Yes, exactly. That's what I mean. Usually in this kind of case they buy the product and then re-brand it as something else, often making it a much worse product in the process (because whenever Norton changes something, they make it worse; that's just how these things go) and making it worthless to purchase, but keep it still available so that stupid users (aka sheep who read their newsletter) buy it anyway and predictably waste money on it. in this case Simantec actually, in a very litteral sense, paid Sigate to get out of their market. It disturbs me that they'd be this cutthroat over a firewall product whenn Norton's big thing has historically been its anti-virus. I mean, it's not any better than its firewall products (which are, indeed, terrible) but they're more well known, at least.