clafirication on official winmxworld policy

[]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.]

Well, i aint Ghost, but your questions have already been answered in this thread

if they had i wouldnt have still been asking.... the question was who not what they are doing so ill think i will wait for the answers from the person  they was directed to thanks (not a difficult one but still waiting 3 days later instead of the 3 hours or so as promised at the time)
although bearded i hope your wrong because if they are struggling to get a dll working what chance is there of plugging any exploits
(i suspect very little)

[Bearded Blunder]

or even seeing them hell, which is part of my point, hollow has been "working on" an alternate patch now for months, i've seen him quiz KM on occasions (sorry nobby if it's that one it won't be completely free of being "tainted by KM"....), inluding asking KM directly if he could include a function of KM's

[GhostShip]

Your quite correct Merlin, Hollow did ask if he could include a function in the patch although he had already written it, the function was a bypass to the lockout feature that blocks pie secondaries from connecting to dll primaries. He asked as he did not wish to damage KMs blocking/ filtering system,  please do your homework before spouting nonsense that implies someone is deficient in some way.

For your further information the patch is in the hands of another coder (you where told its a multiple coder effort) who is working on it, its mutating into a different beast than the original build, are we going to demand to know who it is as well so we can launch personal attacks on them Merlin ?

Those that "need to know" know and those that don't wont be told at this time or any other if that's the coders wish.

As per the delay in providing what I promised as well as taking a small break from here to ask myself why I bother doing anything for the community, a certain hitch has turned up that may render the point mute, I have asked the group to convene at the earliest they can to make a decision on the matter, you will be informed of the decision in due course after its made, and please don't panic this is not anything to do with deploying the patch in a secret move as some will no doubt claim.

[KM]

even more basic information that you don't think people have a right to know? yet another list of people we are expected to trust, yet not allowed to even know who they are?

[dazco]

Iam dismayed !!!  you guys are the ones behind keeping winmx connected and yet after reading this thread i cant believe my eyes. Personally i dont care about the politics all that matters is we get a patch that keeps winmx connecting and hopefully resolve the problems we are all having with secondary connections. You can make some people happy some of the time but not all the people all of the time, for christ sake put winmx first and forget your egos for once !!!

[Bearded Blunder]

someone is deficient...

three places i've asked for explanations (qualifier, when i'm not falling asleep or studying)

evidently someone can't read

their name is "GhostShip"

either that or they're outright devious preferring to use calls for questions (which they then don't answer) as a smokescreen to hide the fact they know perfectly well they're acting against the wishes of the majority with no moral right or community mandate to do so

when were you given the mandate to hold secret meetings with secret groups & make decisions for us all without us even knowing what they're about?

this is the standard of "honesty" i expect from spokesmen for political parties, i don't vote because  i have no respect at all for the low-lifes that employ such tactics, you're doing a very good job of destroying the last vestiges of respect i had for you

[]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.]

After several heated debates and the below being posted i thought fair enough i will be reasonable and ask some questions that i thought important

I'm sure one of the other posters will answer your question there Toad, I for one am sure they have deep enough pockets to know such things.

Hell, I think its clear you too have concerns but never get the idea that's a licence to be rude and then claim censorship, your abusing the entire forum by doing so, just make your point and let others explore differing aspects than the one you proffer, I have given considerable leeway with many of your obnoxious comments to ensure you are heard but as I posted, either show some respect for the forum or don't post here, I'm not wanting to ban anyone nor have I despite claims by folks who know better of all sorts of wrongdoing, no proof is ever given to back those claims, so please as I asked you nicely stop fabricating rumours and stick to the facts, any more personally aimed attacks will see your access cut as I'm not going to allow you to use this thread to make allegations that I know to be untrue, if you have some allegation you wish to discuss or think I'm wrong start another thread and we can take up from their at least on topic.

Ice , this is your last warning, as a long time supporter of this site you know for certain what your saying is untrue, please don't disrespect me by stating I'm a liar without having proof to back your claims, Once again I ask you simply to just stick to the facts and leave the personal attacks out of any posts this include claiming I am going to ride roughshod over anyone or their views.


