Block the RIAA or Not?

[dabud]

i personally would not like to see a riaa block! you dont hunt for snakes in a haystack with the lights out! we should lobby for control of our music heratage would be the wisest choice but a long term one!
just wish we could set up an offshore server in a country or island much like banking in the caymens .   find some way to set up an untracable file share p2p system i think would be the best chance !

[..Ñøßߥ..]

a side note: the current poll results are 13 votes yes you should block, out of 13 total, and i don't think anyone is even slightly surprised by that result

only surprise is the point of such a pole, when we all knew the outcome.

[c2R]

i personally would not like to see a riaa block! you dont hunt for snakes in a haystack with the lights out! we should lobby for control of our music heratage would be the wisest choice but a long term one!

So you support the RIAA performing what is effectively a denial of service (and itself therefore of dodgey legallity in many countries) attack on the winmx network?

[dabud]

what you have to look at is action not reaction anyone can act on anger and injustice! the winner is usaully the one with a game plan and the best  team
we will not win by sending a few matadors into bull pen with red flags

[dennis]

I HEAR EVERYBODY GOING ON ABOUT THE RIA  PATCHES AND WINMX . WHAT  ABOUT THE PEOPLE ON WINMX WHO DONT SHARE THERE FILES THEY SEEM TO FIND MORE WAYS NOT TO SHARE NOW THAN WHEN WIN MX  FIRST CAME TO MY PC.  IT COULD ALL GO DOWN THE GURGLER IF SOMETHING ISN'T DONE. AND THANKS TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO PREVENT THAT,SO TO THOSE WHO THINK IT'S A GAME TO NOT SHARE THERE FILES THINK OF THE ALTERNATIVES.   SO STOP THINKING OF WAYS TO BLOCK PEOPLE FROM ACCESSING YOUR FILES  OTHERWISE ALL THE WORK PEOPLE PUT IN IS WASTED  IT'S NOT A GAME IT'S P2P SO SHARE YOUR ASSES OFF   THANKS FOR THE SPACE  THANKS FOR THE PATCH,  KEEP UP YHE GOOD WORK FOR THE COMMON GOOD

[dabud]

my files started with a few that i had cd copies of converted to mp3 so i would have something to share ! today i have a great library that library is a small part of the winmx music museum  a reservoir of music that will never grace a new cd sold in stores [not sufficent interest in the music to produce a cd ] is the common excuse of record companies when requests for outdated material is requested of them! so i will do my part to make sure i contribute to the winmx museum ! in my book winmx should be declared a heritage site! so lets all get together and keep winmx strong resorseful and there for future music fans and old foggies like myself!

[insert an old foggie icon here]

[c2R]

WHAT  ABOUT THE PEOPLE ON WINMX WHO DONT SHARE THERE FILES THEY SEEM TO FIND MORE WAYS NOT TO SHARE NOW THAN WHEN WIN MX  FIRST CAME TO MY PC.  IT COULD ALL GO DOWN THE GURGLER IF SOMETHING ISN'T DONE.

Using Leechammer is a very good way to prevent this.....

Chris

[GhostShip]

Nobby I along with the thousands of other folks just want you to be aware of the total support for blocking, anyone not accepting that folks armed with the knowledge of how to protect the network is hereby proven wrong.

I cannot see why you yourself do not run a blocklist as you are not in the US and you would then be someone who the folks could trust to take care of their concerns, simply taking no notice of suggestions will not make them go away as common sense has a habit of nipping ones toe a few times before its seen as such.

You understand I hope that I speak to you as the representative of the pie team not Nobby the person in this thread, I know your a nice guy but action is desperately needed.

[Mick]

I use Pie, but i have used KM's patch.   I use Peer Guardian 2 with the allow and block list from this site as well.

I read both sites and it takes forever to actually find some information in amongst all the fighting.

[Me Here]

Just to clarify, I have no intentions of fighting, my goal was to get an opinion honestly and simply if Pie patch users especially, but uesrs in general,  feel that its important for them to be informed of this problem.

