Spliting The WinMX Network

[Me Here]

Well as I said, I just want folks to read whats posted.. he (KM) may well not want to split it regardless of whats posted here.. but from reading his post and others I'm sure hes not asking anyone to uninstall WinMX.. and just wanted to clarify that and point out that with passionate subjects and even contraversal ones.. facts and feelings can get jumbled up..

I'd just like everyone to be careful not to let that happen here. 

TY Max.

[Scyre]

Scyre quickly unpacks the nice chocolate basket he was about to send to KM

[KM]

The discussion started elsewhere, in other threads and also in the chat room, and I stated that it is not going to happen.

Then mac started this poll anyway, the only reason i can see for it is to try and force me to do something I already stated I am not going to do.

Your claims are about as ridiculous as the claims that blocking is illegal, and the huge majority who were there stating there should be no forced blocking in the patch... and I make that comparison because everyone is aware just how wrong the people making such claims were.

This same thing is happening now, there is a majority trying to push for something that would harm winmx, not bothering to listen to the fact that they are talking rubbish (i posted stating how stupid the "to block pie" excuse was... and still got a reply stating they needed blocking...)

No, it is not a democracy, if it was then there would have been no blocking, there would have been no fake filtering, and there would be no winmx. so if you want to complain about that fact then send your complaints to /dev/null

You also seem to be confusing winmxworld and winmxgroup, winmxworld is this site and the chat room, it is a place providing help for users. winmxgroup actually runs the network. the 2 compliment each other, they are however by no means the same thing. winmxworld is run by various people, and what people want is generally listened to and happens, however winmxgroup is run by me, i do listen to what people want then I decide what actually happens - because doing everything any user wanted would quickly destroy winmx... not to mention the fact that I am the one they want to do it all, and I am not going to do things I don't want to simply because everyone else wants it.

The simple fact is, I am not your slave to do as you tell me to, I do exactly what I want to do, you either agree with it or don't. If you want me to spend time doing something as pointless and harmful as splitting the network with no gain then you are free to want it, however if i've said i'm not doing it then you really have 3 options:
1. find someone else who does want to do it and get them to do it
2. say "OK then", and go back to whatever else you were doing
3. keep going on about it and pestering me until i get completely fed up and just decide screw it and walk away
in all honesty i would love number 1 to happen, but there doesn't seem anyone else able to do what I do... which leaves 2 or 3...

[Max™]

Thanks KM,
Sorry to annoy you,
*takes option 2 & shuts up & goes back to what i was doing*

[chuck]

Sorry KM44 we will just do as you say.

[]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.]

LMAO you hit the nail square on the head there chuck lets see who pops up to tell us we have interpreted this any diffrent than put up shut up or i will pack it up

sorry me here and anyone else that wants to justify the statement above from km but that's what it means, kinda brings to mind a saying here  "over a barrel"   meaning to have that person/people  at your mercy.

[Josh]

Its nice of you to put a figure to a flooded search KM as you make the case for all users who are being drained of their paid for bandwidth by this activity.
Lets multiply KM,s figure by the average daily amount of searches and how many nodes are involved and you can see what the true cost is of allowing the network to suffer these attacks.

I see a different agenda here from most reading KM,s post above, to most of you its a definite no to splitting , to me its a "wait some time" post while he investigates a way to  fix the throttling issue, KM is more than aware this is the next threat to be dealt with and as we all know bug free development takes time.

The comment regarding users removing winmx is to be honest rude and wrong KM, your perfectly aware of what is being openly said and yet you have chosen to read an alternative twist into it that has no bearing on the thread or the vote, users will be able to connect to the network even if its not using the dll, so the reality is whatever method is used, we will not lose any by offering enhancements to the client/network based on the already working system that the users are familiar with.

Thank you Josh for being the only user to post anything lame in this thread  :roll:

Your welcome. I'M glad i can spread my little wisdom to this thread. 

[GhostShip]

I,m not laughing Josh, this was an important topic and having you acting to derail it shows your not grown up enough to be trusted with anything for another year or two.

Before we get into the realms of stupidity can I draw all posters attention to the topic above, Mac started this thread and regardless of what KM has decided I still want to know what you folks want, nothing in this thread has changed for me, I,m not pleased with the way KM has spoken but neither am I going to abuse him when he is someone who has done his upmost to keep winmx rolling and listened to more than his fair share of half baked schemes cooked up by yours truly.

