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WinMX World :: Forum  |  Discussion  |  WinMx World News  |  Going Dutch ?
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Author Topic: Going Dutch ?  (Read 4030 times)

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Offline GhostShip

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Going Dutch ?
« on: May 15, 2005, 12:54:26 pm »
Interesting article here for those in the Netherlands.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/13/dutch_isps_fight_back/

Quote
Five Dutch ISPs will launch a "procedure on the merits" action against Dutch anti-piracy organisation Dutch Protection Rights Entertainment Industry Netherlands (BREIN). As reported yesterday, BREIN intends to sue the ISPs next month to obtain the identity of 42 individuals suspected of illegally swapping copyrighted music. The ISPs believe a normal summary proceeding or kort geding will not allow a full investigation of the merits or otherwise of BREIN's case. A procedure on the merits demands such investigation.


Seems they want to be sure that there is evidence to support the requests for the file sharers identities.

what I also found rather useful was the interesting tactic of "snowballing" the authorities with requests for information held by them.
Under data protection rules, they are legally obliged to answer all queries of this nature, so this sounds like a useful legal strategy  :)

Offline GhostShip

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Going Dutch ?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2005, 01:34:22 pm »
The stakes have got higher it seems, now a Warner representative has openly spoken about blackmailing the ISPs, with the childish threat of a content embargo, unless private and confidential user details are passed on without question.  

http://constitutionalcode.blogspot.com/2005/06/warner-to-isps-content-for-names.html

Folks today its Dutch ISP,s and tomorrow its your personal information they will require, lets give this bunch of folks the finger, get busy in your own communities and show Warner that we can all work together to erase their name from common usage, boycott their products and dont help them by mentioning their releases, lets see how they like being ignored.

Offline GhostShip

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Going Dutch ?
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2005, 02:47:18 pm »
No doubt the Cartels though that a double whammy of propaganda would be good as this was released today too :roll:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050616/tc_afp/netherlandsmusicfilm

Quote
An internet piracy watchdog has called on the Dutch judicial authorities to force five internet access providers to hand over personal data on people downloading music and films on a large scale.

 The five internet providers in question -- UPC (UGC), Wanadoo (France Telecom) Tiscali, KPN and Essent Kabelcom -- have refused to hand over the data the Brein Foundation needs to identify on the pirates, saying this would be a breach of privacy.


I would have though that it would be common sense for the dutch ISP companies to make sure things are done within a legal framework, the Cartel has to learn that the rule of law is slow but fair.

legal procedures are in place for them to obtain this information , but they usually have no evidence to back up their claims in court, and so prefer to harass the ISP,s to gain the info without caring  whether the person named on the court documents (the subscriber) is in fact the person operating the computer, a vital legal point, as in most civilised countries you cannot sue "persons unknown"

My advice to the Cartel ? Get a decent legal advisor and sack some of the pathetic spin doctors you employ, the rule of law will prevail over your childish antics.

Offline GhostShip

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Going Dutch ?
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2005, 03:30:17 am »
This article describes another legal happening that could have an impact on p2p users.

http://constitutionalcode.blogspot.com/2005/06/dutch-supreme-court-advised-isp-must.html

Quote
The Dutch Supreme Court has been advised to decide that the ISP Lycos has to hand over the personal data of an anonymous customer to a private third party. The so-called "Advocaat-Generaal", a neutral counsel to the Supreme Court on cases brought before the court, apparently follows the conclusion in an earlier ruling by the Amsterdam Court of Appeals in the Lycos v. Pessers case.


I think this should be rejected on the grounds that it will generate frivilous claims and misrepresentations by the Cartel to gain information that gives the "suspected/alleged infringer" no legal right to due process of law or privacy, handing out private and therefore privileged information should only be done when a court orders it based on legal merit, rather than treat ordinarys citizens right s like candy bars in a shop, up for sale.

Offline GhostShip

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Going Dutch ?
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2005, 07:40:10 pm »
The Dutch piracy folks are going after games console modifiers it seems.

 http://www.dmeurope.com/default.asp?ArticleID=8918

Quote
Games piracy in the Netherlands includes the modification and sale of games consoles and related software that have their anti-copying devices (both hard- and software) circumvented.

Brein (The Dutch Anti Piracy Organisation) takes action based on Dutch legislation, which forbids tampering with such devices.


I think this is the start of the legalised monopoly, by closing the market to third parties who are able to use this technology to make console games that do not have to pay revenue to the console makers we are making a rod for our own backs, remember folks if it packed with DRM its not worth having, and a PC is always a better investment in my opinion.