[Bearded Blunder]

I'm a hosts file user, mostly through inertia, though perhaps not a typical user, as a room host also I'm doing what i can to encourage blocking amongst Pie users, & yes it tends to be an uphill struggle, but any small blow is worth it, if enough gnats bite an elephant (RIAA) it goes to eat elewhere (some other network).

As KM pointed out elsewhere, the typical user does the default thing, & quits working at it as soon as function is achieved..

My success rate at getting Pie users to block (Using Peer guardian) is increasing, owing to the effect that running without has directly upon them, a measure of the damage attributable to unprotected users, I've made it policy not to try to influence any user's choice of patch, although I'll suggest to users of either with problems that won't resolve to try the other...

The thing I would be most pleased to see would be some consensus on the best way to move forward, blocking WORKS, it NEEDS pushing.

[itsbry]

I use peergaurdian and leech hammer so i can only hope that it is enough to keep the net our own...

[Gus Morrison]

ONLINE OVER A WEEK NOW  UPLOADING HUNDREDS OF FILES EVERY DAY ONLINE 24/7 DID INSTALL THE NEW PATCH  THOUGH IT DID NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE STILL WORKING PERFECT .LOSING A FEW ON PROBABLY OLD VERSIONS AND THERE ISP,S I JUST TELL THEM IF THEY HAVE THERE CHAT ON TO KEEP CONNECTING DONT THINK I HAVE LOST ONE COMPLETE YET.ALSO DOWNLOADING A FEW I WANT.COME IN MY ROOM AND TRY TYPE STEVE SANDERS OR THE SINGING COOKES  .JUST SEE WHAT HAPPENS MOVING FILES AT 60 KS A SECOND VERY VERY FAST. SURE HAPPY WITH LOOKDSL AWESOME ISP, GUS

[Mick]

Was not a comment directed at you Me Here, just the people who seem to jump in on most forums and go away from the topic.

[Anonymous]

I think it is of the utmost importance that the hosts file users use a third party tool that blocks flooding of the WPN. People also need to be aware of the simple -c: -user filter when searching for files also.

[guessed]

Tell us what you think about blocking the RIAA from WinMX

We are truely interested to know the average users opinions on this subject, especially those of the hosts file or pie patch users as they are the ones that are allowing the RIAA onto this network, most without even knowing as the pie team has opted not to inform its patch users.

First, this is a very slanted dishonest poll.  It is not about blocking RIAA from WPN, because no solution yet exists to do that effectively.

"Do you feel its important for Hosts File users (Pie Users) to help Block the RIAA?

The question assumes hosts file users are not effectively helping.  and infers the others, the .dll users are.  Both are false, misleading characterisations.

It is significant that the pollsters make no effort to inform the users that this blocking is only relavent to primaries, not secondaries.

The subjective, loaded questions betrays the lack of any real interest in obtaining objective results.

Yes, I feel hosts file users should be informed of this option.    
   100%    
    100%     [ 20 ]

This question assumes users of the hosts file are ignorant and uninformed of their 'option' and implies there is only one option, singular.

=====

Nobby I along with the thousands of other folks just want you to be aware of the total support for blocking, anyone not accepting that folks armed with the knowledge of how to protect the network is hereby proven wrong.

Total support for blocking, if there is such a thing, obviously does not mean total support for the DLL 'final solution'.  Or else this 'poll' would be baseless.  I count 20 votes as of today.  Who are these 'thousands' and where are they?  Those who naively believe that the .DLL fix eliminates fake file flooding are the ones that are misguided and ill-informed.

Just to clarify, I have no intentions of fighting, my goal was to get an opinion honestly and simply if Pie patch users especially, but uesrs in general, feel that its important for them to be informed of this problem.

Sorry but I haven't seen any effort to fully inform the users on this from the admins of this forum/web site.  All I see is partisan, subjective sniping.

It doesn't attempt to target just primary users even though those are the only ones blocking is an issue for with current efforts.

All a tempest in a teapot.  If EVERY user was using the .dll fix, would fake file flooding be eliminated?  NO!