Maybe the time is not right or maybe there is some plan afoot that will mean we need not do anything, not knowing or pretending to know whats going on in KM,s research lab  I,m prepared to listen to what he has said and gather more technical information to support my own view, so lets get back to the topic in hand, if you can gather more votes and posts with new angles on splitting or not splitting lets hear them, this is not something I am going to turn a deaf ear to and I,m sure neither is KM.

Chuck, Hell , whilst I share the disappointment of having KM put his view most bluntly its not going to blind me to the nearly two years he has supported me and this site and helped hundreds of thousands reclaim their right to use winmx unhindered by commercial attacks, I am prepared to give time and more detailed research to KM to show the non emotive reasoning behind the wish, now is not the time to take flight guys, we stand stronger if we act professionaly and with the best interests of the users in our hearts.

[]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.]

i don't think anyone disputes the superb work that KM does and the efforts he puts into the work, its the things go my way or no way attitude that people don't much care for........ this thread was to debate  and vote if the network should be split something that KM has rubbished and said is not going to happen unless throttling gets out of hand and also said it is not a democracy in which case there is no point what so ever debating anything at all unless KM sanctions it first is there ?
I'm sorry but that definitely is not in the spirit of this forum or what i thought this forum was all about.... but i guess it will be pointed out how wrong i am by people that seem to see no wrong in anything that certain people on this forum post

i have no wish for people to fall out ...pack up... or get upset about posts but i do wish for people to be able to post without being ridiculed and the subject being cast aside because one person doesn't agree with it no matter who that person maybe

[chuck]

There are a few things km has said that dont sit well with me and others they sound so much like the words of another great winmx helper and god. One is the fact km has said he would not ask for money to run mx he has said that many times in the past in the other thread he starts hinting he needs money to keep the servers up and running. I agree he should have some help but his way of saying it is well not the best.makes me look for google ad's to come to his site .

(anyway... as for the funding thing, yes, for the long term something needs to be sorted out funding wise, rather than simply me paying for everything out of my pocket... simply because i'm having a little cash flow difficulty, but solutions there are for a different thread..)

 Then theres his (and i always get my own way, remember?)

(The simple fact is, I am not your slave to do as you tell me to, I do exactly what I want to do, you either agree with it or don't. If you want me to spend time doing something as pointless and harmful as splitting the network with no gain then you are free to want it, however if i've said i'm not doing it then you really have 3 options:
1. find someone else who does want to do it and get them to do it
2. say "OK then", and go back to whatever else you were doing
3. keep going on about it and pestering me until i get completely fed up and just decide screw it and walk away
in all honesty i would love number 1 to happen, but there doesn't seem anyone else able to do what I do... which leaves 2 or 3.)

Sounds alot like :

(19:13:57 <Raps> u want to help users in here
19:14:03 <Raps> u do it step by step
19:14:15 <Raps> first they must use vs patch
<Raps> vladd wants his room to be run how it should be run )

yes we all thank km for what he has done but if we had not chose to use his DLL over the host file he really would have done nothing.

As HELL put it  (i have no wish for people to fall out ...pack up... or get upset about posts but i do wish for people to be able to post without being ridiculed and the subject being cast aside because one person doesn't agree with it no matter who that person maybe)

[Max™]

well, i look at it from my eyes,
the rooms are dead, so many show 100's but when you enter there's 2 names & 1 of them is a metis.

if i didn't have games in my room, i know at least 5 of my reg's would just find a room with games in.

the way i see it is:
1, sit back and shut up, & watch winmx decline
2, watch vladd & pie take over and destroy winmx
3, join vladd & use pie and be a destroyer of winmx
4, leave & go to ares or filetopia or whatever

but this is my thoughts, im so pissed off i closed me room now due to lack of interest, and my 3 regs that will try to pop in to play hangman in the morning will find no room, the 2 in the day doing same because they like the games and the 2 or 3 in the evening the same.

[Max™]

oops i forgot to add, 3/4 of my forum is dedicated to winmx and mxc, so when i leave winmx im destroying my forum too, because why support a dying network.

