WINMX WORLD VS VLADD44

[chuck]

Gnarly i understand what you are saying and agree some what with you.

 But what you call
( irresponsible, rabid rhetoric trashing the use of hosts files)
is what is called in the real world as TRUTH.

 I agree with this as well
 (The community is not served by spreading unfounded claims, pro or con.  KM has a right to be proud of this work.  and nothing wrong with describing its advantages.  But in hyping the DLL, there is no need to snipe at the alternatives.  especially by making overbroad assertions.)

 Calling the pie host file a alternative is like compairing a Jet to a jackass. They both will get you some where .

 Why don't you just tell us the merit of using the host file over the DILL? How would it be better for the WPN and the users? What can the Pie host file do that the DILL can not?

 Be sure to also say what the Dill does to better the WPN and the user's experience,You wouldn't want to be one sided. Would you?

 The time is now for informing the people and not continuing with the confusion the all new users face when they look at WinMX (Which do i use the Dill or the Pie host file?)

 Its just time to let the truth  out and stop confusing people which is what you seem to be doing with your post.

 You say you use the DILL and it works fine for you but we get 12 lines of BS about Pie host file and you never say in any way why it should be considered a alternative , or any of its short comings or how it could be better than the Dill.

[GnarlySnarly]

remind me again quicks why we permitt postings like knarly,s.........as there clearly made by someone pretending they know something about how winmx or the wpn works
***
his statement about how big a deal is the flooding and who says there even is flooding clearly says hes never used pg2........because the floods are there everyday for anyone to see...........like every other pie maggot who hasnt contributed anything useful to winmx since the crash asks how bad is the fakes issue anyways and always quote some stupid search they did that returned only good results...........if you had ever worked on the blocklist you would know how bad the fake file problem is ***

More to the point is why anonymous, pathological liars like you are tolerated.  twit.

I never made any STATEMENT about the level of fake file flooding in my post.  I ASKED if any one had any statistics documenting it.  And oh clueless one, PG2 doesn't give any clue as to the level of fake file flooders on WPN [unless one loads only the WG FFF blocklist.  but even that would not give any indication of the overall effects on ports and traffic FFF have on WPN.  A single user's stats hardly provide any meaningful, extendable, accurate inducation of WPN conditions now does it?   twat

You see, I don't think that the techy tap dance between the flooders and the blockers is the only solution open to us.  When I first conceptualized the FFF as being a type of DoS attack affecting lots of innocent internet users, I suggested there might be legal remedies.  But those require proof.  I begged the techies that know far more than me to provide the tools so the community can start logging and documenting the levels and nature of the flooding.  Remember, if we have logs with THEIR IPs that provide good evidence of what I suspect, then THEY can be sued.  Their records can be subpoenaed.  Their conspiracies can be exposed.  Even if the corrupted court system doesn't provide justice, I am sure that such an action, taking the game to them, would raise public awareness and the bad PR from exposing their criminal acts may, just may, slow down some of the more draconian laws they are trying to get enacted and perhaps even provide a political atmosphere to start rolling back, yes repealing, the mickey mouse (R) laws recently passed at disney's behest.  [sorry to be so USA-centric but that's where I am.  For those of you that live in a free country, appreciate it, while it lasts.]

And just what have you contributed to WPN oh great bughunter?

You don't have a clue as to the totality of my contributions.  Nor do I.  FYI, at least 3 of my original ideas were incorporated into winmx v3.54.  More of my ideas were incorporated in earlier versions of winmx.  Several of my suggestions and observations resulted in improvements of KM's WCS server.  The v3 DLL incorporates the kind of protection I proposed long ago, whether it was my comments long ago that stimulated KM's creative juices, I can't say.  But I will say that I was one of if not the first to see the potential harm massive fake file flooding could cause and theorize the connectivity problems at WPN was experiencing, to characterize it as a type of criminal Denial of Service attack on the WPN infrastructure, and then make it an issue both publicly and privately.  I may not have the technical savvy to implement all the ideas I come up with, but it wouldn't be fair if I did.  People like KM need to make contributions too

[GnarlySnarly]

gnarly...*** your assertion that it trashed your hosts file is a joke.....as the dll doesnt and never has made any alterations to the existing hosts file......again as i stated you show your lack of understanding on how the dll works......***

More silly lies.  Didn't your momma teach you better?

