POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?

[GhostShip]

There is nothing to work out Data.

Certain folks feel they should try to influence the future direction of the community by monopolising, I don't share that view and never will, my goal as a founder of this site is and will always be to help users with information and to keep winmx running by any and all means at my disposal, if others don't share this goal then its best for the community that they leave.
Whilst I'm well aware I don't win popularity competitions on this site I have at no time placed myself above the users as I am a user myself, those that do, have no place here.

Dragonrider, whilst I'm happy to see you posting here can I remind you not to spread unfounded rumours regarding the dll patch on this site, I have not at any time visited the lounge or pie sites to do the same and I would prefer you stuck to known facts when making remarks regarding how it works.
What has me concerned in particular is your claims stating how it has an auto updater and pop ups, everyone of the dll users is at least aware this is not true, it has no auto updater so I'm not actually clear what patch your testing out but its not one released by WinMxGroup or ourselves.

[Scyre]

Wow, there is a lot to respond to... But I am up to the task

First, with Nooky:
I really appreciate the support and understanding in my decision to do what I feel is right. You have always been one to think deeper on a subject than most, and are not prone to rash knee jerk responses, which I respect about you. You are very kind in your words and I hope that others can learn from your example, that quick judgment is foolish and people have a right to make their own decisions as to what is right for them.

To dragonrider: Again you humor me with your nonsense. just because Sabre went running to slyck to try to get some sort of credit proves nothing except he is a media hound.
"I look at this article and wonder...KM claims that it was his work that saved the WinMX community, Scyre claims that he saved the WinMX community." <--- I never said that I saved WinMX...that was Sabre after he decided my idea was correct As for KM, I will have to honestly say, if anyone can be credited for saving WinMX, then it is him. And you are fool if you think otherwise.
I notice you fail to mention that Sabre did nothing, and Ranma had KM's help because no one in that group could make a peercache. And when they did not listen to KM and Sabre tried to talk down to him, KM walked away from it. And I don't blame him. you see, before there was a PIE, I was working with Sabre and the gang (little did I know what they were like!) and was the first to suggest using hosts file to hijack the winmx.com domain name. Of course your Mighty Savior Sabre said "No that will never work." and acted like I was an idiot (just like they treated everyone, and eventually why I left that scheming bunch), but look at what they are all offering now. After they tried to combine with V44 and attempt a marketing approach (Everyone with money on their agenda), that is exactly what they are still offering to this day. Sad. No I didn't save winmx, but certainly the ones who still try to advance using my 'unusable idea' and have tried to claim operation costs and make money (since KM was paying for the only correctly working peercaches) were NOT saviors of WinMX either.
"Wasn't Vladd44 Help Channel one of the first to respond and give everyone a meeting place to work out the problem of reuniting the community while "chicken little" KM was running around wringing his hands and screaminig, "The sky is falling"...? "
Did you come from an alternate reality?! You see in this reality, the beginnings were taking place in another room, not V44, and after KM had attempted to work with the Sabre team, and was getting shit on, he decided to do it himself. I never remember him running around scared of the great big ending... I would bet only the pie propaganda machine would claim they remembered it that way.
"Didn't the Italians put together servers and peer caches at a moments notice? Odd that I don't hear all of those people screaming "Where is my pat on the back?". Why? Because what they did in a time of need they did for the community, not for recognition or for personal gain. Was their work hidden behind closed doors? No, it was freely given and distributed to the community so that everyone could re-connect and begin sharing again."
I know that there was some work being done to try to establish something, but was there ever a correctly working peercache that resulted? Correct me if I am wrong, please, but I thought all of that was abondoned because they couldn't get it to function right...(As far as I know) If there was ever a success, I never heard of it. KM released properly working peercaches, and everyone was trying to get ahold of them...even stealing the copies from him.
As for V44 being the equivilent of a free car lot, I disagree. There was NEVER any mention on the site that the links to payMX sites were fraudulant, and to avoid clicking on them. Why? Because that was more money for V44 for each click and purchase. It would have been easy to note on the page "hey these are pay links. We offer our version for free"...where was that little notice?

"The truth here is that many worked to resurrect WinMX and even though the different camps have different methods of keeping WinMX working every camp has the same goal, that goal is the survival of the WinMX community." I will agree with that statement. Many did work hard at it. And different groups had different ideas of how to make everything work. But on the same note, that does not excuse V44 for what it's site became, and that was by it's own doing. I do hope, however that is still the goal of everyone, to help the community. I also agree with you that there are good and bad people mixed with each group.
"Currently April and Bughunter are working on a patch independently, I don't think that anyone is "begging Scrye or anyone else to hand over their work". Scyre claims to have a patch ready to go that would help the entire community but refuses to release it for personal reasons." I am happy that ap and bug are working on their own idea, and think that raise should be given to their effort. As for begging me for anything: Perhaps you don't get it. I am saying everyone suddenly appears out of the woodwork expecting WMW to release sourcecode to everything. I am saying I will not be a part of that. Period. In fact I never made it public I even had a patch. Thank Ghost for letting that cat out of the bag, just for an attempt to trash me. He was all fine and good with me giving guidance to his programmer, until he finds out I already have a patch of my own. what difference does it make? I don't mind assisting someone who is developing something, but I am not handing over any source to anything. I was more than happy to give advice and suggest how to resolve issues, but as long as I am not supplying the actual code to them, then it really doesn't matter to me. I hope the WMW patch programmer succeeds. But I will not do coding on that project because I don't agree with the end goal of releasing the source to it. Had Ghost not announced on the public forum that I had my own patch, none of this would even be a big deal. FFS it isn't like it is even a finished product anyway! A LOT of testing is required, and going over for any unexpected behavior or exploits. I only said I had developed a functional patch, and I was not even sure if I would ever release it. So all this crap about 'He could have been the one to stop this WCS flood the whole time!' is pretty damned retarded. Last I knew WMW was filtering all that bogus traffic. But I guess they 'Abused the trust of the people by not stopping the WCS bug' as they claim of me. I don't remember writing WCS, much less ever being named as the responsible party in the event it has a bug.