The existing mini-list of IPs may include some flooders for sure.  But it is naive and/or dishonest to present the .dll as a proven solution.  It is not.  And even if all flooder IPs were known, and blocked, it would take little more than a few minutes for the RIAA to open new accounts to flood from.  [Those who believe otherwise haven't been subjected to years of brutal war clan attacks over IRC channels by hoards of bored script kiddies.]  Afaik, there is no existing automated means to quickly detect new flooder IPs and add them to the block list.  It is not that it is 'not perfect', it is that it isn't even a thorough package yet.  All the pieces of the puzzle haven't yet been created.  So presenting the .dll as if it was THE answer in its current stage of development is disingenuous.


What is not mentioned in all of this is that while the hosts file fix is open and transparent and user editable and controllable and supports indy cache servers, the .dll is none of the above.  It is all controlled one person, the King Macro.  All operations are controlled by what HE decides the DLL to do, and by what IPs are assigned by him or his helper to the winmxgroup.com hostnames in the DNS server.

"Make me king and I'll protect you.. woof woof.." how many tyrants have attempted to take power with such pleas?

"Through illusions created, armies are justified." - John Trudell [1983]

With the .DLL. one person in the world controls the sole portal to connect to the winmx peer network.  Regardless of whether or not such a person is a benevolent dictator or selfless servant, it is still risky to revert to a single source portal, i.e. winmxgroup.com

I'd rather liked the idea of separation and dispersement of powers
 that came after winmx.com pulled the plug.  I'd prefer not to put all my eggs back in one basket.  If everyone stops thinking and learning and only knows how to point and click to install a .dll file, what happens when winmxgroup.com it threatened and pulls the plug or is compromised?  I think it is far better to multi-source as the hosts file provides and learn how they work.

To cripple the RIAA/MPAA flooders, we, the users, need more tools.  The paternal approach, "trust us, we'll protect you" is not enough.  We the users need the tools to detect and document those conducting these illegal DoS attacks.  Once we can record timestamped logs of their fake file flooding, we can take it to the next step, like filing complaints with their ISP or upstream providers and/or courts.

Power to the people.

[c2R]

To cripple the RIAA/MPAA flooders, we, the users, need more tools.  The paternal approach, "trust us, we'll protect you" is not enough.  We the users need the tools to detect and document those conducting these illegal DoS attacks.  Once we can record timestamped logs of their fake file flooding, we can take it to the next step, like filing complaints with their ISP or upstream providers and/or courts.

Power to the people.

Power to the people indeed.  But dear guest user, are you providing the tools?  Have you any better suggestions?  It's all very easy to sit there,  question and criticise, but what good does that do?  the riaa own copyright on the fakes, so their argument will be that they're not doing anything illegal....  Your all the eggs in one basket argument is interesting... yes....

[Anonymous]

To cripple the RIAA/MPAA flooders, we, the users, need more tools.  The paternal approach, "trust us, we'll protect you" is not enough.  We the users need the tools to detect and document those conducting these illegal DoS attacks.  Once we can record timestamped logs of their fake file flooding, we can take it to the next step, like filing complaints with their ISP or upstream providers and/or courts.

Power to the people.

Power to the people indeed.  But dear guest user, are you providing the tools?  Have you any better suggestions?  It's all very easy to sit there,  question and criticise, but what good does that do?  the riaa own copyright on the fakes, so their argument will be that they're not doing anything illegal....  Your all the eggs in one basket argument is interesting... yes....

The fact that I patent a newfangled laser weapon does not make it legal for me to use it on my annoying neighbors.  Neither does the fact that macrovision conceives and copyrights an attack tool allow them to evade laws prohibiting the abuse and interference with the peaceful enjoyment of the internet.  Fake file flooding is an illegal DoS attack by USA laws insofar as it impairs internet usage and access of innocent users.  We are not to be rendered 'collateral damage' in their war against perceived piracy.

As to the strawman argument, should one seeing a perilous cliff not warn others of it even if he does not know how to fly across the chasm?  Part of the solution is seeing the effect and need for something, even if one does not see or know how to implement the 'perfect solution'.  I do not attempt to coopt the whole game and take from others the ability to participate, contribute.  

[Me Here]

Guessed,
I am a bit surprised at this post after reading the ones in the Fake Files section that show you are completely unaware of how the list is made, how the IPs are detected and verified... again 'yet'.. hopefully you have an open mind enough to learn.