Offline GhostShip

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Going Dutch ?
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2005, 06:40:06 pm »
Terrible news folks ... For the Cartel  :lol:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/12/dutch_p2p_case/

Quote
The court ruled that BREIN made a crucial mistake in collecting evidence against the individuals. BREIN hired US company Media Sentry, which monitors popular online forums and P2P services for copyright infringement and tracks unauthorised online distribution. Apparently the company only looked at shared folders of Kazaa, but these folders may also have contained files for personal use, the court argues. There is not enough proof that these particular files were uploaded.


I,m glad that the extortion racket has been seen for what it was and the perpetrators sent away( for now) with a flea in their ears.

Offline GhostShip

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Going Dutch ?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2005, 07:39:12 pm »
Oops the "pay twice" scheme is here again..

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/04/levy_mp3/

Quote
A controversial proposed tax in the Netherlands on MP3 players of as much as € 3.28 ($4.30) per gigabyte has been revised, though still not enough to please the electronics industry.

A new proposal by the Foundation Onderhandeling Thuiskopievergoeding (SONT), which negotiates between hardware manufacturers and the collecting agency Stichting Thuiskopie, suggests a surcharge of €0.20 per 32MB with a maximum of €1 and €8 to €25 for audio players with a hard disk of 10GB or more. There also will be a tax on DVRs of €0.15 per gigabyte. SONT believes the levy will be more tolerable than the previous proposed tax, which was to put €180 ($235) to the price of a top end iPod.

However, ICT Office, the 450 members strong Dutch trade association for IT, Telecom and Office industries, has already condemned the new proposal. Spokesman Bernd Taselaar said Friday that the proposed levy ignores European policies and will hurt business. Other critics say that levies on MP3 players are outmoded, as more and more users buy content online, which means that copyright is being purchased twice over if a levy is also paid. The proposal also seem to ignore the fact that hard disc capacity is growing every few months. Introducing a levy would make hardware unjustly expensive.


Folks who gets the cash when you buy a CD or online download ?

How fair is it for them to obtain money like this stealth tax for something your already paying for ?

Some greedy organisations never learn in my opinion, and they continue trying this same trick on in many other countries too, perhaps the consumers may wish to make the point clear to their representatives that you shouldnt be asked to pay for the same music twice and risk being sued into the bargain.

They cant have it both ways, either they wish the right to sue or they shut up and take the levy on products, they cannot morally do both.

Offline GhostShip

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Going Dutch ?
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2005, 10:56:19 am »
This is an unfortunate decision but at least it was done within the correct legal framework.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8E3J9K83.htm?campaign_id=apn_home_down&chan=db

Quote
The Dutch Supreme Court on Friday ordered Internet company Lycos to reveal the identity of a client in a benchmark decision on privacy that was praised by copyright groups as a way to go after illegal swapping of music and movies online.
It is the first ruling of its kind in the Netherlands on Internet privacy and could have far reaching consequences for other Internet providers.

The country's highest court ruled that Lycos had wrongly protected the identity of a user who anonymously posted slanderous allegations against an Internet postage stamp dealer on a member site.

"The court considers it probable that the information posted on the web site is illegal and damaging to Pessers," the ruling said. "Pessers has a genuine interest in obtaining the client's details and there is no other way to obtain them."

The Brein Institute, which represents the global entertainment industry in the Netherlands, said in a statement the ruling will enable it to seek damages from people who illegally swap copyrighted software, music and movies over the Internet.


I hope the music industry are not stupid enough to try to gain advantage from this sort of ruling as it has been made quiet clear it only applies in this case because there was no other way of discovering the identity of the alleged slanderer.
I suspect the personal details of any of the Brein team may now be obtained in the same way so they can also be sued for calling folks "pirates and theives" a clear case to answer and a good way of receiving their personal and private data.
Brein have admitted to using media sentry before and lost cases so there case is weakened by the fact that they will once again have to provided legal proof of wrong doing as doing it from the US was found to be illegal.

Lets see how this one goes down with the Dutch people who will probably just use fake names to get internet accounts, a sure way of avoiding legal liability  :lol:

Offline GhostShip

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Going Dutch ?
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2005, 05:38:03 am »
An interesting new product although not a sharing device as such

http://www.mp3newswire.net/stories/5002/lamabox.html

Quote
In the Netherlands the courts have ruled that it is legal to download music and movie files from the Internet, it is just not legal to upload. It is the act of uploading the constitues copyright infringement according to the court's interpretation of Dutch law. To call the LamaBox a file sharing appliance, therefore, is really incorrect. It is really a file taking appliance as it complies with Dutch law and only downloads, not uploads.
 