I am glad you have the attitude of community effort these days, but that was not your stance before, nor was it the stance of V44 in general. So to now act like none of it ever happend is not realistic. Sure anyone can change their minds, and I hope the ones claiming to want community benefit really HAVE turned over a new leaf. I must say that until I know that for sure, I will not be doing anything to assist anyone with development, when it could potentially be abused or exploited like so much in the MX history has been. Forgive my skeptisism, but I only know myself well enough to place any bets, and I will not gamble on the words of others, especially after seeing all I have lately.

As for Ghost:
"you where handed 2 peer cache srcs and told to use them as reference to create something workable for the community to protect cache operators from the WCS bug" <--I am trying to find one part of this that is not a lie. I was sent the source to KM's linux version of a peercache that you told me you stole without his knowledge. What other peercache source was I given? Have you been giving out so much you are confusing me with somone else? I know you gave some to the italian group that wanted to finish a cache. And to "to use them as reference to create something" that is not accurate either. It should read "to convert straight over to a windows platform and remove KM identifiable parts so that no one can tell we stole his code" which is what you asked me to do.
"to protect cache operators from the WCS bug" <---What?! lmao! Until you decided to wage a smear campagn on me in this thread, this was never even brought up. You have invented a new purpose for what I was asked to do now. I was not asked to deal with the WCS bug, and that was never in the picture. It was for the sole purpose of having a working peercache taken straight from KM's hands.

"you chose to allow KM unrestricted help by doing nothing with either the cache srcs or the patch source" <--how is KM my responsibility? Out of all my kids, none of them seem to be named KM. My decision not to provide what you wanted was entirely your doing. You became what everyone is seeing here in this thread, and I chose not to empower you with anything that would give you more ability to ban all those people who 'abuse' MeHere by not agreeing with everything she says. I confronted you on that new policy and you said "well if you prefer freedom of specch over running a help room smoothly thats fine but why does that interest me ?" <--how about because people have a right to opinions. And no one wants to be strong armed into agreeing with someone. THAT'S why it should interest you.

And then you made a statement that I was shocked at:
"i have never claimed to be more pro free speech than vladd or knot " <--That is complete bullshit. You have been singing your own praises for a long time about you not censoring like V44 did... I am sure I am not the only one who remembers that.

And I even asked you point blank then "What do I have to look forward to if I put a lot in and one day I disagree with MH? Will it become a free speech issue?" Then I was a little more precise and asked again "I usually get along really well with MH and don't want to ever have problems, but it just concerns me that if I did disagree with something strongly and it was something I would not change my view on, would I be out the door..."  <--can you not see the effect that all the strongarming was having there?

So am I to feel bad for deciding that you have gone wild with trying to control all that is said and done? Not likely. I was not comfortable with supplying you with everything you wanted, because you were not who you had portrayed yourself to be. So I was WELL within my rights to decide not to.

"in effect you stopped others taking an active role by tying up our attentions"  <--do YOU even believe that load of dingo kidneys?   I very seriously doubt you are gonna be able to convince ANYONE that you were sitting there waiting by the chat window devoting all your attention to me. If so, then you may be a stalker lmao. I have not prevented anyone from doing anything. You told me that you had only one programmer and he was having problems. So me taking the place of all the ones standing in line to do that job is ludacrous, and just silly.

"its now clear anyone conversing with you is taking their privacy in their hands"  <-- if it is a matter of someone attempting to twist public perception of me, then you are damned right I will prove what I say, and I could care less if you approve of it or if I am lower than your worst enemy, etc. And if you think a day goes by that 100 people are not loggin your room, you are delusional.
rather than me having to prove you to be a liar, it would have been much simpler to listen when I told you to not turn this sour, and I really didn't want it to be like this. In the moderator's section I even told you "Leave it be" did I not?
I also said "I had a lot of respect for you, but as quickly as you attacked me, I cannot help but reconsider how quickly you made KM a public victim. I will not be made into the new KM and you will not trash my name without facing a great deal of truth yourself.
"
So if you want to attempt a public persecution of me, it is your downfall.

Funny you kinda give yourself away here: "people like himself sit by pontificating about morals" So I gather from this that morals do not matter, just what you want done? Is that why even though it is morally wrong to steal KM's work, you don't mind doing it? I will say again, as I said before, there are som people who still have morals. Those people will not agree with the 'ends justifying the means' as you seem to think. You told me once you wanted to do all of this honestly. Were you lying or did you just change your mind? I haven't changed my mind. I still believe that doing things morally right will get you where you need to be. Trying to cheat is not ok, is not honest, and will get you nowhere of importance. You should have taken the slower road to having original material and not trying to steal. I would not object in the slightest if KM had given you the code and said, "here it is in your hands. Do what you want." That would have been honest. See my problem with this situation?

