POLL: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?

[GhostShip]

I,m not wishing to soil your name Scyre, you are one of our most trusted folks, I just stating how matters looked to me after reading what you just posted, but I suppose I let my disappointment spill over a little, so I make an apology to you now for jumping the gun.

When and if you return you,ll still be welcome here, but please no more suprises, take care.


During the typing of this post I spoke to Scyre on IM and he explained his reasons to me personally and I agree he should prioritize his other matters, I hope that cleans this matter up for those reading.

[chuck]

 Scyre many people includeing mfself do respect you.So take what im about to say and respect it as well.Your rant ladened with anger has not instilled confidence in a closed source patch i hope you were not trying too.

 Its outburst like this that has made me come to the conclusion a open source patch would be the better way to go. If we put our faith in one two or three people to keep up a patch we will allways have the posibility of one ore two going off the deep end for what ever reason and then we will be right back here as we are now needing a patch.Yes IT is your right as is anyones right to walk away at any time for any reason from winmx or working on a patch for winmx, if anyone disagree's they are selfish.

 No one wants to contenue with all the fighting or ill fealings that we have had for so many years now. And im sure we dont want or need any ass makeing any more trouble on the Wpn,So one side of me says keep the source closed but its actions and fits for what ever reason that your going threw right now that worries me and makes me see the need for a open source for others to build on so there will be no more users left in the cold when someone just decides (For what ever reason.It dosent matter gone is gone)to leave and not have any thing to fall back on for a patch.We all agree that the host file is not the way to go.

 Its actions or should i say out burst like you post after dragon riders that put fear in to many people they see how dependent we are on so few to keep a working patch if the source is closed.

 Understand im not trying to anger you or disrespect you in any way.Just trying to point out to you why so many see a need for a open source.

Have a nice day.

[Mick832]

Read the moderator board. Answers are there.

Be Good,
Scyre

So there is a moderator board where even more arguments between moderators are posted.

[GhostShip]

Moderators boards are where we decide democratically whats going to happen with certain threads topics or events Mick, its been mentioned before what its for and is no secret to most regulars, we do all after all like to feel no single person can act against the community, and having a board where we can all speak frankly that's not in the public domain serves that purpose.

After reading the moderators board I feel its only fair to tell you all of a salient fact Scyre has posted, he now claims he had written a patch some weeks ago but decided KM style to keep it to himself, I find this morally wrong and strange he did so after obtaining a near complete patch src from ourselves, I go with my initial post in condemning selfishness of this type.

Anyone who offers to help on a project and receives the code they asked to look over then declares they have completed a duplicate project all by themselves should not claim they are a pillar of integrity, like it or not if the shoe fits ...

I abhor selfishness of this type.

[Mick832]

You are entitled to have a moderators board, and it is a necessary part of a forum, much the same as admin chat in WinMX.

The comment was more aimed at the unprofessional appearance when arguments move out into the public area.

People will loose faith in a site where admin and moderators argue out in the open.   The poll is about a closed or open source patch, and I supported a semi-closed patch where it is held in the hands of a few trusted people.

Now the "trusted people" are openly arguing, even though the differences are later fixed in a moderators board or private IM.

It does not look good for the site.

[chuck]

 Ghost after reading your laST post i have lost respect for Scyre. Its actions like this that shows if the source is closed  , we can and from the way things have gone , in time will have winmx held for ransom again.

 Im worried that if all this keeps going on there will be no big need for a patch. Ive heard people say winmx is doing fine look at how many chat rooms are up, well take away all the multable room posting , rooms with 3 or less people in them and the rooms stateing 50 or more in them they are a few ive seen that do have but more are just bumping the room count to look full , we are loseing people.

 The sad thing is its not the R**A or the MP** doing it its us doing it to ourselves with , this one or that one wanting to dictate how who and when we can use winmx.

 Then all the fighting over open source or closed , and the same people that scream it should be closed are the first to say if it isnt my way ill not be a part of it. That is control and they want the control i dont get it at all.Ill help winmx but its got to be my way or ill just walk away.

  Lets just face it there will be some working on a closed source patch ( and thats good), and there will be some that work on a open source patch and thats great.all this voting has done is shown us who are more likely to want to control mx not get us any closer to a working patch.