Folks, the status of the patch has not changed, its not finished so its not out there doing any damage whatsoever, what will do damage to the community is making false claims and misleading people, you have all seen how I am making a proposal openly and trying to answer any concerns in a constructive way, my concern is this :

When those who feel the need to abuse me for making a proposal have done their work, who are the users supposed to trust when we need them to act swiftly in the future to secure the network in any emergency ?

That's right folks by undermining myself your actually undermining both user trust and potentially damaging the network by depleting of the user-base, if folks read that I'm a villain and an liar the why should they trust the patch this site is offering, I hope you see the damage you can potentially cause to the community with misleading statements and downright lies that are to be honest totally unnecessary.

I'm not asking anyone to agree or disagree with me in my proposal, just lets have a sensible discussion based on technical factors and if you must political factors, that you believe are likely to have an effect on the community overall, as repeated many times now this is a proposal and no code or patch has been released so lets see some more mature attitudes in your posts please.

This below is the post i made sections in blue quotes previously from ghost ship earlier in the topic

Is it coders from both groups as quoted on august 11 or from fellow winmx users and some of their representatives from other sections of the community as quoted on august 15 ?
because from where i see it there has only ever been one group that has come up with a decent patch and that has been the one here all along..... so why the need to add others to this group of coders when the best avalable is already in place (unless we are talking of new coders from outside the box which the above statements do nothing to sugest that this is the case)
after all if the ppl from pie was more knowlegable do you think there would be a snowballs chance in hell of the invite coming from them in the 1st place (i dont think so for a second)
this is not to get personal its to point out that they have nothing to bring to the table thats not already there anyway (or is this not the case since km has gone & they are know needed by wmw)

as for open source and the reasoning that fear of the unknown being the main factor in wanting things this way i dont buy that either....my reasoning is because there has only ever been pie sugesting this as scaremongering tactics to try to get users to use there patch & because they now want on board they now want to cover up the lies about this by introuducing a new all dancing all singing patch to cover up  fact that this was never the case anyway and it was all lies about it all along.

i am all for a new patch that to coin a phrase does everything it says on the can (work for everyone without all the diffrent settings & adjustments as less confusion would make for a larger userbase over night for sure as i am sure everyone would welcome)
but i just cannot see that by going open source this is going to attract new coders (something i also agree is needed) all i see is it pleasing a small minority of ppl to help cover up there lies about the previous patch and furthur more expose winmx to all & sundry to attack it in the future

if there are new coders from outside the existing groups ones then please enlighten us as to who and where they have come from as i am sure we would also welcome this news as this would be real progress ( & if this be the case there reasoning for wanting it open source would be appreciated & if they have any fears of this becoming so)
as i see it atm its just existing coders updating/modyfying/devoloping  an existing patch to cover up previous lies to allow them to become part of one team and not loose face over it & wanting to gamble away the future of winmx nothing more
new coders would be great but just wanting the ones on board that have caused as many problems for winmx as all the cartells put together and frontcode pulling out just dosent add up
as i said b4 what would they bring to the table thats not already there?

I then recieved this reply

quote from  GhostShip August 17, 2007, 03:58:27 pm »

I,ll deliver a full and concise reply to your post Hell as you have taken the time to ask for details its only correct I supply them to you, this will be in apporoximately 2 to 3 hours , thanks for your patience.

So 16 hours later i asked again

quote from  ]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[. August 18, 2007, 08:18:38 am »

still waiting for a reply to my legitimate post as promised or is it only abusive ones that get answers afteral?

To which i recieved
quote from  GhostShip on: August 18, 2007, 08:51:05 am »

Your quite correct in your summing up there Hell, I am writing a tutorial style page for you all to read with diagrams etc as I  promised and I will try to ensure its  completed as rapidly as possible, I am however having to try to dufuse a lot of anger behind the scenes that is taking up the vauable time I should have been spending on writing up  the promised info, I hope you and others accept my apologies for the delay 

 

reply
quote from  ]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[. August 18, 2007, 09:14:45 am »

no worries just thought it had got lost ty

So i wait yet another  30 hours  & post

quote from  ]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[. August 20, 2007, 03:03:10 am »

nudges ghost to see how them answers are coming along to my post August 17, 2007, 12:43:53 pm 

To which i recieve a private msg from
 silicon_toad2000  « Sent to: ]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[. on: August 20, 2007, 03:43:16 am »

He is working really hard on it and I have put forward as many questions as i can think of as well
it should be up soon...
thankyou for been patient as I know you have been waiting

so i am still waiting untill today to read the post quoted below

quote from  GhostShip Today at 09:57:20 am »

For your further information the patch is in the hands of another coder (you where told its a multiple coder effort) who is working on it, its mutating into a different beast than the original build, are we going to demand to know who it is as well so we can launch personal attacks on them Merlin ?