Now I will happily answer your 2 questions:
"why did you take the patch src if you didn't need it"
How could I have helped <name omitted to protect the innocent> or guide them if I had no idea where they were at in coding, or what situations they were developing? Sure I could have guessed, but then again, I might have not been right if I did lol

"and two why did you do nothing to help folks suffering from the wcs bug when your saying clearly you could have"
When did I say I could have done anything about the wcs bug? (much less CLEARLY saying that!) That looks like another smear attempt to: first, make the people appear as if they are some sort of oppressed subjects at my mercy. And Second, try to make me look as if I have betrayed my duty to them.
The truth is I never said squat about the wcs bug, and never even said I had anything suitable for release. You think I was OBLIGATED to release something before it is ready and possibly cause a situation much worse than the WCS bug? yeah...great propaganda. You will go far in politics.


And my personal favorite:) :
"make no mistakes folks this one turncoat has probably doomed all the projects he was involved with"
LMFAO!
I have doomed something? Like what? Your career as a liar and theif?
I have done absolutely nothing to doom any work on any project, and I challenge you to prove that I have sabotaged ANYTHING.

If you are referring to the fact that KM may now sue you for theft, then perhaps I have... But something tells me that wasn't what you were trying to (falsely) acuse me of.

If you are now gonna try to use me as a scapegoat in case you cannot finish a patch or successfuly finish stealing and altering KM's peercache, then give up. I will not be responsible for your big mouth thinking you could handle everything KM did for the last 2 years and realizing too late you are over your head.

The only thing I am guilty of is walking blindly into your midst and taking you at face value. Thinking you were completely honest in your intentions and motives. Well I was wrong to believe in you, and I see that now.

For Nobby:
Vladd's was never attacked and everyone has asked forever now for som kind of proof, but there doesn't seem to be any. However, someone called Vladd's ISP and found out there was a planned outage and it was NOT an act of DOSing as you keep saying.
You of all people I have never been able to figure out. (Funny huh?) I have always thought "Why does someone as smart and understanding as yourself still cling to the V44 retoric? I have seen you come and go from this site, being banned over and over, and still trying to bridge the gap between the 2 main camps... For that I give you credit. Pretty persistant But in all the chaos you were there trying to work with both sides and I always thought it was so strange and out of place considering your personality lol.

And to Dragonrider again (lol):
There is no reason to think that there is anything else that the KM patch does. Just because we don't see the inside doesn't mean there is anything malicious in it. the only thing KM has done lately is discover his WCS had a bug. A bug is not intentional and the only reason everyone is in an uproar about it is because Ghost was pissed at KM and turned this bug into 'KM is attacking the network! He is just like Macrovision!" and now I think people are gonna be a little more careful not to jump on the alarmist bandwagon in the future. WCS was fixed, and all the demands in the world from someone who was already mad about other things, woud not change when KM had the time to act on it. That is the truth.
I would say, however that KM may have acted sooner if Ghost hadn't have made a public spectacle over it and tried to tear down his image as he has now tried to do to me.
As for the uninstaller, I have seen many uninstallers not function correctly, and there are a number of causes. You have to admit, even if you suspect KM on that, it could be a fluke or unrelated.

Be Good,
Scyre

(crap 3 more posts while I wrote.. lmao)

[Scyre]

lmao response to 3 more posts
------
Nooky, that is very true.

Data, I see your point. I did try to keep this in the moderator section, until Ghost wanted to bring it public and make it sour... I tried lol

Ghost,
Do you really think this is about monopolizing or are you just saying that to justify another 'about face'?
You have supported keeping the source closed for the last 2 years...

"by any and all means at my disposal"  <--that has serious implications. Those means should not include deceit of any kind. Be it lying or stealing. Or trying to attack someone for simply not wanting to be involved in something they don't agree with.

It isn't an issue of popularity. It is an issue of how far you are willing to go to get what you want, whether or not it is right or just.

I didn't want any of this to even start. I just wanted to excuse myself from what I don't agree with and think for a bit. You had no right to attack me for personal choices, and I hope you understand now, that I may be nice, but I refuse to be poked with a stick without showing my fangs.

Also, I noticed my admin removed lol I am suprised you waited that long to be honest.

There is one request I have though. I should win an award for the longest post ever written

Be Good,
Scyre

[chuck]

 You all need to understand that dragonrider is a mod of the vladd44 forum and from day one he has done nothing but try to spread disinformation about the DLL and to do every thing to build up the host file as the only choice. Im must say im suprised he is not back posting on vladd's forum which is back at http://www.vladd44.com/phpbb2/index.php
but after a quick look there i see there are only 3 people posting so i guess his job is now to work his slanted view on this forum.

 After all this has come about i did some checking and yes it looks like after nobby and dragonrider and what other pie members started posting here and trying to get info on a open source patch vladd has opened his forum and re done his main site looks like he is starting to get back in the winmx world again,i find it odd that nothing had been done as far as his site or bringing his forum back till all this started.

