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WinMX World :: Forum  |  Discussion  |  Think Tank  |  POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
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Author Topic: POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?  (Read 18424 times)

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Offline TheMacDaddy

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Re: POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
« Reply #60 on: September 13, 2007, 07:18:30 pm »
1777 views    59 posts     43 votes.

I think this says it all....
All the rants and raves here have done nothing in helping move Winmx towards any kind of long term solution.
Now...
Lets all face facts here...
Winmx was closed down 2 years ago.
A hand full of users decieded to make a fix for Winmx (both patches).
Now if anyone here for any reason thinks that the cartel dont know that Winmx is online Winmx is still working Winmx still has users on it.
Then i must say your more stupid then i could of ever thought.
Now.
If anyone out there is under the illusion that the cartel dont know how KM's patch works or how the Pie patch works,then you are also more stupid then i could of ever thought.
Simple fact of the matter is   Open scr or Closed scr it dont make a blind bit of difference.
If the cartel want to take us offline they WILL as and when it suits them.
Yet you all seem to forget that this very site issues a blocklist that makes the cartels life just that little more difficult.
I have a passion for Winmx and all it stands for.
I have a passion for Winmx and all my friends on there to.
If this site helps make the cartels life just that little more diffcult then i will back it 100% all the way.
So i guess in a nut shell...
Closed scr = a split network as in pie patch users and wmw world users.
Open scr = a community patch that all could use and a end to as i like to call it (The Patch Wars)
I want and i believe that winmx needs a all for one patch for Winmx a patch all can use with blocking.
If open scr gives us that then in my eyes theres no question.

Oh and please note i have not attacked anyone single person here in this thread and i stated it.
Please respect my wishes of posting about the topic at hand and give me the respect that i have given to all of you who have posted here.....


Offline Scyre

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Re: POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
« Reply #61 on: September 13, 2007, 07:39:25 pm »
Well Written Mac :)

I just don't see that open source would be a united thing. I know a lot of people have posted that it would, but in reality, it doesn't seem that likely to me.

I think the source would be bastardized into a lot of malicious installers and we would have more splintering than ever.

We have as a prime example, the pie (.info I believe it is) that swear that they will not support a blocking patch. That in itself is a splintering right off. Also, there are many who claim .dlls are unsafe, not secure, etc, that will not embrace a dll whether it blocks or not...

The point is I just don't believe that open source is the golden answer to all the fighting and differences in opinions that the community has been dealing with.

It may unite some, but it is already splintering many others and it is just an idea atm, not even an actual item yet.

I believe 100% that there will still be seperate groups and fights about everything, same as always, but it will be more dangerous because now the source would be out there along with any exploits and variations amongst many MORE sites and groups.

btw: Mac I want to say that I also believe you are completely correct about the cartel already having any amount of information that could be obtained on patches. This being said, it is the USERS I really see as the ones to worry about with open source.

Hope this helps!

Best Regards, and Be Good!
Scyre
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Offline ñòóKýçrÕôK

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Re: POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
« Reply #62 on: September 14, 2007, 12:39:23 am »
Let me say first that I apologise for not even bothering to look at where the pole stands before I posted. Why? Because I don't care personally where the pole stands. As long as WinMX stays up and running I'm cool with it. Since the majority say no then we'll just change what I said to show for those who may be having trouble understanding the point of my post. *It has been voted on and it has been shown that pretty much that most the readers of this forum that care enough to post believe that it should NOT be open source.* Are we good now fellas?

Scyre has a very good point. No matter the decision there will still be a splinter in the fact that Sabre's group refuse blocking. That being said I'm curious as to can there be an "on" "off" switch in it or a "pro-block" or "anti-block" install option as to afford a way to satisfy everyone? Is there a specific reason that group is anti-block? I do understand that that kind of option would defeat the purpose of everything everyone has gone through to try and get people to blocking but let's face it. If someone truely doesn't want it then no amount of bitching and complaining is going to change that. At least if the "on/off" "pro/anti" choices are there then aren't we at least moving a step closer? And also as long as the option IS there then there's always a chance that an "anti-block" user might say "Why not check this out?" That's one step closer. That my friends is moving foward. And isn't that what this is all about?
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Offline DragonRider