 I think this thread needs to be locked all its doing is makeing more people that read it worry and some to even start looking for another P2P to take the place of winmx. And thats not needed A new patch will be made and winmx will go on free for all.

[DragonRider]

I'm still curious as to who made all the money that Pie was supposed to have made off the Hosts file patch? I know that I have never made a dime off of WinMX, ever. The only reason that I chose to associate myself with Pie was because it's the one team where KM wasn't. I never trusted KM or anything that he had anything to do with. Anyone who has been around MX for years and knows me knows why. I hosted rooms and had friends who were destroyed by KM's "poison nushi" and other little toys that he not only used himself, but made readily available to every script kiddie that came down the pike. I very rarely even enter the chat rooms anymore because of the damage done by KM and by the constant wars being fought by the various camps. The fun and the comradery is gone from the chat side. For that I thank KM and those responsible. Vladd44.com was destroyed by KM and his followers, effectively silencing a website that offered an alternative viewpoint to WMW. I guess it becomes easier to express your viewpoint when there is no opposing site to offer debate. If there is nobody to tell you when you are wrong then obviously you must always be right. I am sure that eventually someone will find a way to profit from WinMX (maybe KM already has), but I hardly believe that it will be Pie, as everyone knows that all Pie has is an outdated Hosts file patch that they had to steal from Scyre because they were too computer illiterate to create anything on their own . It seems funny though that as I think back to the day that Frontcode met it's untimely demise, there were many people working on the hosts file patch to get WinMX up and running again temporarily until a working patch could be developed. I don't remember a single knight in shining armor at that time, I remember the work of the community. Everyone did as little or as much as they could in order to keep WinMX running. Calling Pie minimicrosoft is amusing, last I heard Microsoft was closed scource. BTW Scyre, thank you for all that you have done for WinMX and I apologize if my expressing my opinion as to whether the patch should be open or closed has upset you. I never questioned your integrity, but can you gaurantee that a closed scource patch wouldn't be used against the community by others at some future date? The RIAA will stop at nothing to destroy all p2p communities. I don't think that they would overlook something as simple as planting a mole among the "trusted few" who hold the scource. Enjoy your time off, Scyre, and maybe a few extra dollars in your pocket?

[Scyre]

Wow it is funny how something can quickly be turned around when someone has an urge to Tarnish someone's image.

Ok, then we shall NOT keep this in the moderator section. Suits me fine, and I thought that we had an agreement there Ghost... But that is fine.

Ok, here it goes: I have decided to leave wmw for the resons of the open source debate as well as the really bad turn wmw has made lately.
There has been a lot of side scheming amongst soem of the wmw staff, and I disapprove.
There has also been a lot of deception, and again I disapprove.
As for a patch, yes. Some weeks ago, BEFORE I rcv'd the rough work of the current project wmw has, I had finished my own version and considered announcing it to wmw, but there was so much going on that I found questionable, I decided to sit on it and see how things were going.
After seeing that a lot of LONG time supporters of wmw were starting to get the shaft, I decided I would not offer it.
However, Someone programming a patch for wmw needed a few pointers and I made suggestions to get them in the right area, hoping that would be all the involvment I would need from there out.

"Finding it morally wrong" sounds funny, considering I have also written several games I never released to the public, as well as utilities, and even a simple chat program within the last few years.
Selfish, no. My own decision? Certainly.
As for "being handed a near complete patch" That is horsecrap. I was sent some code (after the completion of my own project) to look through and made some suggestions, but it is not near completed. There is still quite a bit left to do in it, but it should be easy from where they are at now. just time consuming.

I could care less if somone wants to question my integrity. My history speaks for itself. However, the issue of integrity within wmw is what has finally pushed me to the point of leaving wmw.

In my opinion, there is no integrity left in the decision making that has been taking place in the last few weeks, and I waited it out to see if it was a passing thing. Maybe I didn't have all my facts straight. But, sadly, I was correct. Lies and theft have been at the very top of it, and I want no part of it.

If someone cannot accept me leaving without again trying to attack MY image, then I will speak the truth and settle it.

Ghost has stolen a copy of the source to KM's linux based peercache, and that is the project he wanted me to work on. I decided I really didn't wanna assist in stealing KM's work, so I have given several "Yeah it is gonna be harder than I thought" kind of responses, and have just ignored the push from him and Mecca to hurry up on it.

