Author Topic: Where is the new Winmx ? (Read 25764 times)

Pri · « **Reply #20 on:** July 13, 2014, 11:14:24 pm »

Quote from: GhostShip on July 13, 2014, 10:23:24 pm

To decode the output of Josh's roomlist requires an additional code page to do the parsing, fixing the primary involves no such library nor the further usage of Josh's site thus this should be the focus of the effort, simply adding work arounds ad-infinitum wont get us to the finish unfortunately and while the clone is getting better each day we need to pull together with those that can be bothered and set some things down in stone as otherwise folks like myself will have to step into the breach and maybe not even do the best job which is disappointing when you know there are many who have great ideas and opinions on security and networking techniques, none of us knows everything but between us all we can make a decent stab at crafting a decent framework on which to build an improved network protocol.

You added the web list to the software I figured you'd want it to work properly. It only has one bug. If you wanted to parse it on WinMXWorld you could do so, Tiny4eva already did on his site for his room list. There is also one on my own site that Find Room uses, this parses it in an encoding that Metis can understand I'm sure your client could use it too.

Quote from: GhostShip on July 13, 2014, 10:23:24 pm

Pri you are right we would never get on, trust does not exist between us, that wont however stop me reading what you post as with all of the posts here, but could you please try to stick to your own opinions when posting here and not talking about third parties who may or may not agree with your statements as being divisive in this manner is a bit of a low blow effort in putting others on the spot who may not want you to highlight their private opinions.

I would prefer they post for themselves if they have a gripe so the community can see openly the names of those who have refused to assist with fixing the network and instead hidden out for nearly 3 years hiding behind some lame excuse that only wmw can run such a project while they site idle and they dont like me

I await a string of third party posts echoing your views Pri, I need a good laugh

I think most of these people have already made their feelings known to you on a number of occasions lol

GhostShip · « **Reply #21 on:** July 13, 2014, 11:44:36 pm »

Unfortunately not, I haven't heard from Josh since I asked him to help pin the tail on the node IP's that the attackers are operating out of, his network statistics tool could have been modified to do just that but he obviously decided that's not something he should be bothered with, much more peaceful to run a chat list

Hollow, Sean, Richy and many others have excused themselves in public from the ourMx project on the grounds of not having the specific skillset to code with, this is a valid reason not to take part but that may not be the case according to your posts, that's why I said they should post themselves if they have a gripe as the folks might not comprehend why they don't work as a team in a language of their choice and run a parallel project if they don't want to work with me or Will, so you can see why I have suggested laziness as an alternative reason based on what you suggested was their rationale for not taking part.

I look forward to you and others doing great things when the src is made open, its just a shame that the same folks doing all the work will be the only ones bothering to help reach that stage.

Pri · « **Reply #22 on:** July 14, 2014, 10:19:40 am »

This is what I said originally that sparked this thing.

Quote from: Pri on July 13, 2014, 06:46:41 pm

And I agree with you that there are people watching from the sidelines who can help but choose not to. But you have to identify that the reason they choose not to help isn't just based on one reason. Many people have good intentions and want to help but they don't want to deal with you personally or they don't want to be integral or they just want to fix one thing that annoys them about the client. Some people want to work solitarily and not have to talk to other people but they could still fix a bug or two. And there is also the potential for the project to be forked and improved upon away from what you're doing and then you can backport well made changes into yours.

I was giving examples as to why you may be facing resistence in finding help. I never said every programmer on WinMX doesn't want to work with you or even that the programmers you just mentioned (Hollow, Sean, Richy) have said that to me.

I suggested avenues to get people on board that removes barriers. Here is a list of reasons why people may not want to work on this project and not all the reasons apply to every person it only needs one reason.