 Im sorry i tried to give all the pie members the benefit of the doubt  for their comeing here and posting, but now with their new up dated main site and their sort of hidden forum back up there is no link to it from their main site at http://www.vladd44.com/  , i have to wonder if they might be up to a new we saved winmx game.Vladd was ran off winmx and or chose to leave for his trying to make money off winmx once i said earler i didnt know who to trust any more i do know not to trust vladd and people that spread rhetoric in hopes of influencing the thought and conduct  of winmx users. Ive watched dragonrider's post on other forums and ive seen he has done every thing he can to discredit Km , this site and anyone useing the DLL patch.Is i take any thing he post with a grain of salt.

 Id not give much credit to any thing he may say . Id say this if i was going to say work with someone on a patch it would not be with someone or group that tried to make money off of a free program.

Some how i feel like with what is going on now caution should be used with dealing with pie members. Its just too odd for vlads forum to come back after so long and a new site update when all the open source patch talk is going on but who knows.

[Scyre]

chuck gets award for shortest

[chuck]

wow i had written a long post on how dragonrider is a mod on vladd44's forum and all his post ive seen on other sites what been putting down KM,Winmxworld members and Dll users.

 And that after all this time of vladd44's forum being off line and nothing being changed on his main site i now see he has updated his main site and opened his fourm back up but you will not find a link to it off his main site its here. http://www.vladd44.com/phpbb2/index.php

odd that all this has happened just after all the pie people came here and posted about getting the source to a new patch, I just cant trust someone that tried to make money off people for winmx and wonder if all this is in prep, for if they do get their hands on the source to a new patch so they may start vladd44 and his forum all over again.

 But that was a short6 post

[GhostShip]

You have stated you where leaving and for the usual security reasons its site policy to pull admin as you know having been around long enough.

Your whole take on this sounds like bull to me and heres why, you knew why a new patch was needed and could have released the patch yourself as KM did on another site, you seem unable to spot the rather large holes in your story such as if I wanted to monopolise things as you claim why was I helping others to create tools they needed where I could, using  Dracs code btw, just so you get your facts straight, if ppl like Drac had not decided to take a chance on handing me their work I,m 100% sure there would not be a working peer cache and you cant actually say any different much as you may like to.

I would like to see proof of Scyres claims of a turn about as it just does not look credible when faced with the facts, what many dont know is that I was offered help by two Italian programmers some time ago with the patch and had to refuse it as I would not give an undertaking of it being guaranteed open src, many know this from when I mentioned it to them, it was after all in keeping my promise to the community I did not take up this offer, if only Scyre was as honourable in his dealings with me, whilst he has been given every line of code at my disposal to do what was required to help the community, despite him stating on numerous occassions he was helping, he has delivered nothing, zero, except hot air and excuses, in the posts above  he admits he lied to me and others regarding any progress.
It seems my mistake is in believeing he felt the same as me about keeping the network operational, all he has succeeded in doing is damaging two ongoing projects to get both a patch and a cache src to remove any further of KM's power plays that disrupt the community, something Scyre seems to be copying with his expose style drama.

Selfish Scyre your no longer welcome, but feel free to do as you did in the moderators section in your initial post and launch yet more inuendo and factless based attacks, your just making yourself look like a prize plum.

And yes Scyre I decided long ago that I should prioritize the life of the network before any single users power trip, selfish I am not.
 

[ñòóKýçrÕôK]

First I apologise to Dragonrider, no call for me to be such a smartass, and in that I'm sorry. Pie, as far as I know has the only autoupdater and seriously the update bar only changes if there's a new patch or important patch information and the last change there was in the update bar for a dll user is it went from "Patch Operational" to "Patch Online". So I hope that clears up the popup thing cause I have no idea where you could've gotten that from but it wasn't the dll.

Quicks please let this end here. Enough of this fighting already. Too many people at each other here and honestly it's getting to be too much. Nothing said now will change anything and will only make more hurt in a wounded program and wounded friendships. Isn't friendships why we're all actually here? Isn't friendships why we all say we're doing this? If so then I suggest that now is time to put that to the test and just agree to disagree. These are not the actions of rational, responcible men and enough is enough.

And Scyre I understand you being angry but I do have to ask the same in you as I have asked in Quicks as to not let this go any further. Please now just agree to disagree and know that the two of you have reached an impass. There have been enough casualties and honestly before I think I can watch anymore I think I will walk away from the help room and not look back. It is not that I agree or disagree with anyone's views, but that I myself have seen enough broken friendships over this topic alone. And I am watching brilliant and resourcefull people tear at each other with reckless abandon and it is disturbing to watch. The time has come now that if you disagree then I think you should just say "Know what? This is not the direction I wish to go and now I must go my own way" and let that be that. I understand that is what you were trying to do and because it didn't happen this way you are upset. I think that everyone from here out should have the ability to just go, as long as that is what they are honestly trying to do.

To everyone else. Realise how close we are right now to losing everything because we are that close. Every major player in this has almost decided to go a completely different direction than the other and that is spreading things too thin. How much further will we stretch before we snap and all is lost? I started WinMX before my first daughter was born. She is now 8 years old. The room I originally started in was spun off from the room I am currently a reg in now which was here around a year before I started. This room is now one of two I am a reg in and there are only two rooms other than those I even visit. But before I would let all that disturb me as much as I have seen it disturb the people it has already I would rather close WinMX forever, delete it from my pc, and never come on it again. Friendships mean more than this program and somewhere along the way some of you seem to have forgotten that. Before you lose those friendships think about why you're so willing to give them up please. For a piece of code? Some writing in a file? Now I'm not saying give up on WinMX at all. But before I gave up on friendships WinMX would be off my pc and gone forever. Just think about that all of you and let's see what we can do to make all this better and attempt to mend this now while we can.