[Scyre]

KM, many people appreciate what you have done, and think the world of you spending so much time doing it. (Though you didn't know it, I have a shrine in my home built in your honor...Ok, maybe not, but sounded nice anyway )

At the same time, don't forget to appreciate what all of those users have done. Standing behind you, and having faith and trust in you. Although it may not be the same as being submerged in source code, and managing servers and web sites, it is still not easy for people to do.

I used to host your CH room, and, not counting your self portrait (that seems to have developed more hair), I have never even seen a picture of you. Nor have thousands of others who have put their faith into typed words on a computer screen.

Rather than talk about walking away, realize that you have one hell of a following. Although it may be stressful, and people are gonna have opinions, you have obviously proven to be smarter than to let that get to you.

Be thankful. I would LOVE the opportunity to not only have people from every country in the world believing in me, but to also have the chance to learn all that you have learned in the 'journey to save WinMX'. You have had unique experience in all of this, and are making history with every step you take.

And I know, that means that each step should be well thought out, instead of jumping into the hasty popular vote. No one blames you for being a careful planner, and thank god you are! I think the majority of the users you have helped would agree that this is one of the best qualities that you could possess, not to mention one of the most necessary for your unique position.

Truth be told, you could have declined even responding to any of this thread, and there is nothing anyone could have done about it. But if you are gonna respond to the different views of all the users, I urge you to maintain your composure, and don't let anyone's frustrations bother you. After all, many users do not understand the full scope of it all, and if they could see the big picture, would probably agree with you 100%.

So, I am asking you please don't be quick with a sharp tongue. I hate to see anyone take it harsh and decide to leave our community. As you said, they all matter.

You know as well as I do that there are hundreds of people right now working hard to get their rooms set just right, or trying to fix a script in their bot, or trying to come up with a good color pattern for tags, or making new ascii art pictures... They are putting in some work because they love our community. Although it isn't the same as what you are doing, their effort is important to them, and they feel they are building their part of WinMX.
And sometimes people are not quick to appreciate everything that makes up our community. But that doesn't make them jerks... just a little short sighted. 
I know there countless things going on with what you have done and continue to do for the community, and many of those things no one is even aware of. And all this on top of everything else you have in your personal life! But please don't think all of that effort is not appreciated. Trust me, it is. And more than that appreciation, you are respected for it.

So far, I have to hand it to you. You have gone through all of this with a strong attitude and not giving in to the pressures of everyone wanting everything from you. I just hate to see a few strong opinions get to you or annoy you.

This is merely a thread on the opinions of the users, and if nothing ever changes, it is still an educational thread for all of us to see how the rest of the community feels.

nuff said

Best Regards and Be Good,
Scyre

[TheMacDaddy]

I couldnt of put it any better myself Scyre

Where i might not agree with KM and his views but i will not slam him in public either (and if it has come across that way then i am sorry)

Like i said b4 this thread was never started to demand a split i just wanted to see what the users opinions were......

I know KM,s views on spliting the network and i fully back him 100% (even though i may not agree with it and i will say so) i have trusted KM since day 1 of me joinig here and i will countiune to do so.

KM if you feel my posts were a personal attack on you then i can promise you that there not and i can only but say sorry if thats how you felt..

With all this said i would still like to get back to he topic of this thread which was to see if users felt the network should be split

NOT A ALL OUT ATTACK ON ANYONE OR ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!

[Lagerlout666]

Well that got blew out of the water big time, boy i been away a week and boom. KM is sort of right in what he is saying about splitting the network isnt right to loose them users, But ghost's arguments about how much Bw flooders use isnt just the other reason why it was suggested. It was the upgrades that coud be made to winmx that could not be released due to interoprability as was said in mine and ghosts very first posts before it went of at a tangant making demands. Now the main for this will be for the upgrading of Winmx to include as mentioned the atempt by isp's to block the use of winmx. This is swilty becoming more of problem than the flooders themselves as whats the point when we cant download in the first place. Also this cross Mx crap. I think that this is something that we are brushing under the table like it wont happen but it damn sure looks like it is to me. I just cant see how another unprotected soloution saying it wont block by default isnt making more of you a little nervous. And if its conection is anything like Fx serve and hammers the caches from advise took from them morons that lurk could we all handle this bag of crap as i for one had never heard of this developer before the mention of cross mx. Is this person even competant enough to be releaing this. but anyway gone abit off the split. i also mentioned advertising, ive set up a site, im just runing this threw the powers that be, seems ok for now but i need more idea's on advertsing, I was hoping that this could be a PR idea but thats shelved. I could do with a small team maybe ofering up to do this, i supose the PM system should be adequate for you regitering a interest and i can pass on my msn to you.