I have also been witness to post hiding lately that is not inline with the 'We don't hide things here' image that so many people have claimed.

Sure, Ghost, you trusted me. And I never did anything to betray that trust. I was willing to walk away with things in a good standing and just not involve myself in the things that have been really disturbing me lately. But if you wanna try to attack someone for having no interest in the crap politics that this site and and the room have been subjected to lately, then I have no problem with attacking you with the complete unaltered truth.

KM didn't want his patch offered on here anymore. You spoke as if you respected that. But why would you have hexed his patch, and then stolen a copy of the source to his peer cache? That is NOT respecting his wishes.

But again, you launched a fast smear campaign against him as soon as he was done, and now I have to question all that you claim about him. After all, you are very quick to start making unfounded and inaccurate claims about me, simply because I don't want 'IN' on all the shady dealings.

Do you remember a couple weeks ago when you offered me Merlin's old position, and I turned it down? That is exactly why. I lost faith in your direction, and in your motives. I thought "Maybe it will all go back to normal and I will feel confident in all this again, and that they are doing the right thing" but instead, you started crapping on people who had worked hard for a LONG time to support WMW, banning some, just to be on a fast track to getting all the eggs in your basket.

And although you kept trying to reassure me that you knew what pie was up to and wouldn't give them any source code, you kept publically saying you were gonna work with them and release open source...  So I must conclude, you were lying to me to get me to bring you the patch you wanted, just so you could do whatever you wanted DESPITE your claims to me.

And when I asked about the rumor that you gave some of the source code over to some italian developers you say "ahh it was nothing, they already had almost everything" and I am supposed to be comforted? When was this "democratic" vote taken on whether or not to release something like that?
I never saw it in the "democratic moderator section"... Instead I hear about it AFTER the fact...

There certainly IS reason to call integrity into question here lately, but none of it to do with me. I have maintained my belief from day one, that a patch needs to be developed to keep people going, and it should filter fakes, and block cartel connections. But it should be for the benefit of the community, and be 100% honest and good work.  I have also never changed my belief on it being closed source, to prevent the tampering by people who are up to no good. Had I seen more honor in the ranks of WMW you would have that patch now.
I am VERY glad I hesitated to announce it, especially seeing how quickly you have turned on me simply for wanting to walk away from it for a while.

The funny thing is you act like I have somehow broken the trust of the community. I have sabotaged nothing. I have taken nothing away from the community. I have merely taken leave of some unacceptable behavior, and I dare you to attempt to make me out to be the bad guy here.

No one else with an ounce of integrity would have done anything different.

Be Good,
Scyre

P.S. to chuck: I understand how you feel about this supporting the position of open source, and I didn't take it as disrespect. You stated your opinions quite well. I am sorry that in the next post you had been poisoned with ghost's smear campaign into changing your amount of respect. But I don't hold it against you. You only know what is available to know, and I can't fault you for that. Just know that you had it right the first time.

P.S. to DragonRider: No I cannot guarantee that a closed source patch will not be used against the community at some future date. But I can guarantee that an open source patch would. MediaDefender's leaked code shows that to be true. As for KM destroying V44, that is a joke. V44 destryed themselves with the same sort of policies that are becoming common amongst WMW. Also, it was not your opinion of open vs closed source that upset me, it was the claims that you have experts standing by waiting to fix something if only you are given everything. And if you are implying that I have been a mole and making money, that is the most laughable thing you have ever said. I guess I must have been a sleeper cel for YEARS, even before the cartel invaded winmx, or before it ever shut down, right? And my attempts to keep the cartel from gaining any more info on the MX network is because they employ me? LMFAO Was it not YOUR group that has allowed them onto this network to be free to harvest IPs and flood the network for the last couple years, while the whole time I have been working to UNconvince users of the crap you guys have been telling them? Your opinion means little. It is because of the damage you guys have continued to do to the MX network that MX has gone downhill like it has. And the fact that WMW is willing to align themselves with the same ones who facilitated these floods that I no longer have faith in WMW.

[chuck]

cyre I stand corected.I do apologize.

HMM i hate it when you just dont know who to trust.