[bughunter]

yet another wmw long serveing member driven off, like so many before him........
if this is the price for cuddling up to pie then the price is already to high......
wmw has become what it detested the most and what it was originally set up for,to present the truth the  facts to the community, but all it is now is back room deals, shaddy agreements and dodgy dealings with those that would bring winmx down if it doesnt suit there purpose.
oh how the mighty have fallen, stooping so low that there now tripping over........ those that spent thousands of hours helping users when pie fell over repeatidly are now cast aside and replaced with users of dodgy back grounds and who have never helped a single user in there lifes.........
and now we see pie users posting here there standard lies and deciet and allowed to get away with it........
everytime i start winmx i see a patch redited by merlin to get winmx going, but were is merlin now ?, cast aside no longer wanted or welcomed, he alone has helped more users then all the pie maggots put together.......
its just sad to see wmw go this way, so busy stabbing its self in the back it has forgotten who its friends really are and who made what wmw what it is...........
go in peace scythe and dont look back as there is nothing here worth while.......best of luck my friend for the future...............

[Scyre]

There is a difference between "This is Drac's code. He gave it to me"
and
"This is KM's code. I stole it from him."

Even my 4 year old knows the difference there.

And how can you talk of handing me every bit of code at your disposal, when it didn't all belong to you? Can you NOT see that is a big issue to me?

What makes you think I would feel all warm and fuzzy about giving you anything when you hand me something that is stolen?  Am I the next to have something taken and hexed?
The fact of the matter is I made the choice to leave because of the lack of integrity. Say what you will about my integrity, but after seeing posts hidden, seeing the most loyal people getting shit on, and seeing how quickly you will steal to suit your desire, you cannot for a moment pretend that anyone has abused the trust of the community more than yourself.

The strange thing is when I decide not to involve myself further, and leave you with some dignity intact, it isn't good enough. You have to make a spectacle of things, and lie your tail off in a vain attempt to save face.

You picked the wrong person to wage a campaign of dirt against, and I am not by any means a dumb person, nor a pushover.

I am quite willing to stand naked with nothing but the shield of truth before me, and feel absolute that you cannot touch me.

To be perfectly honest, there are only a few choices you have:

1) To try to delete posts and hide the truth
2) To ban me, because you cannot succeed in trashing my good name with me still here
3) Continue your attempt to publicly persecute me and expose more of your egomania
4) Try to get in one more cheap smear and lock the thread
5) Stop trying to make false allegations and claims against me

If you can't see that your deceit has been the reason I chose not to provide you with either a patch nor a ported peercache, then you are a fool. I was given so many wishy washy answers on whether or not source code was gonna be released, that I cannot trust any of your answers on the subject.

And my hesitation was evident quite some time back:
These are quotes from my conversation with Ghost (Only my words, not his)
------
9-7-07:Listen, I have been doing a lot of thinking, and I think I am gonna wait a little before I step too deep in all this mess
Normally I am very sure of things before I do anything and lately there just isn't any being sure of much
Nothing personal, I just need to watch a little before deciding where I should put my efforts
Don't take that the wrong way.. I don't mean as far as teaming with anyone else...
That is not where I am thinking...
I am not really sure who is doing what anymore, and things just aren't as clear as they were...
I took the warning about Marty pretty serious and am hesitant about getting too involved in working with anything he may turn over to someone or decide to take and run with
You can't promise me that this won't become open source can you?
All of the work... The cache, the patch, all of it...
I just need to know where all of this is going, and lately I hear a hundred different versions of what is being planned or in the works....
I am just trying to see the big picture and know where wmw is headed and what we are planning to do
<some omitted responses from QS which were not very absolute on anything(I don't want him claiming I am betraying him lmao)>
----more talk between the 2 of us...not relevant here---
Up until recently I would have never had these questions, to be honest. It has all just really turned upside down and I am questioning everything. It's in my nature
-----more talk of everything going on at that time(who was where and who had been doing what)----
Well, the options I am watching are not options of teams.. but rather options of involving myself deeper here, working independantly on closed source material, or just fading away into the sunset....
sunset looks nice

--------
My point is this:
You can act like this was some big shock and I suddenly went 'bad' but the truth is that you were aware of how I felt and I told you outright I may decide to do this. I told you everything I was thinking.
So go ahead and talk about how disappointed you are and how I suddenly walked away with all your goodies. It is BS and it is evident.
There was no selfishness in my decision. There was concern. And you can try to twist it all day long, but it is still fact.

So much for your 'turncoat' accusations. I never misled you and told you I was not sure about things. The fact that you started showing another face is what made me decide to not stay with the WMW team.

"inuendo and factless based attacks" <---propaganda machine running full speed here
I am showing you the facts. Surely you are not blind or illiterate.