Those that "need to know" know and those that don't wont be told at this time or any other if that's the coders wish.

so it took from
August 17, 2007, 12:43:53 pm  right up untill Today at 09:57:20 am  almost four full days and a load of b/s excuses and reasons  to come up with the above excuse after a perfectly reasonable post  ......  something that ghostship and several others have been bleating on about... us asking questions in a reasonable manner instead of heated debate decending to abusive comments (from both sides i may add)
questions that we were told would be fully answerd

so who is being honest here ? ( ill leave that for you to work out for yourselves)

All i can see is all the honesty that was promised has know become on a "need to know" basis & obviously the users of winmx dont need to know fuck all about who could be responsible for destroying winmx as we know it

quote from Bearded Blunder Today at 08:54:43 pm

when were you given the mandate to hold secret meetings with secret groups & make decisions for us all without us even knowing what they're about?

you know what they say about secrets and lies going hand in hand bearded m8....... would certainly seem the case here

or as you said b4

either that or they're outright devious preferring to use calls for questions (which they then don't answer) as a smokescreen to hide the fact they know perfectly well they're acting against the wishes of the majority with no moral right or community mandate to do so

as dismayed as you may be dazco & your words

Personally i dont care about the politics all that matters is we get a patch that keeps winmx connecting and hopefully resolve the problems we are all having with secondary connections. You can make some people happy some of the time but not all the people all of the time, for christ sake put winmx first and forget your egos for once !!!

do you realy think that without the ppl here asking the questions and letting ppl ride roughshod over winmx doing as they please this is realy going to be achieved ?????? (no way no how when they cant even answer the simple questions honestly)

[GhostShip]

Merlin,  Hell, While the group of you spread unsettling and misleading claims on this site I shall take my time in bothering to do anything for you, what you have both forgotten is that this site is operated by volunteers, staffed by volunteers and the patch is being designed and coded by volunteers, in short you have no rights to demand anyone jump when you get a rant on.

I spoke to KM some days ago and he raised a valid point, that point had to be reffered to the group, so while your free to take cheap shots as you have been doing, I am not, I asked for further patience to ensure I had the backing of the supervisors before proceeding to reveal certain information to you and it seems you both feel your rights superceed evryone elses, there is a word for folks  like yourselves, selfish.

Do not expect any further niceties if this is the way you treat people, your actions are disgraceful and underhand.


KM when you open src your programs then you can say who should or should not do anything for the community, I will not be making any names public as I have not been asked to by those coding who could rightly say they dont wish to be personally attacked or harrassed by certain forum parasites, who of late seem to be attacking anyone they dont agree with.
If you feel incapable of reading the src code and need to speak to the coders to get some explanation of how it works I,m sure they will help you out, trust does not enter into anything when the code is there for all to see.

Merlin I suggest you take stock of your further abuse of me , you will not be asked any further times to refrain, Ice was banned for making the same claims as you have just made, and I will think nothing of doing the same to you, keep your petty vindictiveness to yourself.

[Mick832]

still waiting for a reply to my legitimate post as promised or is it only abusive ones that get answers afteral?

no worries just thought it had got lost ty

nudges ghost to see how them answers are coming along to my post August 17, 2007, 12:43:53 pm   

Well, i aint Ghost, but your questions have already been answered in this thread

if they had i wouldnt have still been asking.... the question was who not what they are doing so ill think i will wait for the answers from the person  they was directed to thanks (not a difficult one but still waiting 3 days later instead of the 3 hours or so as promised at the time)
although bearded i hope your wrong because if they are struggling to get a dll working what chance is there of plugging any exploits
(i suspect very little)

As per the delay in providing what I promised as well as taking a small break from here to ask myself why I bother doing anything for the community, a certain hitch has turned up that may render the point mute, I have asked the group to convene at the earliest they can to make a decision on the matter, you will be informed of the decision in due course after its made, and please don't panic this is not anything to do with deploying the patch in a secret move as some will no doubt claim.

