, force help on me, or presume to teach me anything. But I'm not as bad as Groucho Marx who said he'd never join any organization that would have him as a member. So a group that really wanted him quickly adopted an antisemitic policy (he was at least part Jewish of course), and he fought to get to be a member (like they wanted).

I never said anyone wanted to make money. I was suggesting the "proprietary" blob module concept. You can take advantage of distributing only binaries for the primary protocol while GPLing the rest. While it is frowned upon, it is legal and an accepted practice. The motives would be different. It isn't that you are protecting income, but protecting the concept. It is turning the commercial thing on its head, since they want to know the protocol to protect their bottom line. So it isn't protecting your bottom line, but protecting the users from other people's bottom line. So you can GPL most of it now except the protocol and rely on your own "blobs" for now, and then open them up when they are mature. So you harness the open source model while protecting the immature pieces.

[GhostShip]

I understood your reasons for suggesting the release model you did, however I often get folks here who are pretty much impolite and paranoid whom have no trust and expect everyone to think and act as they do, now as much as I trust myself and most others trust me we still have to cater for such folks and their wishes, thus I cannot afford the continuing luxury of developing in secret if theres likely to be little if any of the community left to cater for in the longer run, I need more minds, free-thinkers and positive folks able to assist in rapidly creating a solid model that's acceptable to all and trusted by at the least the majority of the current userbase, this is the reason I pointed you to a specific topic as you clearly have something the community might benefit from, folks that don't want to assist are free not to, theres no one here bar me doing the asking so feel free to remain unpushed, independent and generally doing your own thing, I on the other hand would be remiss to ignore folks with helpful potential when I need such potential.

[ale5000]

What is happened to www.ourmxworld.com ?

[silicon_toad2000]

try .net

[White Stripes]

off topic but site says "Unable to send e-mail. Contact the site administrator if the problem persists." .. apparently i registered there since it says my email is registered but i dunno what username or password i used O_o

[Plum]

Thanks Ghostship. I should have seen that was why you invited me, but I still have a chip on my shoulder I'm still struggling to get past. I will check things out. I am not sure it is a commitment that I want. I am not a programmer, but have more of a solutions provider mentality. I've programmed in real mode using QB and assembly., but I don't know C, C++, how to write for protected mode, how to write for Windows, etc.