What also makes the LamaBox unique is that it does not limit its queries to one network or another. When a user plugs in the specific song or movie thay are looking for the LamaBox searches through the FastTrack, Gnutella, eDonkey networks. It also utilizes BitTorrent technology allowing the unit to poll various torrent sites. Details are sketchy as to what sites, important as many are being shut down by the major media conglomerates. Networks like FastTrack are also under legal pressure to make changes to their technology so future firmware upgrades will be needed for the LamaBox to stay current


I can see this annoying some recording industry folks if only for the fact that it blatantly shows folks that its just the uploading of copyrighted material in most countries that make file sharing illicit.
The industry often try to blur this to their advantage, this will open up the light on something that many folks are confused about.

Offline GhostShip

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Re: Going Dutch ?
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2006, 03:14:09 am »
This could prove an interesting decision, it asfter all an important one

http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=1223

Quote
The Court of Appeals in Amsterdam, Netherlands, judged that knowingly operating a website which enhances the availability of MP3 files on the Internet is illegal. Techno Design, the company behind Zoemp3.nl, created a search engine that linked to copyrighted MP3 files. Until yesterday’s ruling, this type of search engine was not illegal; providing copyrighted MP3 files were not on Techno Design’s (or similar owner’s) server.

“Rex”, administrator of MyBitTorrent.com stated
“I think Dutch BitTorrent sites will be 'safe' for now. The biggest Dutch sites haven't been contacted by BREIN yet, so they do not need to worry. Also ZoekMP3.nl was linking to intellectual property and sites like myBittorrent.com only link to metadata, which is NOT copyrighted!”

No doubt we shall see more court action to try to wittle folks rights down to none as that is how these Carels operate in their quest for unlimited and undemocratic power.

Offline GhostShip

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Re: Going Dutch ?
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2006, 11:33:39 am »
Hold the horses folks  :o

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/21/partitality_questioned/

The impartiality of two of the judges who ruled that Dutch website Mp3search.nl broke the law by posting links to copyrighted files has been called into question.

Quote
Last Friday, an appeals court in the Netherlands ruled that facilitating MP3 downloads through a search engine, even when those files are not hosted by the search engine itself, is in violation of Dutch law.
However, reader comments on the Dutch news site Webwereld, which reported on the case, pointed out that two of the three judges involved in the decision are members of organisations that support professional musicians or (music) rights holders.
One of the judges is a member of Comité Executif de l'Association Littéraire et Artistique (an international agreement aimed at protecting literary and artistic copyright), whose Dutch subsidiary includes the managing director the Dutch Association of Phonogram and Videogram Producers (NVPI), who is behind anti-piracy organisation BREIN. BREIN took the website to court.

Dutch lawyer Christiaan A Alberdingk Thijm, who defended Mp3search.nl against BREIN two years ago, said the impartiality of the court was not his biggest concern.
"What bothers me more is that this case wasn't defended at all," , "The ruling is inherently contradictory.
While the court decided not to rule on the issue of copyright infringement by Mp3search.nl, it applied a statement of the WIPO copyright treaty to conclude that the site acted unlawful

I wonder why these judges did not disqaulify themselves over this obvious and very serious conflict of interest, honesty it seems is a hard commodity to locate these days.

Offline GhostShip

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Re: Going Dutch ?
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2006, 11:58:43 pm »
Looks like its not so easy to obtain information from ISP's without proper proof of wrong-doing

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/14/fileswappers_protected/

Quote
A Dutch appeals court has thwarted attempts by the Dutch anti-piracy organisation BREIN to get the identities of file-sharers from five ISPs, including Wanadoo and Tiscali.

The court found that the manner in which IP addresses were collected and processed by US company MediaSentry had no lawful basis under European privacy laws. A lower court in Utrecht had reached a similar conclusion last year.
The court also argued that the software MediaSentry uses can't properly identify users or provide evidence of infringement.

Last year, expert witnesses at Delft University of Technology criticised MediaSentry's software for being too limited and simplistic. For instance, MediaSentry took filenames in Kazaa at face value. More importantly, the software scans all the content of the shared folder on the suspect's hard disk. In that process, it breached privacy laws.

The Dutch Protection Rights Entertainment Industry Netherlands (BREIN) represented 52 media and entertainment companies and has been investigating 42 people suspected of swapping song files. Nine file-sharers decided to settle with BREIN.
BREIN says it will go to a higher court, but lawyer Christiaan Alberdingk Thijm, who represented the ISPs, sees the decision as an important victory.


I see this as a victory for common sense, provide decent evidence and there is no problem, provide flawed evidence that broke laws in being gathered and expect to be laughed out of court.

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