OK the way I read this is that you have not answered the questions asked, but you say "a certain hitch has turned up that may render the point mute".

Are there problems that you have uncovered and now you may need to shelve that patch, or at least spend considerable time reworking it.   If so then the questions relating to that particular patch need not be answered, but questions relating to concerns about open source and other general concerns seem to still need to be answered.

This post just seems to be going around in circles and it is not becoming much clearer to me.    Maybe Hell can simply post his concerns and they can be answered.    Seems to be more time spent arguing back and forth than actually giving answers.

Just my opinion.

[Bearded Blunder]

Merlin I suggest you take stock of your further abuse of me , you will not be asked any further times to refrain, Ice was banned for making the same claims as you have just made, and I will think nothing of doing the same to you, keep your petty vindictiveness to yourself.

OK i EXPLICITLY claim that you are being deliberately evasive because your actions are shameful, you know they are & you prefer banning people to defending the indefensible....

secrecy begets tyranny

secrecy has been going on too long here to prevent it begetting tyranny.. it's too late for that now & i openly call you a tyrant.

you claim there is a core group, which is a complete sham, as a former "member" of it i know that what happens is you decide & then present people with done deals, there is no discussion ahead of time, & no consultation whatsoever on any policy, unless it's the sort that government uses when it's already decided to close a hospital & then "consults" & closes it anyhow having found almost universal disagreement

i caution EVERYONE to consider VERY CAREFULLY before putting their trust in ghostship, i certainly don't think winmx is safe in his hands

go ahead & ban me, ban everyone who doesn't play yes man.. you will anyway, it's so much easier than answering legitimate concerns, after all if none of us is left free to post, the remainder proves that you have unanimous support...

this place is worse than a banana republic

You and others may have noticed i have at no point withdrawn my support for users from this site, or from the room , where i've continued to help as i can, unlike yourself i actually give a shit about the users & their opinions & valid problems or concerns. 
To those users who i can't help as a result i'm sorry.  Try asking ghostship.. he seems to be under the impression winmx is his private kingdom & he's absolute monarch, or some of the remaining people who havn't seen through him yet....

Had you actually bothered to address peoples concerns this thread would be a great deal shorter, but the only person who's views questions & concerns matter to you is yourself.  This of course proves that i'm the one being selfish.

To my friends on this site (the real ones), farewell, i shall miss you, but i doubt i'll bother with proxies to get round the censorship that blocking my ip amounts to, or at least, not often, to the ex pie users & members who have recently migrated here, i'm sorry you left it until after the place went bad.. people here *USED* to care about truth & openness.

[]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.]

quote from ghost ship today at 02:38:27 am

Merlin,  Hell, While the group of you spread unsettling and misleading claims on this site I shall take my time in bothering to do anything for you, what you have both forgotten is that this site is operated by volunteers, staffed by volunteers and the patch is being designed and coded by volunteers, in short you have no rights to demand anyone jump when you get a rant on.

amazing how you find it so easy to post a reply bitching and winging when its something you dont like ehh ghost ??

was it not you calling for calm and questions instead of rants ???

what happens ..... fuck all except you dodge the questions and then come up with the crap above.. i suggest it is   you   that should be ashamed for your actions

we posted as you asked and you   said you would answer full and frankly to any legitimate questions so dont lean back on the   

in short you have no rights to demand anyone jump when you get a rant on

to bluff your way out of this
you are the one unsettling and missleading people by going back on your own words about honesty so dont throw that one back at us at this point to try decieve ppl even more ghost

as with bearded i also throughout this have spent time ( also as a volunteer) helping ppl of the winmx comunity so no need to use the poor me one there ghost its what we all chose to do
the only reason you didnt answer was because you would have been found wanting for answers as you have throughout this thread showing you as nothing but pig headed and arrogant towards all users of winmx & you cant stand the fact myself ...bearded ... ice ... km... to name a few have pointed this out for all to see
you try make us out to be the bad guys when its you thats avoiding all the issues asked

quote from ghost ship today at 02:38:27 am

Do not expect any further niceties if this is the way you treat people, your actions are disgraceful and underhand.

thats fine ghost dont expect none back after your own "disgraceful and underhand"  behavoiour

legitimate questions met with no answers yet your quick to reply when we post questioning your own personal actions & behaviour
seems we are not the only ones that are "disgraceful and underhand" ghostship
 threatening to ban anyone that goes against you because you dont agree  they call that one power tripping

[Mizz]

enough already !!!