 Ive lost so many friends on mx this last few years. I may just start looking for another P2P and check  back in a few months and see if mx is still here and if people are still at each other.

 Sad Day. I do have to agree with Scyre about some of the actions ive see happen on this forum the last few months reminding me of another forum that did kill its self i hope that does not happen here. I think i may take some time off winmx and this forum to let things sort themselves out and see if there is a reason to even worry about a patch.

[GhostShip]

Dont hold back Scyre if you have any allegations to make, make them, you made a post in the moderators section alluding to all sorts of things and a more accusation full one here, both tell me the same story, your selfish and decided to put your friendship with KM above everyone else, I have known about your duplicity for over a week now from when I spoke to KM on the phone and he mentioned how I was "begging ppl for a patch" when in reality only you alone where asked to help on speeding things up.

Its nice for you to confirm you sat idle when you now claim to have had a patch solution that was urgently required to stop to KM,s WCS flooding, another feather in your cap eh ?
And now you walk away making yet more accusations, friends like you are not friends.

I have no further time for you or others abusing both the site or our trust in many sensitive projects that are undertaken for the benefit of all winmx users, I may be many things but selfish is not one of them.

The matter rests simply like this, you took and you left, and now you want to take the moral high ground, some things are just beyond comedy.


Chuck its seems maybe you have the right idea, I really dont know how things can go on much longer when we have folks like KM attacking the network for 6 weeks and those who claimed to want to help users sitting on relevant solutions, that will be what I remember Scyre for, nothing more.

It seems hosting a debate over open versus closed source was too near to the wind for many who decided they like free speech on one hand but want power on the other by acting undemocraticly, both KM and Scyre feel their view is more important than any mere "User" and have decided to both act in the same selfish manner, surely its plain one goes hand in hand with the other, holding the community to ransom because they can is despicable.

[Scyre]

LMAO
Funny, the one thing I did mention in the moderators section is:
"It is for the reason of the community before myself I decided to not announce what I had created. If I cannot have faith in what goes on here, then I don't want to entrust my work for the community here. That simple.
I gave it time to see if it was just a passing thing, and maybe you guys were just a little put off by what had happened with KM, but that wasn't the case. The more I knew, the less tasteful all of this was. I have not been in league with anyone else and have not discussed any of this with anyone. this is all new to everyone (even myself lmao)
So not one bullshit scream of 'He is going to PIE' or 'He is going with KM' because that would be false.
I had no desire to say much of anything until you started trying to put my image to ruin in public, and that was a really shitty thing to do, if not also miscalculated.
"
And sure enough the first thing you try to do is accuse me of conspiring with KM. LMAO
Perhaps it is someone else you have been begging that has talked with KM.  The only thing KM and I have spoke about since he left is when I alerted him that the Media Defender source was released, and he already knew about it.
And if there was this "duplicity that you already knew about for weeks" then why would you say you are suddenly so disappointed, and act like there is some kind of shock?

Doesn't make sense. And I am sure anyone reading will pick up on that.

As I also told you in the moserator section, if you are gonna attack my character and try to blaken my name, I will have no choice but the speak the truth to show that what you claim is false.

Again, you have made the wrong move. You see, the fact that I now have the copy of KM's source to the linux peer cache proves my claim. Along with the logs of conversations where you told me that is where it came from. Stolen.

Yeah...tons of integrity there. And you wanna bitch that I am walking away from that? Whine like a baby as far as I care. And make sure you cry out loudly how unfair it is that I won't help you to steal KM's work, and how that makes me selfish and untrustable.

And the phrase "taking the moral high ground" is a bit old coming from you, where that has been your number one accusation when someone disagrees with your methods. I will tell you now, there are still people in the world WITH morals, and I could give a rat's behind if you accept it or not.

And feel free to tell as to how I am holding anyone ransom?
You mean the kinda ransom like "Either participate in my theft and deception, or I will attempt to trash your image" kind of ransom?

Sling as much mud as you like. And twist things as much as you like.
When you are finished, you will find the mud lands in YOUR lawn, not mine, and you will discover that the truth doesn't bend so easily.