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Re: POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
« Reply #63 on: September 14, 2007, 05:12:10 am »
After reading all of the above posts I have revised my thinking on this subject a little. Even though I still think that open scource is the better choice I also think that a patch is like a government. An open scource patch where everyone can see what the patch contains is like a democracy where the people control the government. A closed scource patch is like a dictatorship where 1 person or a chosen few control the people. Whether a patch is open scource or closed makes little difference to our real enemies. I speak of the enemies of all p2p users, not just in WinMX but in all p2p programs. Those enemies have the money and rescources to take a closed scource patch, decompile it, reverse engineer it, add whatever they wish to it (such as harmful code that would cause crashes, etc.), and flood it back into the network either through bogus sites or simply infecting the network by sharing the infected file and having users spread it for them. We have already seen them do this by spreading infected .mp3 files and .mov files that contain .exe files (don't you hate it when you hit "play" for a .mov and are suddenly flooded by a pornado?). Blocking flooders is almost like an anti-virus program in that every day there is a new virus or malicious code popping up somewhere in the world and you have to spend every day finding a cure for that days particular strain of virus. It's a never ending battle, there is not now or will there ever be the perfect patch. There never will be a time when all of the various factions of the WinMX Community will agree on one patch, but if we can find some common ground, if we can find a way to block flooders and eliminate fake files as we become aware of them, then we will be making progress. At this time there are only 2 patches available to the users. I am not saying that one patch is better than the other but I do believe that because that there are two seperate patches it has helped to ensure the survival of the network. Let's step back and look at the big picture and not put all our eggs in one basket just yet. Our enemies have used every underhanded tactic in the book from obtaining "Cease and Desist Orders" to buying the favor of politicians in order to try to shut us down. We are a strong community, we can survive if we can unite. "A house divided against itself cannot stand" - Abraham Lincoln
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Offline DragonRider

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Re: POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
« Reply #64 on: September 15, 2007, 06:36:57 pm »
Here is something to think about:

Quote from: IBM DeveloperWorks
The security of knowing it's open source

What, then, about the security of open source software? Open source software, by definition, is any program or application that is freely distributed, non-platform specific -- and in which the programming code is open and visible. All else being equal, isn't a closed program more secure than an open one?

"Not just no, but h--- no," says open source advocate and author of The New Hacker's Dictionary and "The Cathedral and the Bazaar", Eric S. Raymond. "Closed source leads not to true security but to a false sense of security," says Raymond. "You don't know what's in there, you can't verify it, you can't check the assumptions or honesty of the people who wrote it."

In cryptography circles, there is a saying: The security of an algorithm should not depend on its secrecy. This maxim can be especially well-applied to open source software.

"The apparent paradox that openness about your methods leads to better security is not unique to computer software -- military and diplomatic cryptographers have known for a century that it is folly to depend on the secrecy of your encoding method rather than the secrecy of your keys," says Raymond.

According to Raymond and fellow open source supporters, open source is the only real option for secure operating systems. For one thing, closed source applications and operating systems can't be examined and verified for secure coding. A revelation of previously secret code almost always leads to the discovery of additional flaws and security holes. In addition, closed proprietary code makes it difficult to distribute trustworthy fixes when a hole or mistake is revealed.

Just take the April 2000 event that had webmasters and systems administrators shaking in their shoes. After four years it was discovered that Microsoft programmers had inserted a back door in their popular FrontPage Web server software. It was the very fact that the software code was "concealed" in opaque binary form that kept this security breach unknown to the public for so long.

Since open source software guarantees the "right to read, redistribute, modify, and use the software freely," a secret back door would be highly unlikely to escape detection. Most experts believe that the odds of a such a back door slipping in are nil. After all, the logic goes, who would risk his or her reputation by putting a back door in source that is openly available for others to discover?

"Anybody who trusts their security to closed-source software is begging to have a back door slipped on to their system," says Raymond, who is also president of the Open Source Initiative. "Apache has never had an exploit like this, and never will. Nor will Linux, or the BIND library, or Perl, or any of the other open source core software available."