Im going to make this a general thing for all that posted on this topic and that includes myself !

i was wrong in the way i let my self get angry on this topic...VERY wrong even...and i should have known better..it was useless and to  no effect at all...getting angry does not solve the issue at hand..

People have posted strongly here...they even went over the line at times, myself included, bu i am sure they did it with the best of winmx in their head and heart and thats something that all sides seem to be forgetting...

comments and remarks were made and friendships are about to be shot straight to hell coze no one wants to looze face it seems well let me say this..

For all those posting, again i include myself, think before you speak...precious friendships are about to get kicked to the curb due to stupidity and stubborn behaviour.. is it really worth it ?  yelling has never made anyone listen better....people tend to get deaf to youre arguments so maybe use a lower tone and they will start listening again...

This post has done nothing more then show all the people that read it that we clearly arnt doing a very good job here....the fingerpointing MUST stop already....this goes for everyone, again myself included...if you have a point to make...then MAKE IT, be to the point and dont get emotional about it....emotional thinking leads to eratic behaviour and again...it solves NOTHING..

As for Ghostship....whilst i know that you are doing this with the community at heart you to should remind yourself of the following... you made a promise that answers would be comming...you even apologized for the fact there was a delay in said post.... and then a post gets made that says it will be on a need to know bases and the group will convene at the earliest point in time... surely you see the flaw in this yes ? people have asked questions here and they feel they have not been answered or avoided even tho they have been promised that answers were on the way....can you really blame them for thinking that something is not right here ? to be honoust i cant blame them at all...the way they made their point about this might leave to be desired but as you they also are stronghearted people with the best for winmx in mind...something everyone seems to have forgotten at this point...

I am not for or against the os patch...i will leave that question to smarter people who know what they are talking about.. i am however for friendship, good conversation, and honousty... something that has almost (note the ALMOST) been killed.

thats why i would like ALL of you and i mean every single one on this topic to take a good long look at yourself, again including myself here, and see what you are doing and reconsider if you really want to follow the path you have chosen.

As a final word i would like to say this.... the opensource patch may or may not become fact in the future....but i will give you this to consider....so many people are against it....will it be worth it in the end to have an opensource patch when you have no friends left ? and the room is sitting empty ?  personaly i think not, keeping in mind that i dont really care weather it comes or doesnt come...i care more about the fact that if this patch would come out and people would leave over it...it wouldnt be worth it...

im not saying anyone is right, or anyone is wrong, im saying look at yourself and what you are about to give up......dont just sit there and say your right coze you feel it that way...dont just sit there and say....those who need to know know ! thats not going to work coze winmx wasnt made out of 6 people to begin with. sit there and think to yourself if this is really worth it to loose youre LONGTIME friends over.

and hey i know im proberbly way out of line...being a shorttimer and all but im not willing to give up friends i just made over ANYTHING... and i would hope you all feel the same way !

[GhostShip]

I have been open and honest at all stages with you Hell, just because I am privy to information on events that you are not and have to change my actions accordingly this gives no one a right to call me a liar or make serious allegations against me as both yourself and Merlin have been doing, I explained the delay to you in the last post.

Merlin (then a supervior) had the basic concerns of KM explained to him last week but says he is unable to understand the information he was given, he has since not even asked for any further help/info  so you,ll understand that I dont see people taking pot shots at me due to their own failure to gather information something legitimate.

For your own notes lets go over some points, KM started the thread and has not backed up his claims at any stage, he then threatened to hand over his list of exploits to Macrovision, neither yourself or Merlin protested, Merlin has been in contact during this time with KM and yet still seems to have gained no further knowledge, now lets stop wasting more of my time with false allegations and wait for the group to be fully informed and make a decision I asked them to advise me on.

