clafirication on official winmxworld policy

[Bearded Blunder]

repeating how safe you're convinced it is over & over hasn't done a great deal for my respect for you either

[GhostShip]

I,m not just repeating though am I, I,m sharing real world information with those that wish it and your talking about hypothetical situtations, there is a difference.

[Bearded Blunder]

frontcode & winmxgroup puling out were hypothetical situations not long ago...

being prepared for hypothetical situations (looking at past events) seems to me to be the name of the game..

that said i thought my outline of advantages & disadvantages of 3 different ways forward with new patch was a fair outline, not many posts ago at all

[GhostShip]

Indeed it was Bearded but it seems anyone not following your line of though is branded a fool or worse, you have so far implied the entire admin team of this site are my "cronies" and reckless when it comes to making important decisions, can I suggest you stick with posts like the one you referenced and allow others to ask theirs, anything else constitutes spamming in my book, I repeat your views have been taken on board, although for the life of me I,m beginning to wonder why.

[Bearded Blunder]

Spam? 

I havn't called for blocking all over the boards, merely for caution in those threads the debate is taking place in....

What's next?

Moving me to the cesspool?

[GhostShip]

Your "caution" has helped expand this thread to a 10 page waste of time, I,m speaking to you specifically as most of the other posters have acted in an adult fashion by posting their views and been content to see others views , no one has put you in charge of the winmx defence league, and your snide remarks are proving tiresome, I really did expect better of you, when you have finished rubbishing this site and its operators please look around, see anyone giving a damn about your views ?

Try not to shoot yourself in the foot any longer, I,ll not force you to apologise to the other admins here but be sure you should do if you had any honour.

Btw I,m not seeing much support for this scheme so which ones are my "cronies", I,ll drop them a line 

[icedragon]

you might as well give up merlin this stupidity is going to go forward regardless of the arguments that are put forward demonstrating how stupid it is............
there is no difference between mxlie/pie or what ever they call themselves these days and winmxworld..........secret committees self appopinting them selves to decide the future of winmx..........the simple fact they have no mandate to do this doesnt seem to matter..............nobass can try all he likes to paint himself and his band of cronies as users who are interested in winmx future..........just a pitty everyone else knows full well what pie have done to this network...........
nobass tries to ignore the facts that the cartell only exist on this network due to them and there failed patch.......anyone who has followed the sad sorry saga of pie know the truth.........end of story........and theres no escapeing it...........
quicks now seems to be under the same dissillusional thinking that has gripped pie........he cannot guarantee that any patch / connection solution they come up with wont be full of bugs exploits or other means that the cartel can then use to futher disrupt this network or even worse possibly shut it down permanantly.............and he seemingly doesnt  care..........
like pie he cant see that he is wrong or even accept that what he is doing isnt in winmxs best interests..............
sucking up to the very worst of the pie lie brigade like he is, is very disturbing, the damage the vladd lie mob have caused and that he has himself posted on many times on this forum seems to be all forgotten, swept under the carpet like it doesnt matter any more............smacks of hidden agenders, but then what can you expect from secret committees whose motives can now only be seen as suspect..........quicks himself posted many times on the vladd secret committees but has now fallen into the same mind set..........
these are the facts.........
winmx isnt yours quicks, and you have no business risking it, on the basis of devolping a new patch........
you your self have stated many times that winmxworld is the voice of the community, but you are now ignoreing that or was that just talk,you critised vladd for his secret committees but now are doing the same thing.........
you and your self appointed cronies are attempting to decide winmxs future even thou you have no mandate from the community that you claim to represent.........thou of course secret committees dont need a mandate do they.........
risking winmx solely on the premis that a handfull of pie maggots might start to use a real blocking connection solution is insane........you have no gurantees that maggot boy vladd and his sorry band of rejects will even use this connection solution, after all nobass is claiming his patch is as good as winmxworlds so why would they were is there incentive to change.........but we all know nobass is full of shit, hes so lame he has to post under false identities, to ashamed to use his real nic....nobass was banned for a reason, and his continuing stupidity only reinforces that ban..........nobass you can pretend all you like, reality is forum users are well aware of your stupidity,,,, your the village idiot for a reason........  
and this still leaves you with the biggest block of pie users gem /sabre still provideing access to the cartel, and refuseing to have any part of this.............so please explain how winmx benefits from this?................please explain how going open source and giveing the cartel even more info and insite then they have already, combined with the gem sabre pie lot still directly supporting the cartel benefits winmx and the community..............it doesnt and you know it...............
but of course now you cant back down admitt that you were wrong and that this is a bad idea..........no were to save face is there..........so you have to proceed regardless of whats said or done............
just hope you can live with the demise of winmx on your hands.........
but thats easy isnt it, hit the off button and all your problems dissappear.............