Be Good,
Scyre

[ñòóKýçrÕôK]

If it looks wrong, feels wrong, or if you even have a doubt as to whether something is wrong or right then most likely it is wrong in every sence of the word. Wrong is easy to figure out. Right is much harder. What is right for one person will almost always seem not right for another. No matter what it's about. What is right is only deemed "right" because a majority of people agree that to them it is right. Sometimes the right thing is not always the right thing to do regardless of the reasons you use to justify it.

Scyre I am so very sorry that you have decided to leave the WMW group but I feel if you think it is right for you then it is something that you must do. I wish that I could change your mind. I see no harm or foul in the fact that you kept your patch to yourself but I must say it would have been nice I think to try it. As for keeping it a secret, that I can also understand. Maybe not the reasons why but that is because I know that I don't know everything that is going on that I can not or am not allowed to see. Artists paint some of their most beautiful works that the public never knows existed and never will. Auto makers build cars that never make it to mass production or an assembly line. There is no harm that you have decided to keep it to yourself. KM himself has been deffended more than once for keeping his source to most of his work to himself. So I personally see no harm in it nor do I think anyone else should.

Quicks. I know that I do not know all that has been said or shared privately between you and Scyre and quite honestly I do not want to know. I think this is not the place or the time to publicly accuse Scyre of any wrong doing for taking the path he has taken. It is a choice he has made because he feels it is right for him. As for openness and honesty I will only ask how long were you and others working on this new patch before it came out that you were. Now let me say that I see no harm in that either, but in every sence, keeping it secret was only wrong by the same standards as placed your opinion of Scyre being wrong. So I believe personally to say that he is wrong is to also admit your own guilt if there is any to be had here.

Dragonrider let me just say this once and be done. Vladd's forum's undoing was due to Vladd and his lack of action to his own admins who were allowed to attack anyone who disagreed with their opinions. How long would I last right now if I were to go into a PIE help room and spout the praises of the dll patch? How quickly did you and others turn on me once I revealed I had gone to the dll patch and attempted to deffend my actions and those of KM, Quicks, Me_Here, and others from the WMW group? So I say to you now. You wish to be a part of this site then leave your past at the door and do not think you will find any sympothy for what Vladd's forum did to itself in this forum. Our willingness to work together possably in the future depends on our ability to leave the past where it belongs because I think it can be said honestly that enough has been said by both sides that if it isn't left in the past then there will be no future as most of it was hurtfull and has no place in a positive future.

As for KM. Do I think he took any money for anything he's done for whatever reason he's done it? Fuck no I don't as he has said and shown many times that it would feel like he was stealing from someone to do so. He has made some very bad decisions in my opinion in his recent past and has therefor made himself look bad. Something that will take a long time to repair. Noone has done anything to him. He has done it to himself.

To accuse Scyre of being on a payroll of anyone is a complete and false accusation and any future refferences that he might would be will be removed as once that kind of thing is said of someone the stigma alone of the alligation is almost impossable to remove. So consider that my warning and know that I mean it and will prove it and prove it proudly. The next step past that will be remove the source of any false accusation and do know that I mean that honestly and proudly also.

Who is right here? Who is wrong here? Who knows? Who decides? I don't, but I suggest before there are many more deaths on this battlefield that we all think about what we say from here out. A stab of slander goes a long way and hurts more deeply than a knife wound. A little good will goes equally a long way and is well missed around here. As a wise man once said, Be Good.

[DragonRider]

September 23, 2005
Thomas Mennecke 
 WinMX fans awoke Wednesday to disturbing news. However before realizing this news, the WinMX population was faced with the inability to connect to this community. Finally news reports began circulating that individuals were not alone and indeed the entire community had collapsed including the WinMX.com website.

Although the demise of FrontCode Technologies along with its WinMX.com homepage would not have been the end of the world, WinMX.com provided the all-important host cache server. This server provided the IP addresses to WinMX supernodes, thereby allowing clients entry to the network. With the WinMX.com domain eliminated, the network collapsed. That is unless of course someone establishes a new method of connecting to WinMX hosts.

A WinMX group named TheSourceCode has created a hosts file that allows clients to connect to the WinMX network. The instructions are currently being distributed through a collaborative effort with P2Pzone.net, a popular Italian P2P news site. The combined effort to resurrect the WinMX network also includes individuals named "SABre'911", "Polini" and "Ramna."