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-oss.html

The above was written by professional coders and programmers who believe that open scource is more secure than closed scource applications and programs.
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Offline ]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.

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Re: POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
« Reply #65 on: September 16, 2007, 08:12:55 am »
the above is a 6 year old article

About the author
Natalie Walker Whitlock is a freelance writer and the owner of Casaflora Communications,

Casaflora Communications  Line of Business : Patent Owner/Lessor

Patent owners and lessors = This classification includes establishments primarily engaged in owning or leasing franchises, patents, and copyrights that they in turn license others to use.

just the person you need for when its  open source  and ppl change it then use her to licence it so they can sell it on
no wonder she puts up such a argument for open source (gotta be great for business)

You can pull thousands of arguments off the net for and against open source all can be made to sound credible or not depending on your standpoint ...millions of ppl/developers/universitys/governments etc have been doing so since the net began & will continue to do so for a long time to come i suspect
 
In the case of winmx only time will tell ..... lets hope that whatever desicion is made that time will be longer rather than shorter
one thing for sure is that if a line is not drawn under this debate  it could potentialy become the longest thread in history  :wink:
perhaps agree to dissagree and move on
      

Offline DragonRider

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Re: POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
« Reply #66 on: September 16, 2007, 02:39:49 pm »
The article may be 6 years old but the basic principles are as old as mankind. Openess=freedom, freedom=equality. With an open scource application nobody is in "control", everyone has control. Are you implying that a closed scource patch couldn't be licensed if those in control decided to license it and then charge the users for using it? The longest thread in history, I doubt that, but I can say that discussion is good, that means that everybody is looking at the problem because the problem is out in the open, it's not just being discussed by a few behind closed doors.
A recent study shows that marriage is the main cause of divorce in the US.

Offline chuck

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Re: POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
« Reply #67 on: September 16, 2007, 05:01:56 pm »
This open ,closed thing is really getting old and funny. What are you going to do stop useing winmx if its open? If its closede? thats what i thought you will still use winmx so there is a need for both so lets get on with it make a patch and stop all this he said she said childish bs.
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Offline bu44er

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Re: POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
« Reply #68 on: September 17, 2007, 08:44:58 am »
I agree chuck i was one of those people who was doing a fair bit of moaning about Open Source but after some consideration i thought "well i would still use WinMx no matter what". I think we need to agree on one thing but think about it first so the people making the core patch can crack on so to speak.
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Offline Scyre

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Re: POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
« Reply #69 on: September 18, 2007, 01:42:42 pm »
I would like to point out that the recent release of all the MediaDefender docs shows they are not as brilliant as everyone assumes.

(Not for the fact that they had a leak, but some of the info leaked shows their lack of technical knowledge)

I believe that when we release the new patch if it is open source, it will certainly give them MUCH more oportunity to do damage to the WPN and we should seriously consider this.

Most people do not really care what is in a patch as long as it works and they know it is from reliable source that will not screw them around.

Hope this helps, and be good!
Scyre
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Offline reef

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Re: POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
« Reply #70 on: September 18, 2007, 09:46:20 pm »
I totally agree...their deep pockets and ability to reverse engineer any patch hasn't worked 2 well
for them up to this point.Just passing the source over to them now could be disastrous

Offline chuck

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Re: POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
« Reply #71 on: September 20, 2007, 03:53:19 am »
You seem to think MediaDefender wants to close P2P programs down think about it why would they? They dont get paid if they are no P2P programs they get paid for flooding fake files and makeing life a bitch for us users. Even if they had the code for all p2p programs i dont see them useing it to try to close them ,They would have to find a new job and we all can see they dont want to work a real job. Look there are many open source P2P programs being used one is frostwire and you dont see them trying to close them all MediaDefender is paid for is being a deterrent.They have the code for many P2p programs and they are doing no more to them than they are doing to the p2p programs they dont have the code too. the only part of the patch that should be garded is the blocking that is all i see they are haveing a time with thats why they say the pieinfo patch is still a go they dont block.
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Offline MinersLantern

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Re: POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
« Reply #72 on: September 22, 2007, 03:31:47 am »
I wonder what MediaDefender would do in this situation?
Their now open source, and I don't think they are delighted by that fact.
Closed source it, if you must filter, the population of the planet doesn't need to know how.
Besides, if you wish to OS it later you can. (depending on if MD gets crushed or not due to the past few days events...)
You cannot do it OS and then change your mind later.