Your impatience helps no one, and I for one am sick of the drama, as are many.

If acting responsibly by discussing matters with the other long time winmx folks here in democratic fashion makes me a tyrant then so be it, Merlin, what you seem to have mssed is that while you may have a legitimate concern you seem unable to handle yourself in a respectable and reasonable manner when others have concerns that are above your trust level.


Mizz I understand your wish for peace but while those folks who want things their way or nothing, continue to call myself names and denegrate the entire team on the site with lies I will not put up with it, especially since this same person has been acting behind the communities back with the originator of this thread and not said a word about it anywhere here, strange for an alleged  paragon of honesty and openess.
  

[KM]

I spoke to KM some days ago and he raised a valid point, that point had to be reffered to the group, so while your free to take cheap shots as you have been doing, I am not, I asked for further patience to ensure I had the backing of the supervisors before proceeding to reveal certain information to you and it seems you both feel your rights superceed evryone elses, there is a word for folks  like yourselves, selfish.

I believe I have raised a lot of valid points, do you wish to tell everyone which this one point you admit is a problem is? just so we know which ones you are still trying to claim as not being valid...

KM when you open src your programs then you can say who should or should not do anything for the community,

what the hell does the fact I have had to make the decision repeatedly and you have *never* had to make any such decision have to do with anything? surely you should either be claiming the experience of making the decision is irrelevant? otherwise saying the fact I'm much more experienced at having to make that sort of decision than yourself only serves to point out that you should not be trying to claim you know better?

I will not be making any names public as I have not been asked to by those coding who could rightly say they dont wish to be personally attacked or harrassed by certain forum parasites, who of late seem to be attacking anyone they dont agree with.

so it's that they plan to do something they know to be wrong and that they know will cause problems, and they don't want to take responsibility for their own actions?

If you feel incapable of reading the src code and need to speak to the coders to get some explanation of how it works I,m sure they will help you out, trust does not enter into anything when the code is there for all to see.

I'm sure macrovision will be taking you up on that and asking for clarification on any flaws they find

Merlin I suggest you take stock of your further abuse of me , you will not be asked any further times to refrain, Ice was banned for making the same claims as you have just made, and I will think nothing of doing the same to you, keep your petty vindictiveness to yourself.

Apparently a lot of people have been banned for making the "false" claim that you don't know what you are doing - perhaps instead of just insisting that everyone is wrong you should perhaps provide some form of evidence that you do know what you are doing? I'm sure it would be like someone trying to prove they know more about how WCS works than me - I mean just because you've never had anything to do with any programming, have no idea at all when it comes to the intricate details of a patch, etc etc, surely that doesn't mean you might know less than the person who has made the only one so far?

[GhostShip]

If I had wished to make your "point" public KM I would not be asking the group for their opinions on it as and when I can reach all of them for a vote, you see democracy is important more so since its been seen by some that certain folks are prone to act anti-democratically such as yourself.

Am I further to believe the same man who was going to leave the community, then wanted to set up a site with Merlin to rival this one and then threatened to hand over his exploits to macrovision is someone I should listen to for moral advice ?

Trust is something that takes time to build and can be demolished in a short time by repeated lies, I have been open and honest at all times, any questions not yet answered are few and likely under your own interpretation to be of help to idiots seeking exploits, something I also made clear many pages ago was a concern.

For now I have had to cut away the rotten apples, now please put your own house in order before coming here to cause further community disrupting drama.



 

[dazco]

Iam just a normal mx users who hosts a room for 50 plus users i have no in depth idea what is involved in keeping the mx network up but i was drawn to this thread because it remined me of being back at school on the playground!

Anyway Ive tried all patches for mx and theres no doubt the dll works best, uses less bandwidth and is reliable i cant see any reason for making the source code open source when it has not been up until now. The only reason i personally can see for this is because the pie team want it that way and always have. Surely if there is a flaw in a patch the types of the RIAA will find it and use it agaisnt mx if given the source code to work with or am i out of my depth ? why try to fix whats not broken springs to mind.