[]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.]

A word to the wise Hell, this thread is not for you to drag off topic with a rant against the admins, your last post does not even pretend to be anything to do with this topic, if you dont like the site or the admins then please stay away.

If you have something sensible to say then sticking to the topic is likely to keep everyone here happy, lets hope you dont want to argue about that with me also, site policy is as follows , "those attacking either the site or the site support staff in personal attacks are liable to be banned"

I,m "just about" ok with what you have said so far but please remember to take the correct moral stance in dealing with others, whatever the provocation.

would seem bearded this is the stance adopted by ghostship whenever he cant get his own way these days he will be quoting site policy to you next but then again i spose that is how this pointless thread started ( pointless because only one thing is going to happen no matter the fears of 90% of the users no matter the technicalities common sence still wont prevail in his eyes where a large slice of pie seems to be lodged these days)

as for draging it out wtf i can see only one mule headed fool keeping this going and making everything personal when not agreed with & twisting posts to suit his own ajenda (which is becoming clearer with every post) sod everyone and winmx i will do as i like and to damn with the concequences because i the great almighty ghostship cannot be wrong in any way what so ever no matter how many times i am told by a wide array of diffrent ppl ( with varying technical atributes although not up to my own standard which also includes seeing into the future to predict without a doubt all will be fine)they are all wrong
 
after his ridiculous post quoted above (which incedently was on topic by myself pointing out admins not even understanding what open source meant & the repurcussions for winmx if they was to be in on the vote about the biggest gamble ever with winmx) ( that was b4 i was told the gamble was to be made by a even smaller select few of yes sir 3 bags full sir ppl called the core group)

i wasnt even going to reply as i thought he had just sunk to a new low to justyfy himself & what was the point

but just as most dictators do they start to make even more ridiculous claims one after another to try keep treading water i felt just one last post b4 i am banned would be in order ( even though i see no other threats to ban here for posts put just as strongly if not more so.....well so far but i guess you are building up to that with bearded the way your posting is going now) kind of ironic that the biggest abuser of this forum is now unbanned to spread his own brand of poison here yet again though ehh ? ( a case of gathering your allies around you i think there ghostship... what next a representative of the cartel joining the core group ?)
This banning and unbanning process seems to be getting kinda selective to suit certain ppl on here these days (or there ajendas)wouldnt you agree?

Btw I,m not seeing much support for this scheme so which ones are my "cronies", I,ll drop them a line

they would be the ones who are not posting because you are doing a mighty fine job of ridiculing them all on your own without their input to support or not support you (kinda damed if they do damed if they dont after your rantings ghostship) (if they support you they look stupid if they dont they get bumped way down the food chain)
you go on about getting  personal  jesssuuussss   how many ppl have quit positions/left the forum/left winmx altogether because you want to argue/belittle/ridicule with everyone not shareing your own opinion ?  you can understand it of us mere minions but someone in your position as supervisor phttttttt  (you and george bush could double team on the comedy circuit.... edinbrough festival on atm btw open for auditions) could call it who can drop the biggest bollock & still be right

i have no doubt i will be banned after this post or at the very least ridiculed or talked down to in a condacending way as you tend to from that ivory tower of yours to anyone that dares to dissagree with the all knowing you but at least i have the clear conscience that the few years spent here was to help the ppl of winmx (the comunity you know ghost the ones that really matter) and to stand my ground on matters that i thought was in the best interest of winmx & not to conspire to the demise of it or perhaps even the end altogether (something you cannot possibly say will not happen when you hand the key to the door out) but one thing is for sure i just hope km has a new set cut for when that day arrives then he can truly be the savior of winmx no questions asked ( even if i didnt always agree with him) at least he wasnt willing to gamble on killing it stone dead (because if he was it wouldnt be here now we all know that much) you can slate him all you like but im pretty sure hes way ahead of you ghost in what action to take when it all goes belly up
just in case i dont get the chance to banter with a few ppl here again i would just like to say t.c and all the best for the future (if there is to be one for winmx that is) & dont gable on the 3 legged one it will never win trust me 

[chuck]