1. The project is not open source, some people have a problem with a non-profit "community" project being closed source
2. Past bad blood between you and some of the programmers.
3. Difficulty in affecting change in the project, I can't even get you to use Github over IM'ing sources between programmers
4. Not being able to code in the language the project is currently in
5. Not having the time to devote to being an integral part of the project, instead just wanting to make smaller changes
6. Needing to be vetted by you first before being given any source code
7. Constant aura of mistrust, potential helpers may not even get the entire source but only a small portion to work on

Personally for me reason 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, and 7 would make me not want to be involved. I cannot speak for others but I can have an educated guess that more than a few of them would put themselves out for one or more of these reasons above.

But honestly I've mentioned this quite a few times already, WCB has a primary protocol implementation and can be modified to cause all kinds of disruption. There is also the source for RoboMX, a secondary client. People can modify these to do all kinds of things if they wanted. I don't see how keeping the source code of OurMX secret stops further attacks.

And finally you could just open source all the parts that don't use the WinMX Peer Network Protocol.

GhostShip · « **Reply #23 on:** July 14, 2014, 05:46:04 pm »

Why you seem to want to make a bit play of how drama ridden some programmers are is beyond me , real programmers such as Eagle, KM, Bender, Will and others just get on with the job, they don't have time to care about politics or personalities, the network and its users has always been paramount, anything else is just scattered bird seed and a waste of everyones time.

I like to think I made my own feelings clear a few posts back, the option you set out delivers a poor return for the community when stacked against the immediate and real security issues with open sourcing the current OurMX codebase.

Read how many other felt about eagles patch back in the day, I think you'll see openly that the feeling of folks is stacked against putting all of the communities work in the hands of wannabe attackers.

https://forum.winmxworld.com/index.php?topic=5396.0.html

Some of you may find it quite ironic that the main drama focused on KM and his claims regarding the Eagle patch, claims that have over time been shown to be false. Its amazing what folks say while they are pushing an agenda when examined many years later with a cool head.

silicon_toad2000 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 14, 2014, 10:10:13 pm »

Lets pull this back onto a productive track.
I think all this has been covered before in other threads.

summary: correct me if i'm wrong

1) there's other coders who could help and would likely help somewhat under different conditions.
2) there's a case for and against open sourcing the project and the current dev team choose not to until it's at a different stage.

theres more and more non constructive stuff leaking into the convo here

can you put a project on github and only allow certain people access? or allow some access to some bits and not others?

GhostShip · « **Reply #25 on:** July 14, 2014, 10:22:22 pm »

From what Pri has stated you can indeed lock access to selected parts Silicon, however I havent seen Will talk of making any of the src open until we are both happy theres no exploits being handed out, I dont know much about github but its most certainly not anywhere near as safe as on our own home hard drives, all it takes is someone to figure out an attack method against github and we lose everything.

My apologies for going a tad off topic but I was growing weary with repeating the same line and rationale for that line and hearing Pris mantra in return, the issue is we wont agree on this point .

White Stripes · « **Reply #26 on:** July 15, 2014, 12:46:23 am »

if someone attacked github you would have a horde of angry coders 1) fixing the bug 2) finding and punishing said attacker to full extent possible by law.....

no im not taking any side here but even the mpaa/riaa have to have court orders to mess with github so i doubt anyone will attack it to get to ourmx...

White Stripes · « **Reply #27 on:** July 15, 2014, 01:01:41 am »

just curious but where are the other programmers? why no posts from them?

GhostShip · « **Reply #28 on:** July 15, 2014, 01:13:24 am »

Most online sites suffer some sort of successful attack throughout their span of operation.

Tbh I cant comprehend of any clear reason for wasting time to throw all of the work up on a site, when the already time stretched OurMx coders are the ones who's time would be wasted doing that task even, this is beginning to sound like a spoiling operation to me, perhaps its not but those able and willing do the work are already doing it, those who chose not to or demand special facilities should not be allowed to divert precious time from that ongoing effort.
Open sourcing code that's capable of near immediate exploit is the height of stupidity put simply and will start yet another set of fighing within the community, I don't wish to be associated with creating such a mess.