I hope you guys resolve your differences and work together and please spare a thought for users like me who just like mx for sharing files and meeting friends

[dazco]

Can i also ask for the reason to make the dll patch source code open for all to see as it has not be posted yet iam just curious why this has caused such an uproar between what appears to be a group of friends

[]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.]

that is the whole point dazco & why we protest so that everyone can continue to enjoy winmx & so that ppl dont play god with it to jepordise its future

as for the coders not wanting to be known using an excuse that they dont want personal attacks against them is pretty lame from ppl who should have enough faith in there own abilitys (or not if they think they will be personaly attacked ) to be able to provide a guarentee that what they are doing is the right thing for winmx by wanting it open source and they are good enough to pick up any flaws that may arise
but it would seem that by hideing away they cannot confirm this

i know that in my own chosen field i have the belief in myself to defend & justyfy any actions i take

all i can see is that if it goes ahead and if it all goes belly up they dont want to take the rap from 10s of thousands of winmx users
obviously they cant be sure this wont happen so are hedging there bets by not wanting to be known

qoute from ghost ship Today at 09:57:55 am

I have been open and honest at all stages with you Hell, just because I am privy to information on events that you are not and have to change my actions accordingly this gives no one a right to call me a liar or make serious allegations against me as both yourself and Merlin have been doing, I explained the delay to you in the last post.

 If acting responsibly by discussing matters with the other long time winmx folks here in democratic fashion makes me a tyrant then so be it

what the core group of 5 other long term winmx users ???? real democratic that ghost
you explained nothing in the post except for more secret meetings & desisions to be made by just a few ppl (that was after posting that the questions would be answerd openly and honestly ( but i guess that only comes into play when it suits you)
if there wasnt all the secrecy ( secret coders /secret meetings/"privy to information on events that you are not" remarks ) then ppl here wouldnt have so many suspicions as to the motives & reasoning to something  you so obviously want but  the majority dont and have grave fears/concerns  about

if the boot was on the other foot and i told you i would have open and honest answers for you then retracted that l8er on i know damn well you would be seeking answers and have suspicions as to why.... just as anyone else would

being open and honest is not having secret coders and secret information and backtracking on statements made to suit yourself   its about being open and honest to all the people about the subject in hand especialy when it concerns a whole comunity such as winmx

while we are at it you can also climb down off that high morrel horse about abuse and personal attacks as you yoursef have been a major frontrunner in those stakes as well as anyone else
making it all the worse concidering the lofty position you hold here
perhaps leading by example instead of trying to disscredit everyone opposed to yourself might put you in better stead in future

[GhostShip]

Hell I really have been honest with you I do have many conflicting demands to deal with, I have written most of what I said I would as well as posting in this thread to make information available as and when I can.

As per the secrecy, lets look at that, I have proposed an open src patch, so far not a single line of code is out in the wild, so lets be clear nothing has changed since last month in reality, now zoom forward to today when I am under attack from 3 sides, and for what ? A proposal that will go through a democratic vote.

Now you ask why any coder should or would like to be attacked by those intent on trying to subvert the site with false claims, I have taken it upon myself to speak with both KM and Merlin and both to my knowledge know who the coders are, Merlin was given a whole raft of information to read through, it is then only you and the users who have had to remain patient for the cogs and wheels to turn on deciding what information should be released and this delay only because KM decided on your behalfs that certain topics "could" be dangerous, you would have lost all respect for me if I had taken no notice of his words and merely published things that both he and Merlin had grave concerns over, so I put the matter to a vote, some of the voters have yet to decide their position on this and I dont see the need to rush them along while nothing in the real world has changed except a few peoples trust affiliations.

Not once has anyone said this will be released without a vote and yet those who peddle fear took it upon themselves to attempt to force their opinions on the rest of us multiple times while having secret meetings themselves.

Can you explain how merely making a proposal is playing god, lets walk through this sensibly and then we can perhaps reach a stage of meaningful dialogue, after all its far simpler to speak with one rational man than a baying mob.

[KM]

I have taken it upon myself to speak with both KM and Merlin and both to my knowledge know who the coders are

so then you are confirming it is hollow you think can make it? the same one who was not long ago asking me for a damn instruction manual on patch making? (in fact he even went as far as asking for the source to my patch "to help him make his own patch"...)