 Ill be the first to say i has against vladd or pie haveing control of winmx.I was never much on km haveing control of winmx. If people dont want winmx to be ran by all the users then why not just make your own patch run your on servers block those that dont use your patch and just move on. Im all for it if that is what you want.
 But for winmx to grow and i mean really grow its going to take both pie and pie lite and users of the winmx world patch to once and for all work together on a patch that can be used by all and the server sofware to be given out for as many as can to run.That way there will allways be some one to carry on.
 Im not saying i disagree with bug or hell or Bearded in what they say but i do dis agree with them trying to block others that wish to unite winmx and move on to a better network patch.
 As it allways has been winmx after the close is open for anyone to do as they please.make your own patch run your own servers and block who you wish.If you know how to do it .winmx has been tried to be closed by the AA's,Vladd and who knows maybe km as well. but its not been closed down becouse people have worked together in one way or the other to keep it up.No matter if you l;ike it or not in a way pie and the winmx world patch users still share the same WPN and winmx is still going on.Some of you act like winmx could not start all over if things go to shit,as if it hasnt gone to shit many times in the past few years with people working against each other so why not just see if working together might work better?If open source makes all use a patch that blocks and no one team is in control id say that would be the way to go.Weve tried fighting each other for years now and we are not makeing any head way at all.i can point to many threads on this forum that states the chat rooms are dieing, the network is dieing, maybe it is maybe it isnt but one thaing for sure is it isnt growning.
 The one thing weve not tried is working together really working together WTF why not try it once and then im sure some one can and will say i told you so. Id like to know once and for all who will say it first.LOL if you dont try then in a way pie and winmx world patch users will have worked together to kill winmx.Eather way work together to save or work together to kill mx you will work together in the end.

[KM - Apparently Banned!!!]

If i wished to shut down the network it would be gone by now, I don't suggest you ask for proof - lol

I am well aware of the details of the network and client and that means I know of several major flaws that could be used to do anything from simply stop fake filtering working all the way down to completely shutting down the network, which also means I know just how easy it is for someone else to figure out exactly what I figured out so easily...

In response to the claims i would save winmx apon someone using those flaws to shut it down... assuming it was even possible to do i have already said i wouldn't - for the record it is not possible to save it from several of the attack methods, you'd need a completely different network to withstand the problem which would mean a new p2p network not the old WPN, ie. it wouldn't be winmx in any form unless frontcode had done it, and they clearly aren't going to!

[icedragon]

on the contray chuck..........
i have no problem with anyone working with anyone else to improve winmx or in this case a new connection blocking solution.........
what i do object too is that winmx is put into danger by this action........
if pie were really interested in working together and not what helps there secret agenders, it wouldnt matter if it was closed source now would it. thats if there really interested in a joint venture, as they can share code write what ever they like, but winmx isnt made vunerable by this as the source code is held by a select few.were as open source exposes winmx to the cartel gaining access to information that could hurt winmx, as km has confimed already there are exploits avalable,would you really want that information to be in the hands of a cartel with unlimited resources ?.........
this is about keeping winmx as safe as we can,
its a simple choice really isnt it

[ñòóKýçrÕôK]

My god if you take vladd44 and kmout of all the patches you know what you have left? The users. Im sure winmx will go on with or with out vladd or km, isnt it about time we all worked together.Some say vladd tried to kill mx at the end,he couldn't same is said about km he couldn't. So lets just drop all the us them BS and make mx better. Open ,closed, all i know is if a person wants the sorce bad enough they will find it out if they work hard enough.But all i see in this thread is still the same old hate pie users. ghost i dont see how youve not given up with all this argueing over the same old bs.It would be best if everyone worked on one patch and have another to fall back on.All thoe i dont see where there would be a need if the wpn is hacked by the cartels it would not matter what patch you use. Its a good thing most users dont read threads like this becouse they would have gave up on mx a long time ago.My god 9 pages of this.LOL funny thing is even with all this bs winmx still goes on.Just goes to show winmx is stronger than pie or wmxw.Not one idea has came from all this what a shame.

You couldn't be any further from the truth about this thread either. The arguement here for the most part is not group against group. The arguement here is open src vs closed src. Good or bad. Personally as long as all sides show willingness and sincere worry for the safety of the network then I couldn't give a damn if Atila the Hun were on it. I personally liked the idea of open if asked for but otherwise not just "published" or tossed out there. I think if any group wants to claim they're thinking in WinMX's best interest they're going to want this patch to be closed source. And yes ANY individual could take the time and find the source if they know what they're doing. But I think it's safe to say that likely 89.9% of the "think they know how" group couldn't find it if it was gift wrapped with their name on it. I see no benefit in just handing it out on a platter and saying "well, here's all the network switches,.... feel free to horse around if you wish!" Tell me chuck, which do you care more about? Connecting or knowing the source of what makes WinMX tick?