The method is quite simple. Those involved in the effort have indexed over 200 functioning WinMX hosts readily available to incoming WinMX connections. It requires the user to download a new host list provided from P2PZone.net, which redirects the WinMX client to the functioning hosts. From P2Pzone.net:

I look at this article and wonder...KM claims that it was his work that saved the WinMX community, Scyre claims that he saved the WinMX community. There would be no WinMX without them and their patch. Didn't TSC and LVHC have anything to do with resurrecting WinMX? Wasn't Vladd44 Help Channel one of the first to respond and give everyone a meeting place to work out the problem of reuniting the community while "chicken little" KM was running around wringing his hands and screaminig, "The sky is falling"...? Didn't the Italians put together servers and peer caches at a moments notice? Odd that I don't hear all of those people screaming "Where is my pat on the back?". Why? Because what they did in a time of need they did for the community, not for recognition or for personal gain. Was their work hidden behind closed doors? No, it was freely given and distributed to the community so that everyone could re-connect and begin sharing again. People have said that Vladd made money by offering Pay-for WinMX click links on his website, what is not mentioned is that links to free downloads of WinMX were also offered on his website. That would be the equivalent of telling people "Here are the keys to a new Cadillac and you can have it for free or if you would like I can give you the address (link) to a Cadillac dealership where you can get the same Cadillac at full price." There has been much finger-pointing and accusations between the various camps but at the end of the day the truth always comes out. The truth here is that many worked to resurrect WinMX and even though the different camps have different methods of keeping WinMX working every camp has the same goal, that goal is the survival of the WinMX community. Even though each side has had it's share of Osama bin Ladens or "King Macrovisions", no side is an "evil empire". There are good people mixed in with the bad on all sides. Currently April and Bughunter are working on a patch independently, I don't think that anyone is "begging Scrye or anyone else to hand over their work". Scyre claims to have a patch ready to go that would help the entire community but refuses to release it for personal reasons. To that all I can say is, "Keep it to yourself, the community will survive, it may take longer for a working patch to be developed but it will happen. We are a resourceful community and we will overcome all obstacles together." It doesn't really matter if you are WMW or Pie the fact that you are part of the community and willing to work to help the community survive and grow is all that matters. As far as a chosen few having the scource code to a closed scource patch is concerned I seem to remember that Windows2000 was "closed scource" until it was leaked all over the internet and Microsoft had to make a mad scramble to plug leaks and patch holes, and I could be wrong but I think that Microsoft may just have one or two more developers than WinMX has...

[ñòóKýçrÕôK]

Very well put and ty for saying that because it is true. As a community we fix things. As a community, we survive. As a community, we will thrive. We'll all do good and "right" in the future to remember that. And tell bug I need a way to get in touch with him. He's still a good friend in my opinion and I'd like to say hi once in a while.

[GhostShip]

Your words make me gleam Scyre, soon gone is any concern for the community, the simple fact is you where handed 2 peer cache srcs and told to use them as reference to create something workable for the community to protect cache operators from the WCS bug, once again the simple fact is your selfishness is now clearly in public, you chose to allow KM unrestricted help by doing nothing with either the cache srcs or the patch source, in effect you stopped others taking an active role by tying up our attentions on your word to take action, a word that's now shown to be worth not even a soap ring its so fragile, perhaps I was wrong to trust you but I did think you would create something using knowledge given to you as a template, but hey its clear where your coming from with allegations and innuendo, you cant face me off when you and I both know you took the src code for the patch and now afterwards claim you have a working one that will be closed src, how amazing.

Your plain selfish and you can rant and rave as long as you like, we both know what I do is for all users and benefits the community not myself, whilst I once held you in high esteem its clear you are not worthy of it.
When you have gone through your logs Scyre just remember that's how low you have sunk to even think about doing such things, even my worst enemy does not suffer from such lack of integrity on my behalf, its now clear anyone conversing with you is taking their privacy in their hands, of course its clearer still which of us is the one who will stay to help folks and which turncoat will go running to his master.


I don't think there is any more to say now, this guys a lowlife who instead of doing as he stated he would, merely took and took and delivered nothing, and not content with that now wishes to rubbish those like myself who work hard behind the scenes with every winmx programmer to keep mx rolling while people like himself sit by pontificating about morals and how its now clear he has none.