I say again clearly nothing stands in the way of those who want to go their own way in this matter, I will even assist where possible if a second effort is made to deliver something faster using the untapped resources Pri seems sure exist out there, but OurMx is not yet ready for you all to mess with at this time nor am I willing to spare further time to add yet further tasks for myself while others sit idle, how many more task should be heaped upon those already going further than most in their efforts to restore our network, I like to think the common sense answer is nothing further.

[update] Just read your last post Stripes, There are only two of us making all the running at this time and I think you can see why no one but myself with a vested interest in the operation of this site being a long time staff member here wishing to get embroiled in discussion regarding what-ifs and general directional discussions, coding is whats required and thats where Wills time will be devoted even If I slack off to come here and face the public at intervals.

NISSE · « **Reply #29 on:** July 15, 2014, 07:47:29 am »

Looking in from the outside am I right in saying this new client is a long long way from completion.

RebelMX · « **Reply #30 on:** July 15, 2014, 05:05:45 pm »

Can I add my 2 pence worth in. Since I've been mentioned as a developer - not sure I'd use that description my skills are pretty basic.

I would personally love to assist. I'm 99% sure some code portions have been ported into C++ by Will from the primary client I showed and shared with him I was/am working on about 3 years ago. I don't have the time to dedicate to this project, I work full time, am in the middle of studying for my qualifications (nothing to do with computers) and changing job, as well as various social lives I try to lead. Additionally, my skills are limited to self taught C mainly from the WCS source which has been honed and improved by making RSWCS (whether people like, use or trust it is entirely a different matter).

However. If there was a way for me to read source sections and understand how they work (i.e. C++ and C aren't THAT different) and fix bugs, add new functions or features etc without having to find someone on mx/IM to get an update of where we are etc that would be amazing. We have a Core section on WMW, why not have github (or whatever alternative) set up for a select group of users. Initially only yourself and Will perhaps. Then section off the gui and secondary protocol?

I've worked on this primary project on and off with Piney for about a year before he fell into the background of WMW and have continually been tweaking it. As you know GS I've been looking into and uncovering parts of the protocol (such as the region markers which it seems you/Will have implemented into OurMX). I even requested a secondary protocol default file to be able to drop the OpenNap protocol into save me writing it in C for my project and then it being ported into C++. You said you would follow up on it and never did.

I'm happy to help on the project and add my expansive WPN knowledge to the protocol side (gui I'm useless at due to using C) from a programmers understanding. That is most likely where Will has struggled as you yourself GS admitted that you know the theory of the protocol but aren't a coder. I understand the protocol in alot of detail, how it interacts and works etc, and I know how to write the code to replicate it also.

Call it a waste of time, or that I'm too lazy to help. I've offered, I've produced products to show I'm serious and even offered you a much better name than OurMX. I cringe every time I read and see it - WynMX was and still is a much better name. It helps with the promotional side of things, it has an easy tag line, its multi level clever name, and it sounds and reads well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wynn
Stands for joy. It is also the name of the þÞ used on WinMX.
Tag Line: "Returning joy to the WþN."
WinMX logo's can be utilised with little adaption into WynMX. Basically a well constructed thought out name. Unlike OurMX!

Anyway, you're welcome to the primary client source I've got if it helps the OurMX client. Anything you want please just ask, I'm willing to help, but not 24/7. And to summarise I think Pri's idea is a good one and Pri and I don't ever see eye to eye and have never worked on a project together.