[ñòóKýçrÕôK]

And while I'm atit let me just say. Know it or not, you take network like WinMX. One I'm pretty sure is HATED among the RIAA/MPAA circle. Give them a diagram of it's inner workings. They have more money than you. They WILL use it to break it. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm just an ordinary, every day "Joe Smoe". I don't have a lot of tech sence on WinMX. I'm first to admit it. I'm a common sence kinda guy and the smartest thing I've ever heard said was "If you think for 1 second it might be bad.... It likely is. If you think at any time at all Maybe I shouldn't do this then you better not do it, And if you have a shadow of a doubt as to whether something's right or wrong. You can bet you're sweet country ass it's most likely wrong as hell". But what I do know is they have bigger guns and aren't afrad to shoot. That's always a bad situation. Yes there's a fear factor. Anyone who thinks there's no need for fear must be stoned out their mind. I know the open src is supposed to still be up in the air but I think it needs to be brought back down to earth.

[silicon_toad2000]

I wanted to reiterate a question I asked earlier.

Why do we believe that the cartel/riaa/mpaa have not cracked open the source code to winmx and KM's patch and don't already know the workings of winmx better than we do?

[GhostShip]

I'm sure one of the other posters will answer your question there Toad, I for one am sure they have deep enough pockets to know such things.

Hell, I think its clear you too have concerns but never get the idea that's a licence to be rude and then claim censorship, your abusing the entire forum by doing so, just make your point and let others explore differing aspects than the one you proffer, I have given considerable leeway with many of your obnoxious comments to ensure you are heard but as I posted, either show some respect for the forum or don't post here, I'm not wanting to ban anyone nor have I despite claims by folks who know better of all sorts of wrongdoing, no proof is ever given to back those claims, so please as I asked you nicely stop fabricating rumours and stick to the facts, any more personally aimed attacks will see your access cut as I'm not going to allow you to use this thread to make allegations that I know to be untrue, if you have some allegation you wish to discuss or think I'm wrong start another thread and we can take up from their at least on topic.

Ice , this is your last warning, as a long time supporter of this site you know for certain what your saying is untrue, please don't disrespect me by stating I'm a liar without having proof to back your claims, Once again I ask you simply to just stick to the facts and leave the personal attacks out of any posts this include claiming I am going to ride roughshod over anyone or their views.


Folks, the status of the patch has not changed, its not finished so its not out there doing any damage whatsoever, what will do damage to the community is making false claims and misleading people, you have all seen how I am making a proposal openly and trying to answer any concerns in a constructive way, my concern is this :

When those who feel the need to abuse me for making a proposal have done their work, who are the users supposed to trust when we need them to act swiftly in the future to secure the network in any emergency ?

That's right folks by undermining myself your actually undermining both user trust and potentially damaging the network by depleting of the user-base, if folks read that I'm a villain and an liar the why should they trust the patch this site is offering, I hope you see the damage you can potentially cause to the community with misleading statements and downright lies that are to be honest totally unnecessary.

I'm not asking anyone to agree or disagree with me in my proposal, just lets have a sensible discussion based on technical factors and if you must political factors, that you believe are likely to have an effect on the community overall, as repeated many times now this is a proposal and no code or patch has been released so lets see some more mature attitudes in your posts please.

[icedragon]

but thats exactly what your doing quicks rideing rough shot over everybody and there views, take your replys to merlins very genuine concerns as a prime example............
just suddenly you seem blind to what is the obvious.........
and what is it im saying is untrue ? or does the truth hurt so much you refuse to see or accept it........and your veiled threat to ban me smacks of censorship.........if you cant answer the tough questions then just say so..........
you have brought this on your self quicks.......no one else to blame or point the finger at............
quote from quicks
Ice , this is your last warning, as a long time supporter of this site...........
yes thats right a long term supporter of this site over 2 years and thousands of hours put in fixing broken pie installs and the many other issues users of this community have found them selves in............and yet the very thing winmxworld was founded on is now no longer revelant........the community...............self appointed committees..........doing back room deals with those that haver stated publically and more then once that if they cant control winmx they will destroy it, a scheme that places the very existance of winmx in jepordy............and not to mention the current philosphey of winmxworld is a complete reversal of what it was only a month ago..........you have tried doing deals with pie in the past with the last effort them useing the blocklist which backfired with gem releasing a long winded bag of lies as to why no one should be useing the winmxworld blocklist..............and now suddenly you find these very same people so trustworthy your prepared to risk everything................
if you want to ban me go right ahead............the very fact that you are now beyond reasoning with, makes this all pointless as your going to proceed regardless..............but when all this stupidity comes back to bite you on the ass, as it will, anything associated with pie is doomed to failure anyways, least the community will know were to look when winmx is closed permanantly..............just hope you have a large capacity on your email account to handle all the thank you notes........... 