Let's see what god has to say on this:

running the 3.0 uninstaller will remove it as you would expect, and no it doesn't make a backup of the hosts file - why? because it doesn't touch it, the patch modifies that at run time in order to allow parts to function properly, something that has been in it for several versions.[/color]

So, if we are to believe KM, the DLL patches he has been releasing for some time now do in fact modify the hosts file when they run.  So tell me again, oh great bughunter, who lacks understanding of how the DLL works?

*** you forget who controls the wpn.........this is not even open to discussion ***

Ahh! Cats out of the bag eh?  So all that screaming about Vladd & Co trying to take over WPN was just a smokescreen for KM/WG to do it?  Time to tone down the trash talk I think.  twit

gnarly...*** either way you will be dealt with accordingly...

Yeah?  and your momma wears combat boots!   so there!  twat

[GhostShip]

Settle down folks, if we could stick to facts in our posts and make our points in a reasonable way there should be no need for any calling of names.

This is intended to mean all posters including myself, lets remember we all have a stake in the network, if we feel strogly then show that in posts as a reasoned debate.

I apologise to Gnarly for stating he has not tested the patch, perhaps I felt it was not obvious from his posts in this thread, but I was wrong to assume.

I personally dont see any problems with the dll file that are on the scale of the current damge being allowed to be  inflicted by those who either dont use it out of dogma or are ignorant of this improved patch, like should be met with like, that is not happening in this debate and perhaps a reason why folks are unhappy over misleading posts.

 

[..Ñøßߥ..]

*** you forget who controls the wpn.........this is not even open to discussion ***

Ahh! Cats out of the bag eh?  So all that screaming about Vladd & Co trying to take over WPN was just a smokescreen for KM/WG to do it?  Time to tone down the trash talk I think.  twit

lol, he's got you there Icetard....

[GhostShip]

Nobby If you wish to post insults at least add something to the discussion or do you have another agenda ?

Ice has put his case perhaps over strongly but he is thinking of the network in his posts, perhaps you could follow his lead ?

[..Ñøßߥ..]

There have been a whole number of claims made in this thread some are clearly incorrect, the .dll will only block 100% of fakes and flooders if it keep instantaniously up to date and as this is not currently possible, then a small window of opportunity for flooders to do their worst is available, therefore claims of 100% are inaccurate.

Further to this claims suggesting a hosts file is a way inferior manner to connect are also inaccurate, a hosts file offers users a number of its own benifits, however i do agree that what goes with the hosts file is the important issue, a host file method bundled with a fast updating IP blocker running from the WmW blocklist would be very effective, and a good option to the .dll. I would suggest folks review what they are claiming before they post, that why tempers will cool.

I would also add i needed winmx to UL a file to someone last night, so i decided to install KM's .dll and give it a test, unfortunatly it failed at the first hurdle and all i saw was flashing yellow, as i needed Winmx quickely i didnt have time to look into why, but reinstalling a hosts file got me back to a green light inside 5 secs. Its true i did install the .dll quickley on my lappy (i dont really use Winmx on there) and got no joy, i will give it another try on one of my primary systems later, still fact remains it wouldnt connect and the host file would........


PS. Ghost i was writing this post as you posted, as for insulting Icetard, i simply respond to the most negative and abusive person on this forum on his own level, its all he seems to understand, btw it was a valid point Gnarly made, Icetard spent months ranting over a "vladd/pie" take over, now the tables are turned it seems its all ok?