GhostShip · « **Reply #31 on:** July 15, 2014, 05:34:26 pm »

We have src a plenty Richy and yes you are one of the few who from day one has offered to help when I can see something for your skillset, we have a primary section already in place but theres a bug in it and that's the sort of help I need, to finish off what we already have rid ourselves of the poorly designed bits and implement new routines to end these mindless attacks and then open src the whole thing with the communities blessing, we do all want the same thing and its simply a matter of small print how we reach that stage, I just don't feel now is the best time to release something that can be turned on the community, its like handing out weapons and wondering why folks have abused them, the answer is to stay the course and keep development rolling while ensuring we wont hear folks say I told you so later on down the line, I have seen enough of such talk to last me a lifetime and this is the last project I will be running for the community so I want it to be remembered for the right reasons and hand on something good for us all that wont suffer as winmx has from being closed src and exploitable by those in the know, I hope that is clear to all of you reading this topic.

I haven't yet spoken to Will about the src you requested Richy simply because hes very busy at work and in between projects he assists me and tidys up the bugs, that is why we move along slowly but we do move along and theres plenty of code in the bank that's helpful to reuse in other client areas, its simply not enough hands on deck that's the holdup and for that I can only apologise, but as you know I am doing my best and will continue to do so.

RebelMX · « **Reply #32 on:** July 15, 2014, 06:31:38 pm »

Well the offer is there to look over and fix the primary. It's an area I've spent alot of time investigating and replicating in C so I have quite some idea as to how it works and I may have already fixed the bug in code that can easily be ported to OurMX *cringe*.

You're probably best getting me by PM on here or rebelion, then I'll hop onto MSN.

White Stripes · « **Reply #33 on:** July 16, 2014, 05:18:15 pm »

well... this thread seemed to go nowhere...

NISSE · « **Reply #34 on:** July 16, 2014, 07:20:13 pm »

Quote from: White Stripes on July 16, 2014, 05:18:15 pm

well... this thread seemed to go nowhere...

Just like the new client.

GhostShip · « **Reply #35 on:** July 16, 2014, 09:31:13 pm »

Where did you guys want the thread to go ?

And to correct you again NISSE, you mean the next beta not the actual client as you have already seen a version of that albeit in need of further love and care.

As s guy in a film once said "all these negative waves" ...

White Stripes · « **Reply #36 on:** July 16, 2014, 09:41:36 pm »

i was hoping for something more than an argument... did richy send a pm and provide anything useful?

GhostShip · « **Reply #37 on:** July 16, 2014, 10:18:58 pm »

No I think Richy is awaiting contact from my side of the fence and as I have mentioned publicly in this very topic Will is the man who is heading the project and he will contact me when hes in between work jobs and we will make a point of seeing what we can let out of the bag, hes a great coder but busy as heck and so in the main his current job is to patch up rewrite and generally make something out of the stuff I pull together, this wasn't always the case but now hes in full time employment we have to take what we can get timewise.

I haven't looked at this as an argument topic just yet, I think folks are simply wanting to get on board with helping due to the over long time frame and its right that they make that known to those who can possibly enable that, As I have stated my only real concern in such a move is to secure the primary area from abuse, its a lot more completed and complex that anything already publicly available as theres also comments specifying just what does what as you would expect with an open src ethos, I think we will move forward as a group soon but not this exact point in time simply because its just not ever going to safe to release whats currently running the primary network, future changes will mean we can all be happy in the end but and this is the key bit with changes that deny anyone the ability to hammer the network simply because they cant achieve their selfish wishes to make demands on the entire userbase, no one is in charge of this network and so a healthy respect for each other goes a long way in holding it together.

wonderer · « **Reply #38 on:** July 17, 2014, 12:39:16 am »

Quote from: White Stripes on July 15, 2014, 01:01:41 am

just curious but where are the other programmers? why no posts from them?

clever coder never waste time on pointless discussions that's why you don't see them posting

you have to wait and hopefully take what they have whipped up
you can only kindly request for new bugs/features
When you are lucky you asked the right feature and they start coding

that is the way it works with volunteer

White Stripes · « **Reply #39 on:** July 17, 2014, 02:12:47 am »

right feature? ok i make a humble request that search and transfers work... dont care if chat works or not lol...