In fact, you mention the moderator section. Well just so people will not be left with lies and they have the chance to see the truth, here is my INITIAL post:
---
"I have given a lot of thought about everything and have decided to go my seperate way.
I like everyone, and nothing personal, but I cannot agree with the way a lot of things have gone lately.
I will miss everyone and wish everyone well.
I just have my own ideas about things and cannot find common ground with many ideas, and the turn that WMW has taken lately has concerned me. I will be honest, perhaps it is because I didn't look hard enough before to notice the nature of a lot of people here.
So, it could be my fault"
"But either way, I feel that WMW is going in a different direction, and one I cannot put my heart into. I had actually finished a functional patch a few weeks ago, but was hesitant to announce it because so many things were changing around here. I decided to wait it out and see what was happening. Too many things disturbed me, and I no longer wish to participate in things here, where a lot of cross talk and scheming has been happening. Some may not be aware. Others are very much aware."
"I have always held myself to the highest standards of integrity, and will not offer anything I know about WMW to anyone outside of the admins of WMW. So in that respect you have no worry. but in the same breath, this seriousness I place on integrity is what shows me I am in the wrong place, and must go. Everyone knows I am completely trustable, which is probably why I hear so much of what goes on lol. But it saddens me because a lot of you are not honest with one another and have too much going on behind each other, and I find that bothersome. Also, a lot of good people have been lost lately, often with no notice."
"I may eventually release some things independently (Closed source of course), but I will have to think a while before such a move. I am not sure what I'm doing at the moment, other than just being a simple MX user for a while. I will swing by and say hi from time to time though."
"Take care everyone, I will remember each of you.

Be Good,
Scyre"
---------------
That is it in it's entirety.

Hope this shows the spirit in which I intended on leaving.

btw: your last comment is kind of funny, ghost. what user's powertrip? Have I made any sort of comment on misusing any kind of power? I certainly didn't think so.

Be Good,
Scyre

(omg another 2 replies! lmao)

[Scyre]

Wise words Nook. I had already written a novel before seeing it though
Wise still.

Bug! Haven't heard from you in a while! You know, in between all those dots (..........) I have seen some real good points in my time here Sometimes you sound like poetry. I think that may be your calling lol. Thanks for the wish of good luck buddy

Be Good,
Scyre

[..Ñøßߥ..]

if this is the price for cuddling up to pie then the price is already to high......

LMAO wb the real Bug, where do you get these odd ideas? I was simply asked for my comments about a new patch, IF a patch is made that blocks, filters and is OPEN SOURCE the real pie team will most likely back it and help promote it, at the same time helping to clear up the mess created by mxpie.info users, this is good news for Winmx and its users, the more of the recognised patch entities supporting the same patch the better right?

I will repeat again for the hard of hearing or slow - Pie have made no demands to Ghost, Mehere, Scyre, Merlin, Winmx world or anyone associated, PIE have no controlling interest with any of these folks, all we do indeed have is some positive and open dialouge. Communication between the groups has been ongoing in 1 form or another since the shutdown, its currently at its most positive in a long long time. It seems to me that those with the technical ability need to do 1 thing, and 1 thing only, get the damn patch and cache software ready, finished and working, then you guys can all squabble over how it should be released, right now, you are fighting over something that does not exisit, its madness.

 

[GhostShip]

It;s clear to anyone reading your last post Scyre how you did not intend to leave on a good footing, merely said something in public and something else in private of an site undermining nature, let me condese your drama for you a little.

"You have KM;s src code so your bad", is this the reason you have made 4 posts stating the same thing ?

So with you story out of the way lets move back to what you didnt say namely why you lied to me and others about helping with either a patch or a cache, you where given src code to hekp with the effort and have delivered zero to anyone, that is the enitre story condensed.

Thinking back I have to admit to myself that at no time have you actually delivered on anything we needed it was just you talked a good fight and we had confidence in you, albeit now semingly misplaced.

My words to you are clear enough for anyone to understand,  I dont even need to point out a thing as anyone reading your posts can see the change in tone when its clear you where not going to be allowed to  badmouth this site and those helping fellow winmx users and walk away on your high moral horse that,s merely a self delusion.

Call me all the names you want Scyre, unlike you I have done my best to give back to the commuity that opened its arms to me many years ago, I am responsible for the archive and the majority of the tutorials as well as helping when I could at mxcontrol and even vladds when it was a friendly place for users, when I find one single thing you have done I shall thank you for it, until then can I suggest you save your energy to keep typing your long drama ridden posts, be 100% certain, I know you for what you are its just a pity I didnt see you where not up to the tasks placed before you.
 

 

[bughunter]

im not commenting on anything to do with you nobby, couldnt careless what you say or do............I was simply asked for my comments about a new patch, IF a patch is made that blocks, filters and is OPEN SOURCE the real pie team will most likely back it and help promote it............whats that statement got to do with anything nobby, as i said couldnt careless what you say or do.........
what i was commenting on was the once close friendships , mutual respect people in winmxworld once had for each other is now destroyed over a stupid patch..........thats the price im commenting on nobby, clearly something you have no understanding of..............

[Scyre]

"You have KM;s src code so your bad"  <---no you seem to be missing the point here. what I am saying is:
"You STOLE KM's source, so your bad"  <---can you find the difference here? Look REALLY hard.

"what you didnt say namely why you lied to me and others about helping"
I have said. Repeatedly. I didn't lie, no matter what you call it.  A lie is when you intentionally deceive someone. I had intended on helping you and others. However, as fate would have it, the way you want to 'do your rightous deeds for the community' is by screwing people over. That is not acceptable to me. Period. Therefore I changed my mind. Seems pretty simple to me.