[GhostShip]

Perhaps user error is the issue Nobby, you are obviously more knowledgable about swapping a host file than you may be about closing winmx and running a similar installer.
I think you will find your experience is in a minute minority.

You attempt to try to portray the new patch as being the same as Vladds shamefull actions are dubious, stop playing politics please, you have valid points that I feel are more productive to put forward.

Lets get down to the important matter here, the  nit picking claim of not protecting the network 100% for 24/7 are misleading to users, yes agreed there may be a very small window while the detection teams locate any new nodes but to try to stretch this to mean that for the other 23.30 hrs the network is not clean is being less than reasonable.

Anyone testing the dll can see it works and it works well 99% of the time , I claim 100% success for it as so far I have not seen one single fake , compare this to a host file user who will 100% of the time receive fakes, you see the two extremes I hope.

I look forward to your posts on a way to speed up fake blocking for those who are commited to host files but wish to help the network also.
 

Can you make any statement regarding those who are wilfully flooding the network and refuse to block at all ?

Should we name and shame the primaries who damage the network ?


I have just thrown those two questions in to fuel debate of course but we need to discuss all matters and thats the normal way to air concerns I think.

[..Ñøßߥ..]

My intention wasnt to be-little kms patch, just simply that on first glance i couldnt get a connection, nothing more nothing less, as i said i will spend a little time on one of my primary systems later, im sure/hope it will work just fine. So quit trying to turn this into some kind of vladd thing, i worry you are obsessing over him, perhaps you should go make up, it might get him off your mind. 

In addition, i dont mean to split hairs over its blocking effectiveness being 100%, im sure its at least 98% i was merely pointing out why some folks in this thread were taking exception to the terms being bantered about, tis all, personally 98%+ would be just fine for me and is a virtual 100%.

As for a statement about those "wilfully" flooding the network, ofc i can - Macro vision are scum - hows that? 

As for a statement about those refusing to block (as this is different from those wilfully flooding) - hmmmm its hard to make a statement to them, as im not sure why folks are so agaisnt it, my opinion hasnt changed, lets all block, however i still think the flooders will simple change tactics as i have debated with yourself and km many times, what form that tactic will take is yet to be known, although i do understand their technical options are limited.

Nameing and shaming the primaries who damage the nework? what do you propose??

[KM]

a good start would be putting in the update bar for users of any hosts files you can find, telling them the truth, that they are bad for the network and what could be done to cause less damage, of course there is very limited space so trying to correct all of pie lie in just a little update bar... well, someone else can come up with the wording for that one

[GhostShip]

Propose ?

I am merely musing over issues that have not been raised yet, its been simple for over a year now to list the nodes that are allowing the flooders on the network, some may wish to know of such nodes and block them in their firewalls or add a peer guardian list, all extreme stuff but if someone continues to piss in the communities drinking water a fence is often thought prudent.

Of course this is not something I feel is the solution but I thought its time those allowing the attacks on the network are looked at rather than those trying to defend it.

[Me Here]

Not that I am suggesting such a list of offending primaries.. however if Sabre refuses to allow a message to be placed on the hosts file users update bar ..well I do wish (as I see them quite regularly) that there was some way to contact them and make them aware of what they could be doing to help their winmx neighbors..and I think you can see here in lies my motivations for just recommending that hosts files not be used if they are going to be handed out so irresponsibly

My opinion is that these users are unaware of the damage that is occurring via their connection choice.
And I do blame the Pie sites Webhosts/V44 help rooms for such a limited amount of Pie users being educated to this aspect...

But hey, hind sight is 20/20 .. problem now is that forward thinking is still at a halt as Vladds room are still encouraging users to remove working dll patches because of upload problems and the like, and not even mentioning pg2 or placing 56k users on it without even asking if they can get a primary ..

I think most common sensed users can see the aggravation in this hypocritical approach to a 'choice' being the ultimate goal.. if it is then do it right.. otherwise it just looks like an attempt to not acknowledge the fact that the dll in most cases is all anyone really needs.