Offline Me Here

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Re: POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
« Reply #73 on: September 24, 2007, 12:48:51 am »
Just so there are no misconceptions here..

For the past year and a half i'll say without diggin through my logs of info.. Macrovision and MediaDefender have been in operation on this network.  Prior to that it has been solely Macrovision as Media Defender was on the network prior to Front Code leaving but also shut down when FrontCode did.

Macrovision has more then enough resources, the name, the software already designed (and not open sourced) to do what needs done flooding wise here.  I just dont want anyone thinking that we have no floodding atm because I assure you we certainly do.. all under complete control of course if your a dll user..   :wink:

Offline Max™

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Re: POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
« Reply #74 on: September 24, 2007, 03:39:39 pm »
i have been thinking and looking at if we have open or closed patch,

closed = a few people know how to work with it,

open = anyone can mess with it including not only flooders but people that want to add bits in so it wont connect until they extort money out of you, then there's no guarantee it will connect once they have your money.



Try Connecting, the attacks may let you  https://patch.winmxconex.com/

Offline DragonRider

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Re: POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
« Reply #75 on: September 26, 2007, 02:47:31 am »
closed=only a few people know how to work with it...and then we as a community are at the mercy of those few people. We have to just trust that our IP's and search terms won't be plastered all over some website for the RIAA or any other pirate hunter to make use of the first time somebody feels that they have not received the tribute they think they deserve.

open=anyone can mess with it...and everybody can see who messed with it and how...including people who can fix the patch so it works correctly...including people that can make improvements on the patch...including people that can add plug-ins to improve the patch...and last but not least making it a patch that is part of the community because everyone who wants to and has the skill can have a part in making the patch better as time goes by. Why?..because then it is a patch that is developed BY THE COMMUNITY !!! What a novel idea...Communism at it's finest. The patch wouldn't belong to the chosen few...it would belong to the community.

closed=closed...until those who are in control of the patch and by way of the patch, the community, decide to share the power that they hold over the community. That will probably happen about one day after hell freezes over...and anyone who believes that "absolute power doesn't corrupt absolutely " probably rides the short bus anyway. You figure it out.
A recent study shows that marriage is the main cause of divorce in the US.

Offline Scyre

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Re: POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
« Reply #76 on: September 27, 2007, 09:59:11 pm »
All the cliches in the world are not gonna change the facts.

Fact is, you talk of 'being at the mercy of the few who have the source"... What mercy? Is anyone making you suffer in some kind of way? A select few people are working hard to keep everything running. Thanks is in order.

As for "including people who can fix the patch so it works correctly...including people that can make improvements on the patch" <---WHAT?!

If there are so many qualified people out their who are such experts on the matter, then why have they not written a patch of their own?
Answer: because there are not ALL THESE EXPERTS waiting around for the DUMMYS WHO HAVE THE SOURCE to give it to them SO THEY CAN CORRECT IT.
Personally, I think that very notion qualifies YOU to ride the short bus.

All this "Absolute power corrupting" and "power they hold over the community" crap is getting old.
No one is forcing you to use winmx, nor forcing what you download or what channels you chat in.
You are being completely ridiculous, and trying to scaremonger people into believing "The patch must be gotten from the devil!"

If you are so unhappy with someone making something, then go collect all those experts you seem to know about and make a new patch. FFS you guys are using MY idea from 2 years ago now! And in 2 years I have never seen so much as 1 disclaimer giving any credit for my idea of the hosts quickfix, nor any mention of thanks. So I am sure that all of you PIE fanatics would not have any appreciation for anything else either. It would be another item to use in a hundred more attempts to charge money, and profit off of the community. So much for the 'it's all for the community' speech. :(

It is this kind of Crap Propaganda that convinces me that if the source got out, people like you would abuse it and twist it to something just as perverse as your scaremonger tactic above.