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of problems with what KM did by dropping the servers, and all that. I think it was a bad move. But that does NOT entitle anyone to steal any of his work, or to try to scheme and take what they want. It entitles someone to write their own material. That is not what I was asked to do. I was asked to port HIS code over to windows and remove all references to it being his. <---can you spot the difference there?

On top of all this, some of the best people in the community have been crapped on, and I cannot agree with that either. Me standing up to you trying to crap on me now, I do in honor of every one of them. And I do it proudly.

You are absolutely correct on one point. "My words to you are clear enough for anyone to understand" As you want to make all your statements claiming you are the only one who cares about the community (while taking things that don't belong to you), and anyone who doesn't fall in line with your beliefs are "lowlifes", "turncoats", "on a moral high horse", etc.
Don't kid yourself. People in the community are not as shallow as you would like to think, and your words speak volumes of insight on what you are all about.

"give back to the commuity that opened its arms to me" <-- how about give back something that is YOURS? You always talk about how much you are doing for the community, but I don't think being a person that has been hording everyone elses work and trying to be the 'WinMX Manager' really fits that bill. People don't need to be managed by you, and you are never gonna be in a position to hold all the cards. Get used to it.

"when I find one single thing you have done" <--- I don't need you to find anything. There are thousands of users that know what I have done for the community and what I stand for. That is plenty for me. Unlike you, I don't need to have my ego stroked 10 times a day.

"tasks placed before you" LMAO this is how you refer to you needing my help to solve some coding issues, and to try to help steal KM's work? Completely comical.

It is funny how condascending you want to sound -->"tasks placed before you"<-- as if I am your employee or kid! lol Now who sounds like they are speaking from high up on a horse?

Very simply: I do not need your approval to write my own tools, utilities, patches, games, database frontends, webpages, poetry, or even my autobiography.

And if you wanted me to 'deliver' on all "tasks placed before me" then you should have been a less scheming individual.
I would have been happy to do it.

You changed your story too many times on what would be the outcome of "tasks placed before me" and I don't like uncertainty when I am asked for my work.
You changed your story too many times on site policy and whether or not hiding people's word were ok 'cause you are Sooo different from V44'.
FFS, you even changed your story on whether or not it was ok for me to leave WMW without being verbally assaulted.

And as everyone can now be witness by the logs I posted, I have shown the proof that I informed you already that I may leave. It is NOT a 'big huge shocking betrayal' just because you wanna give off that appearance, I don't care how mad you are that you didn't get your corrupt way in all this.

How many good people are you gonna run off and attack unjustly before you realize you are WAY out of line lately, and have taken the way of the scoundrel? Or is it just lately? Perhaps you have always been this way and just hid it well enough I didn't realize it.

Be Good,
Scyre

[TheMacDaddy]

Ok Ok enough here now dammit!!!!!!
I challenge anyone one of you whom have posted here to show me where i have disrespected any off you ????
And this is how you treat me and my post on what is supposed to be a vaild reason as to weather you feel the new WinMx fix should be open or closed scr.
I always have and always will treat all here with respect and i expect the same back.....
Hell even nobby can show that even through all the shit that went down i still replyed to his posts with respect.
And that is the key word here   RESPECT.
I dont care for your bullshit he said she said crap.
If you got a problem with anyone on this site or who uses this site no matter what it is and no matter how big or small,then take it to msn or yahoo.
For all i care the Queen and the President of the USA could want to bitch at each other and i would still tell them the same.
You got issues with each other thats just fine and dandy but i dont give a flying fck,all that concerns me here is as to the fact of weather you feel a new patch should be open or closed scr.
Its that simple.....
Give this post and the person whom posted it the respect it deserves.

[DragonRider]

I was there when WinMX went down.
I was there when Vladd announced on his site that we could access the chat side of WinMX using RoboMX and that the V44 help chat was a meeting place.
I followed the discussions in that chat, including KM telling everyone that we were going to have to find another p2p because WinMX was dead and gone.
I spent nearly the whole day and that night going from room to room and p2p websites spreading the word that V44 was the meeting place and that we were trying to get WinMX back up and running.
I remember Polini and Ranma having a discussion about changing the hosts file.
I remember Ranma stating that he was at school and had limited bandwidth and computer access at the time.
So don't try to tell me that it is Pie propaganda. I was there.
I was there when the community came together, there wasn't two patches, there wasn't any patch. I was there when the camps split and the wars began.
I have been there every day since I beta tested 3.31

Peddle your soft soap to someone else because I know what I have witnessed.

I have witnessed KM's treachery all through the whole ordeal. He is no saint. He was no saviour. His poison nushi attacks and Rich Text attacks did more damage to the chat side and WinMX as a whole than the RIAA could have ever done. His hijacking of rooms, ghosting of users, redirects of rooms to "Pet Sex", room crashes, and such foolishness bred distrust among members of the community.

So we should trust his .dll based on his word of HONOR? He has no honor, he has no morals, he has no integrity, and he has no loyalty to the community.