So all the banter in the world about the fixes doesnt do anything for the already exising connections via hosts file that are unaware and unprotected..

[..Ñøßߥ..]

I dont disagree with many of your points Mehere, i dont agree with some of the advice given in Pie help rooms, i see no need to remove working .dll over a router or any other issue unless its not working. As for tool bar messages Sabre wont even talk to me let alone entertain requests for action of any sort, i suspect you have more of Sabres ear than i, our last convo several weeks back ended like this:

Sabre: Dont bother messaging again, your now being deleted.

And that was the nicest part of the convo.

As for alternatives to the .dll, i dont banther them about, i am merely saying for a whole array of reasons viable alternatives to the .dll would be a good thing, providing they are viable,right now i personally dont feel Pie is viable,  i cant be any clearer than that, i dont wish to debate that with anyone who feels all the Winmx eggs should be in KM's basket, as that would not be in the best interest of winmx, IMHO

[bughunter]

i find this hard to believe nobby but for once im in agreement with you........i dont share quiet your doom gloom thing with km ......but im all in favour of viable alternatives too.......as long as the user and winmx are protected from riaa,s activities im a happy chappy.........i couldnt care less if there were 10 alternatives as long as they do approx what the dll does then great.......the only way we are going to help winmx grow is to deal with the fakes the flooding.......a clean network is a viable goal that we can all work towards.........
i for one am tired of the bickering and wish we all could just put that behind us..........and move towards cleaning up this network that we obviously all care passionetly about.........we may not always agree on certain points but as long as we all dont loose site of the big picture, winmx can look forward to a bright future..........
winmx first...........
personnall agendas last................

[..Ñøßߥ..]

i find this hard to believe nobby but for once im in agreement with you........i dont share quiet your doom gloom thing with km ......but im all in favour of viable alternatives too.......as long as the user and winmx are protected from riaa,s activities im a happy chappy.........i couldnt care less if there were 10 alternatives as long as they do approx what the dll does then great.......the only way we are going to help winmx grow is to deal with the fakes the flooding.......a clean network is a viable goal that we can all work towards.........
i for one am tired of the bickering and wish we all could just put that behind us..........and move towards cleaning up this network that we obviously all care passionetly about.........we may not always agree on certain points but as long as we all dont loose site of the big picture, winmx can look forward to a bright future..........
winmx first...........
personnall agendas last................

LMAO ok who cloned Bug?

If that is the real Bug, thats the most sensible post i have ever seen you write.......

[WOMBAT]

You Never Lose Matter It Just Changes Its State

However Both Sides of The Equation Must Balance

In Order For The Statement To be True

bughunter 1 + nobby 1 = WPN 2

[..Ñøßߥ..]

lol

[GnarlySnarly]

i find this hard to believe nobby but for once im in agreement with you........i dont share quiet your doom gloom thing with km ......but im all in favour of viable alternatives too.......as long as the user and winmx are protected from riaa,s activities im a happy chappy.........i couldnt care less if there were 10 alternatives as long as they do approx what the dll does then great.......the only way we are going to help winmx grow is to deal with the fakes the flooding.......a clean network is a viable goal that we can all work towards.........
i for one am tired of the bickering and wish we all could just put that behind us..........and move towards cleaning up this network that we obviously all care passionetly about.........we may not always agree on certain points but as long as we all dont loose site of the big picture, winmx can look forward to a bright future..........
winmx first...........
personnall agendas last................

LMAO ok who cloned Bug?

If that is the real Bug, thats the most sensible post i have ever seen you write.......

It obviously an impostor.  Notice this post has 2 'newlines'.  The real bughunter doesn't use the <enter> key

[chuck]

 The real  bughunter would have said  maggot at lest once.

[Me Here]

Damn its good to see you boys actin amost civil at each other!!..