In 2 years you have never had any thanks for the fact WMW and WMG have not only developed a key tool in fighting the flooding of the cartel, but have run the servers that have kept the entire community afloat! And to have the nerve to talk about how corrupt the ones with the source are!

I will say this now, and I don't care how many ripples it makes in the community. This must be said for all to read.

PIE has done exactly shit for the community. Period.

Taking everyone else's ideas and trying to market and make money. MiniMicrosoft. Never once have you guys developed anything for the community.
Peercaches were developed by KM, and the ones you guys first got were from KM's help, and then you guys stole copies of his working caches.
You still try to market and profit off of a hosts file idea that I came up with in a pinch just to keep the network going til something could be done. But what happened? You guys took MY honest idea and bastardized it into something to try to sell. And it isn't even a GOOD idea! It was just a quick help in a time of need!

So what has PIE done exactly? In all this time? Talk crap about the only ones who made it possible for WinMX to continue?

All the way up til the point that KM walks away, and then it is like a feeding frenzy of bloodthirsty sharks, thinking there is something wounded that you can easily go after. You all suddenly start showing up "Oh, we have always agreed with you guys...give us the source"  "We want to work WITH you now..give us the source"   "Look at this nice gold picture frame we have put around this picture of a turd... Isn't it just lovely?"

No. It isn't lovely. No matter what you package it in, it is still a shitty picture.

Enough of the BS. Enough of the hands held out waiting for other people's work.

I am leaving For a while, and am officially stopping all work I have been doing on peercaches, patches, and other tools until all the sharks swim away, and I am satisfied that none of my work or anything I work on with others will be released in source form or any way that I am not ok with.

I may go to work on things independantly and release closed source material, but I am not sure atm.

Be Good
Scyre
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Offline ]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.

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Re: POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
« Reply #77 on: September 27, 2007, 10:21:37 pm »
that about clears  things up  for everyone ...well said Scyre ...please keep up the good work even if it means being independant its much appreciated by a lot of ppl 
      

Offline GhostShip

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Re: POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
« Reply #78 on: September 27, 2007, 10:30:21 pm »
I,m very very disappointed with you Scyre, you obtained code from the group for checking through to help with a patch problem, not only have you not done so your now pulling a KM and being selfish by leaving without telling anyone.

Why do ppl offer to help then walk away after they have gotten something for nothing.




Offline Scyre

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Re: POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
« Reply #79 on: September 27, 2007, 10:52:42 pm »
Read the moderator board. Answers are there.

No need to be disappointed. There is more in play than what is here, as you will read.
I just simply have had enough. If anyone can be disappointed in that, then they haven't had enough lol.

As for getting something for nothing, not the case. I offered a lot of guidance in how to get through some of the issues. (BTW: the one you have on the patch now, will be just fine :) the rest of the way will be easier for thast individual)

Please don't make an attempt to soil my name, as many in the community know better. I will not offer anything I have 'gained' from you to anyone else. My integrity is well known.

As for pulling a 'KM', I am not sure exactly what that is. lol

Me leaving is not being selfish. It is my right, and I feel that I need to. I have given you guys plenty of credit (as the above post clearly shows), and don't see why you need to suddenly be hostile towards me.

People have a right to decide when they are through, and this sort of possessiveness regarding people is one of the reasons I have made the decision.

Please allow me to leave on a good note, and do not turn this sour. That is not my intention and I deserve more than that from you.

I will not be working on anything that has originated from WMW if that is your concern. I have had some things in the works for some time, and anything I release (IF I release) will be based on work already in the public domain, along with some assistance I got from KM a few times (months ago) and some of the work others(outside of WMW) have freely offered me.

Anything I release would have the appropriate credit given to anyone who contributed. That is just simply who I am. I respect other's work.

But... All of this is irrelivant now at any rate. I have no plans of releasing anything anytime soon, and just want a break from it all.

Hate me if you like, but there is no need.

I simply need to go.

Be Good,
Scyre
A cat will almost always blink when hit with a hammer.

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