So sorry KM if you felt like you was getting your nose put out. As Scrye said alot of us are really pasionante about MX. I know i am, and sometimes us hearing what we dont like gets things rolling, I know people saying that Winmx is dying has really got me wanting to get going on proving these people wrong,

[Max™]

Hi Tiny,
welcome back to the chaos,
i must point out the splitting networks will loose users, well ages ago we was guessing that only 5% of all users are using pie (but my memory isnt that good) thing is we loose 5% if we do split, but if we don't we are loosing 5% per day, i know by looking at the rooms, there is only 1/4 of the amount of sex rooms there used to be last year, alot of rooms are closing, mine included, the only thing left is alot of movie rooms (no offence to the well established movie rooms that a few of us have) its the new rooms showing 100's of users in list & only 2 or 3 when you enter, or if your lucky you see 30 or 40 fake (room filler) names with fake files, the host gets movies off bit torrents because its faster, then open a movie room.
there are no good rooms left, we are all leaving, so non-split means winmx is dying, sorry but that's what it looks like.
i got a new room on another network, bye.

[GhostShip]

The fact that you have left the network for another sort of shows your view on things, its a self fulfilling prophecy.
You say folks are leaving so you leave, you will return here no doubt to say "look I left so I must have been right that folks are leaving".

The statistics are still rather plainly showing that folks are not leaving, we get many users arrive here from limewire etc and they are more than making up the numbers for those who want to try something new and try other networks, many use a few at a time.

This thread is not about who is fed up with the network, its about who feels there is a benefit in splitting the userbase or not, KM has made his views plain as have the rest of you, thats what this is about, I certainly dont wish to ignore the users who visit the site here, they are the reason we built the site, Me_her, KM, and myself have spent two years doing what we can to keep the network free, fun, and running, do we get fed up sometimes ? Sure we do but we know others rely on us to keep the mx flag flying, and regadrless of any minor hiccups that occur, we have as a group always done the best we can for as many users as we can, this topic is to further that aim of making sure we are listening to what you want because if we dont then we would be wasting our own and your time.

I will no doubt see you back again Max and maybe a holiday on another sytem will show you just how good this one is, many think the grass is greener elsewhere but folks have been on this network now for a lot of  years and the reality is this is one of the more empowering clients, you actually get to make choices with how you set your winmx up and what you can do with it, something sadly a lot of other networks fall down on.


This network is to me more than a filesharing app, its a vibrant community where folks come and go and often return to stay in contact with those they will never in real life meet, many have found new friends, others romance and for many a chance to feel good about themselves and their acheivments that the offline world has brushed over, by being here, each of you here has made a difference to someone, this then is the winmx community, strong, often emotive but filled with many who share a dream.
   

[]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.]

quote from ghostship 
      "The statistics are still rather plainly showing that folks are not leaving"

sorry ghost whatever the statistics are on your side of the fence this is most defiantly not the case from room hosts side...... you only have to ask around to find this out ... i know of at least four long term hosts that have packed up this week alone, not because they are bad hosts but because of the decline in numbers especially of late ..... there may be more rooms open but that is because it is so easy to open a room these days and fill them with names... the fact is the comunity you refer to is in steep decline and needs a big change and soon if there is to be anything left to even warrent people opening rooms in the future....... take max room for example .....great room ,well set up,a host that's dedicated to something he loves ,games,friendly people, help for anyone with PC problems in general not just winmx...... no reason what so ever to be in decline if the people are on winmx....so please explain to me why is it the numbers have dropped off to nothing hardly when if statistics show more users on winmx ?