First, this is a very slanted dishonest poll. It is not about blocking RIAA from WPN, because no solution yet exists to do that effectively.

Agreed I didn't expect to get as many Pie Patch users as I would have liked, because after all this site is not the place to download that patch.  However, your reasoning's for feeling the poll is slanted in view are far from realistic.  You say there is no solution and yet you have no idea how the block list is made or maintained do you? Therefore you are not yet in a position to judge whether the blocklist or the dll are effective.

If you are as well read as you would like to sound then you already know that this poll and this subject have been the topic of much debate of late between the two main help sites.  The Pie Team have offered a patch, but no information on flooding, or protecting users and the WPN.  So yes I would expect most hosts file users not to have a clue about this.

The question assumes hosts file users are not effectively helping. and infers the others, the .dll users are. Both are false, misleading characterisations.
It is significant that the pollsters make no effort to inform the users that this blocking is only relevant to primaries, not secondaries.

This poll was not set up to educate anyone completely on details of the flooding, like who should be using the protection, what works..etc.. this was set up to see if the issue in the users minds warrants being discussed on sites where patches are available, esp patches that don't already have protection in them.  Full details are readily available in many threads, and on pages here:
https://www.winmxworld.com/tutorials/filtering_fakes.html

This question assumes users of the hosts file are ignorant and uninformed of their 'option' and implies there is only one option, singular.

Agreed, because up until a few days ago the pie sites had removed any and all information regarding protection or blocking.  I would expect the average user that just downloaded a patch and ran to be unaware.

Total support for blocking, if there is such a thing, obviously does not mean total support for the DLL 'final solution'. Or else this 'poll' would be baseless.

This is not an ad for the DLL that is obvious, where you see that I don't know.

I count 20 votes as of today. Who are these 'thousands' and where are they? Those who naively believe that the .DLL fix eliminates fake file flooding are the ones that are misguided and ill-informed.

The DLL cant eliminate flooding on its own .. Yet.. but the users that choose this option because of the flood protection are in the thousands I assure you, if you need download numbers just let me know.  Obviously we cant eliminate flooding on the network on our own which is why we hound the pie folks so bad, and also so they still know we love them and haven't forgotten they are here..

Sorry but I haven't seen any effort to fully inform the users on this from the admins of this forum/web site. All I see is partisan, subjective sniping.
It doesn't attempt to target just primary users even though those are the only ones blocking is an issue for with current efforts.

You maybe should do some more reading.

All a tempest in a teapot. If EVERY user was using the .dll fix, would fake file flooding be eliminated?

If every user was on the DLL this would be a non issue, you are again unaware of how the block list is made or maintained or just how good we are at keeping the RIAA at bay.  That list is a dynamic list and changes every few days, some of the new entries have been being used by Macrovision for literally minutes before they are detected and added to this list.

The existing mini-list of IPs may include some flooders for sure. But it is naive and/or dishonest to present the .dll as a proven solution. It is not.

You sir, are the one saying this is some dll campaign not us.  We were asking the pie folks to inform their users, which they are making great strives to do so.

Afaik, there is no existing automated means to quickly detect new flooder IPs and add them to the block list. It is not that it is 'not perfect', it is that it isn't even a thorough package yet. All the pieces of the puzzle haven't yet been created. So presenting the .dll as if it was THE answer in its current stage of development is disingenuous.

Oh, really.  Can you tell me how you have come to this conclusion, knowing full well you have got no clue of the automated system in place to detect new numbers with in minutes?

The rest of your comments are completely off topic as I mentioned.  Your the one spouting on about the dll verses the hosts file fix.. we just want the pie patch users informed and given the information to make up their own minds just as you have.

I read every post made on this site, except the ones that are not in English, and have seen you show up in the last few days, in reading your posts I see someone that came here hell bent on not appreciating what is being done or the efforts to better the network by working with the Pie Team to achieve this goal.  Albeit not a perfect world here, I suggest that you do a bit more reading and less assuming of what is going on.. you may learn something by accident..

[burrito]

i use pg2 and i dont download from winmx much but use torrents and mirc doesn't everyone ? im here to share , screw the riaa .i use winmx to share .