In order to set the record straight, free links to both the WinMX program and PeerGuarian as well as other WinMX tools and add-ons were offered on Vladd's site right along with the pay-per-click sites. Vladd had to shut down once because he couldn't afford to pay his ISP and had added pay-per-click sites as a way to offset his costs and keep his website running. Even at a penny a click I don't see anybody getting wealthy from adding a pay-per-click but I would imagine that the next accusation will be that Vladd is lying in the sun on a beach in Rio, sipping Pina Coladas and laughing at the WinMX users that made him so rich.

Ghost,
I do apologize for my earlier post. I had made a mistake. I had just finished a 16 hour shift at work and was tired when I posted. I got two programs confused in my mind. The program that I had problems uninstalling was PGLyte not the.dll Again I apologize for any confusion that my mistake may have caused.

[..Ñøßߥ..]

Bug, you are suggesting that Pie in some way have a hand in the mess here, that is false and i have corrected you and given you the truth, end of.

Mac this thread is so far off and has been from the word go, as you are attempting to vote on the format of a patch release that seems further and further away from even being written, sorry but thats the facts.

[GhostShip]

*yawn* what a load of horse Scyre, save the silly boy freudian bull for someone who thinks you have a clue, I know different.

Let me condense you again "look my posts are very long folks please listen to me because Quicks who co-founded this site is a big liar and..  and ..."

Basic fact is you have done nothing here, zero, nada, nil, and like others before you, you want a name for yourself by snipering this site and the folks tirelessly working to keep things rolling, forgive me for not wasting as much time as you on those long posts but I have work to do for the community, you just amuse yourself and prove me right once again, your too busy playing drama queen to do anything for anyone, that the reality.




 

[Scyre]

True enough, KM's first response was to tell everyone to find another p2p, that since winmx.com shutdown that it was pretty much over. (that still is a long way from running around with hands in the air screaming the sky is falling)
I don't think he or anyone else really knew how much determination the community had to stay, and after everyone started voicing opinions and trying to figure out ideas, he even decided to help Ranma with a peercache and try to work together on a solution. (He had already developed many tools and had a peercache in the works at that point as I understand it. He would have to clarify that for sure)

But as the nature of the Sabre group went, they were completely mean to people who came in to offer their resources. They picked on them and made them feel like they were pitiful. (This is where I decided they sucked too bad to be around) But they also had the nerve to talk down to KM and tell him to shut up constantly even though they had begged him for help. They wouldn't listen to him when he tried to explain how it worked. That is when he told them to get bent, and he stuck to his words. He told them he could do it by himself if needed. And he certainly did. They never could get a peercache the worked correctly and ended up stealing a copy of his that he had on a server that they got access to. I want to make a note here. One person who I didn't see that sort of mean spiritedness from and I would like to acknowledge for being a nice person was hollow.

I will be the first to admit that KM did some childish things and caused disruption in his time, but when it came to being there for the community, he pulled his weight by himself. He also went on to develop the only form of protection from the mass flooding and no one has matched his creations to this day, nor paved such a road for WinMX survival. He is no saint, you are right. But he is to be highly appreciated for what he did, and respected for his understanding of the MX network, and his abilities, that entire groups cannot even match.
I would rather trust the work of 1 KM than to trust 100 WMW\44's who do not have the ability to do such fine work.

"did more damage to the chat side and WinMX as a whole than the RIAA could have ever done"
That is a very bold statement and I think many would disagree.

His childish pranks and seeing what he could actually do, was just that. Sure it disrupted a lot of things, but that was also a time before anyone really suspected winmx.com would shut down, and I don't think he felt he was doing anything more than playing. But then again, how old was he?
If his actions in the last couple years don't show how much he has grown and taken on one hell of a responsibilty for the community's sake, then I don't know what does.

And what you beta tested is irrelavent, and does not mean your words have more weight, so save it.

All the "we can't trust the dll, there could be something in it!" crap is wearing thin too. Show proof of a problem, or drop it.
Are we to believe that he can release WCS and the whole universe knows there is a bug, but his patch is secretly still harboring a pandora's box of evil after 2 years, and we still need to fear your invented 'hidden issue'?
Simple: Put up or Shut up. If you have proof that the dll contains some hidden issue, then provide it. The entire community would be interested if it were true.

Vladd44 took in money and claimed all these wild expenses that didn't exist. They made money from other people's work, not their own. That is why people do not trust all the pie junk.

Nobby, I agree Pie has nothing to do with the issues here, and is not responsible for the mess that has gone on around this site. However, I don't think that is what bug was saying.
Looks like bug was saying that if open source were released, then the real pie team (not splintered offshoots) would contribute and work with it.
When bug said friendships are getting destryed, he was referring to the current issues of a new patch, not blaming v44's host patch...

And I agree, this thread has gone way off topic, and no one even knows if wmw will release a patch or not yet.
But I will respect what you are asking Mac.
As long as there are no more smear attempts on my name, then I will not continue. This post is just a response to things I feel are inaccurate and I think should be cleared up.

The funny thing is throughout all of these pages, I kept debating inside, if it would be better for open source or not. Much of what has happened has made me feel like open source would stop all the corruption of people taking things, and accusing of hidden evils, and perhaps it would give more opportunity for more input, and fresh ideas.
But at the same time, it has also reinforced the idea to me that there is not enough trust to hand over all the information of how winmx works to the public, and I wonder how much damage will be done within a week of source being published. There is legitimate reason to be concerned about that.

I have concluded that the dangers still outweigh the benefits.

Be Good,
Scyre