[GhostShip]

I dont actually use email Ice but regardless, your out of order with your claims and off topic, if you dont like me as a person suck it in, this is a winmx forum, nothing more or less.

Your claims are false and I will now take the action I warned you of.

[]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.]

i appologise for any possible personal attacks but when pushed i tend to push back right or wrongly thats how it is ...back on topic though as quoted b4 i have a few questions i would like answerd

ghostship August 11, 2007, 10:43:51 am

As regards the coders working on the patch they are a mixed group of folks from both camps and looking to the future, we have twice seen how relying on a single entity leads to the path of ruin and in this respect they are in the same boat as we where vis-a-vis Sabre.

ghostship August 15, 2007, 06:47:19 pm

I had felt it was prudent some weeks ago to ask a small team of coders to make something that could hold us together if KM pulls the rug as he could at any moment, while this project alone is appealing, I had the idea to ask our fellow winmx users and some of their representatives from other sections of the community for their input on an open src patch.
Why open src ? , well two reasons, one I feel we are not gaining in the coding front and our knowledge pool is diminishing, this was on one hand an effort to ensure the future for other users is secure when all the coders have left, and as I have also explained it would please many to be able to use a patch without fear of unknown functions, its not so much the functions but the fear of the unknown thats the main factor.

Is it coders from both groups as quoted on august 11 or from fellow winmx users and some of their representatives from other sections of the community as quoted on august 15 ?
because from where i see it there has only ever been one group that has come up with a decent patch and that has been the one here all along..... so why the need to add others to this group of coders when the best avalable is already in place (unless we are talking of new coders from outside the box which the above statements do nothing to sugest that this is the case)
after all if the ppl from pie was more knowlegable do you think there would be a snowballs chance in hell of the invite coming from them in the 1st place (i dont think so for a second)
this is not to get personal its to point out that they have nothing to bring to the table thats not already there anyway (or is this not the case since km has gone & they are know needed by wmw)

as for open source and the reasoning that fear of the unknown being the main factor in wanting things this way i dont buy that either....my reasoning is because there has only ever been pie sugesting this as scaremongering tactics to try to get users to use there patch & because they now want on board they now want to cover up the lies about this by introuducing a new all dancing all singing patch to cover up  fact that this was never the case anyway and it was all lies about it all along.

i am all for a new patch that to coin a phrase does everything it says on the can (work for everyone without all the diffrent settings & adjustments as less confusion would make for a larger userbase over night for sure as i am sure everyone would welcome)
but i just cannot see that by going open source this is going to attract new coders (something i also agree is needed) all i see is it pleasing a small minority of ppl to help cover up there lies about the previous patch and furthur more expose winmx to all & sundry to attack it in the future

if there are new coders from outside the existing groups ones then please enlighten us as to who and where they have come from as i am sure we would also welcome this news as this would be real progress ( & if this be the case there reasoning for wanting it open source would be appreciated & if they have any fears of this becoming so)
as i see it atm its just existing coders updating/modyfying/devoloping  an existing patch to cover up previous lies to allow them to become part of one team and not loose face over it & wanting to gamble away the future of winmx nothing more
new coders would be great but just wanting the ones on board that have caused as many problems for winmx as all the cartells put together and frontcode pulling out just dosent add up
as i said b4 what would they bring to the table thats not already there?

[KM - Apparently Banned!!!]

the claims that you censor anything that doesn't agree with what you say is false?

You have just done it to yet another admin, in the exact same fucking post that you claimed you don't do it! you just basically said "your claims I ban people for disagreeing with me are false, I will now ban you for disagreeing with me"!!!!!

I strongly suggest you and the others in your little dictatorship group resign and transfer the site to someone respectable (although the last respectable person resigned earlier in the thread so that might be challenging), otherwise who knows what might happen once the number of admins banned for daring to question you hits that magic number 14...

hell on earth: you seem mistaken, nothing ever came from "winmxworld", it came from winmxgroup - aka me, there are absolutely no programmers with any skill at all associated with either winmxworld or mxpie, both are programmerless and are running around trying to find any script kiddies they can, handing them as much info as they can about the network (which in the case of mxpie is nothing, and in the case of mxghostship is a load of incomplete documents mostly obtained from myself whilst i was working on things), and begging them to edit some public example code in to something that sort of works

[]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.]

i stand corrected sorry for the confusion on my part