If your so honest then answer two simple questions, why did you take the patch src if you didn't need it, and two why did you do nothing to help folks suffering from the wcs bug when your saying clearly you could have, are these delusions on my part, or questions you keep brushing over, both lead me to the conclusion you only accepted the jobs to stop others doing so to maximise the community damage, and make no mistakes folks this one turncoat has probably doomed all the projects he was involved with.

Well done Scyre, turncoat extraordinaire

[..Ñøßߥ..]

Dragonrider let me just say this once and be done. Vladd's forum's undoing was due to Vladd and his lack of action to his own admins who were allowed to attack anyone who disagreed with their opinions. How long would I last right now if I were to go into a PIE help room and spout the praises of the dll patch?

Make no mistake here the simple truth is Vladd44 was taken down by force, as to what went on on VLADDS forum prior to this, isnt that his choice, as the owner? As for "lasting" in a chat room, yeah, you probably wouldnt last long in a PIE room peddling KMware, but then by rights you shouldnt last long in a WmW chat room peddling KMware either (Im not sure hes flavour of the month at WmW right?), true colours always shine through, some knew the deal with KM from the word go, folks like myself, Vladd, DragonRider etc, others chose to give KM another chance, he screwed up, he continues to screw the community.

The good news is, we are all steadily moving on, one way or another, thats the priority here, those that choose to hinder the work, walk away, be outspoken, attack the community etc etc, dont matter, the community moves onwards regardless. Right now, we need a little re-grouping so to speak, rumours of patches seem to be popping up all over, i have yet to see anything that fits the requirement, time is of the essence, we need to get the KMware off users machines asap.

[ñòóKýçrÕôK]

I will not argue the fact or fiction of whether Vladd chose to take down  his site or was forced. Everyone who was here at the time knows what they know. Nothing said now will change it. The only reason I mentioned it regardless is because it was brought up. And you will still recieve no sympothy here for Vladd's forum.

To date, KMware is still the best connection option currently available. Like it or not. Until a new patch is released, it is still on machines, and even then should not be removed until an assurance that a new patch can cut the mustard.

As for Scyre I've said already it was his choice to make and he should be allowed to make it withouth persecution.

[DragonRider]

[quote="ñòóKýçrÕôK" ]To date, KMware is still the best connection option currently available. Like it or not. Until a new patch is released, it is still on machines, and even then should not be removed until an assurance that a new patch can cut the mustard.[/quote]

Sadly what you say is true. It does connect, but what else does it do that we are unaware of? It should be noted also that the patch is not the easiest thing to remove either. I tried to run it once in order to make an informed decision as to which patch to use. When I attempted to use the Add/Remove program feature on my XPHome edition it showed that the program had been removed and then I started getting annoying pop-ups every few minutes from the auto updater...odd, from a patch that was supposed to be gone.

[ñòóKýçrÕôK]

Sadly what you say is true. It does connect, but what else does it do that we are unaware of? It should be noted also that the patch is not the easiest thing to remove either. I tried to run it once in order to make an informed decision as to which patch to use. When I attempted to use the Add/Remove program feature on my XPHome edition it showed that the program had been removed and then I started getting annoying pop-ups every few minutes from the auto updater...odd, from a patch that was supposed to be gone.

Are you smoking crack or something? There's no notification of update from the dll. Any updates it does is on the blocklist level and it only reffers to the blocklist. There's no registry entries to remove. There's no autoupdater. There's no uninstaller. If you no longer wish to use the frickin thing you simply close WinMX and delete the dll from the WinMX folder. Get off the pipe dude. Get away from the in crowd aand get to god or something jeese.

[data]

I see nothing getting "fixed" here on these pages. have we not learned from the vladd44 forums? choices were made let it  stand. You people still don't get it, the RIAA is the enemy and call it what you like blocking of the RIAA should always be the issue. If the people of the WinMX community Don't stand together the ground will crumble all around community and it will fall. Smart people taking potshots at 1 another is in what way helping? and in a public forum? WORK THIS OUT BEHIND CLOSED DOORS !!! People as smart as you are should've figured this out by now. (note) I truly believe that the fall of vladd44 was brought on by himself. If this issue isn't resolved what is to say that the same won't happen to WMW? Attacking KM or Quicks or Scyre's reputation does nothing for anyone, let's move on !!!