this is not just the case for max it is pretty much right across the board for hosts on winmx of late ( i know a few will say my room is doing great but i would love to see this backed up with logs because in my room the logs are half the size they was a year back alone and a tenth of what they was 2 years ago & we have a large reg base)
 you can quote all the statistics you like but the hosts can see the reality of it there ARE less users on the chat side & no amount of statistics can alter that fact ....... i can quote a hundred times over just from recent logs the users that have come into my room and say " omg people talking"  & " i have been in 10 - 20 rooms and there is no one about at all these days" also " i don't use winmx for d/loads because it is crap these days"  or the favorite " i remember when ................. "  ( kinda reminds me of  "during the war" lol )
sorry ghost but you are wrong from our side of the fence.....the hosts are not lying neither are the users & chucking round some statistics doesn't change fact for these people
max is not leaving to prove a point, he is leaving because something he has put his heart & soul into is in such decline, he feels he has no purpose anymore in continuing with something that so many people believe is dying & you may say that this is a negative attitude but it is no less negative than someone pulling out of something else because it no longer works no more especially when max , myself & hundreds if not thousands of others have hung in there so long hoping and putting all our efforts in trying to make a difference to no avail

this post is not here to provoke reaction or argument,belittle or upset anyone what so ever ...it is here because it is what i see and how i feel and what i hear from many people including the hosts and users on the chat side of winmx..... as for max leaving its a crying shame because he is without doubt one of the good guys on mx and a great host & as we would say over here in the UK    " A TRUE GENT " & its a sad day when people such as max decide enough is enough

[Scyre]

Let's face it. Rumor is Rumor.

There have been times I have heard the same thing amongst the community (that everyone is leaving and numbers are declining) and at the same time, us being in a peak with the number of users. This rumor is NOT new, so don't buy into it. There are a LARGE number of users in the community, and it is not dying just because a few rooms go, or a few people leave. There are plenty of users, and we are gaining more each day. Many of the rooms I have visited are growing in size over the last month and a half.

Honestly, there are always gonna be people saying the sky is falling, and we are all doomed, but the truth is that we are nowhere near the end of WinmX, or even how low the user base was when we resurrected it over a year and a half ago.

GS is right, WinMX is a winning formula, and although people will come and go, there is nothing in the p2p quite like it. Eventually people will return to get what they cannot find elsewhere. But I for one am not afraid for them to go look. I often use other programs, but WinMX is my home, and there is nothing to compare between simply using a program, and having the winmx community. WinMX wins out every time.

Although I would welcome a split, we were still here when we had NO flood protection, so now that we have filtering and such, I don't think we are gonna go anywhere soon...

Now, back to the topic... Pros and cons of splitting:

Pros:
-----------------
no cartel
no flooding
no fake results
a single patch that can be updated easily
no worries compatabilities
pie crew will be annoying somewhere else
open path to new development and ideas
public moral increases

cons:
------------
we loose a few users
several people will come here and post nasty messages
cartel may develop new tricks (hopefully they will just give up! )
I am sure there are more things...just can't think of em

Best Regards, and Be Good!
Scyre

[]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.]

just as most posts on this site l8ley waste of time replying if ppl cant see whats in front of them

as for..... "  There have been times I have heard the same thing amongst the community (that everyone is leaving and numbers are declining) and at the same time, us being in a peak with the number of users. This rumor is NOT new, so don't buy into it "
true but I'm not about starting rumors ill leave that for the dramatists out there i been stating facts from users and hosts alike
as for .......
"Honestly, there are always gonna be people saying the sky is falling, and we are all doomed, but the truth is that we are nowhere near the end of WinmX, or even how low the user base was when we resurrected it over a year and a half ago "

strange that as we are probably one of the top 25% of busiest rooms yet we have seen it unfolding in front of us as well of a hell of a lot of other hosts

as for ..........." Many of the rooms I have visited are growing in size over the last month and a half "

i been in 50 random rooms today and only 5 say they have got busier of these 5 .....3 were relatively new  so inevitable they was  only 2 was long term hosted rooms and they said it was marginal that numbers have gone up & probably down to the fact that friends had recently closed room so they gained from this

so Scyre please feel free to start a thread and post these rooms that are thriving because me my regs and fellow hosts are at a loss to find them

as for the original topic i totally agree with you but as we established way back this topic is a waste of type because we have been told no way no how like it or lump it
yes splitting the network will lose some users but i bet they will be reconnected within hours of realising what has happened  & the long term gain will more than make up for any losses .....as you posted

no cartel
no flooding
no fake results
a single patch that can be updated easily
no worries compatabilities
pie crew will be annoying somewhere else
open path to new development and ideas
public moral increases

can only be of benefit in the long term as someone put before "amputate a limb to save a life"