Discussion about Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?

[bughunter]

Open source it so noobs like KM can't shut you down.
End of debate

km already tried that and failed misserably..........
wpn is more robust then you give it credit for.......
so in your opinion unix linux etc is noob because its open source...........the fact the whole internet backbone uses unix code, including most routers broadband users use its all unix code, you should inform berkley IBM etc that there useing noob code to power the internet im sure they will be very greatfull to you for pointing out they have no idea what there doing.........

this debate is wether open source code will give the cartel information on how to cause winmx problems...........
even if its closed whats stopping the cartel from sending a closed source code patch to berkley for analysis.........nothing of course so what is it you think is achieved by not releaseing the source code............absolutely nothing ...........

this is about moveing winmx forward together makeing it a better place to be.........or do you want to stay where we are now fighting and abuseing each other ?..............
as ive said its time we put our personnal and or political differences aside and do whats right for winmx.........

[]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.]

i think you will find that g33k-Worlok_B was for o/s not against as your post implies bughunter

"Open source it so noobs like KM can't shut you down."

this debate is wether open source code will give the cartel information on how to cause winmx problems

sorry this is not the case either this thread is for ppl to vote abd give there own reasons why nothing to do with the cartell (unless they think it is a valid point)

even if its closed whats stopping the cartel from sending a closed source code patch to berkley for analysis.........nothing of course so what is it you think is achieved by not releaseing the source code............absolutely nothing ...........

well if thats the case i take it they also have tens of thousands of court summonses ready to be posted out to the users of winmx ( as they would have them banged to rights & no need to raise cases against young kids & students demanding unis hand over evidence such as we have been reading of late)
so lets try sticking to the facts as the admins are so keen about here .....or does that only apply when they dissagree with ppl to try decieve others into thinking they are right & the poster wrong ?

this is about moveing winmx forward together makeing it a better place to be.........or do you want to stay where we are now fighting and abuseing each other ?..............
as ive said its time we put our personnal and or political differences aside and do whats right for winmx.........

its about moving forward yes but because one person should never have had such a hold over it as the admins here were perfectly happy to let happen in the past ..... this is what got it where it is today not wheather its o/s or not thats irrelevent to the fact of where it is now ...... if KM hadnt flipped out on ppl here none of this would have come about and most everyone here would still be singing his praises from the rafters & winmx would be buisness as usual ..... hence it is personall diffrences that got it here & these questions asked

so lets not misslead ppl into thinking open source is the only way forward as this is not a proven fact ... its just  speculation at this point as it has always been closed source in the past so no one person can confirm this
also lets not misslead ppl into thinking just because its closed source it has to be run by just one person ( it can just as easily be run by a  group just as many closed source projects are).... it was the choice of the ppl here to let it all be run by one person in the past or do we forget that fact allready ?
whatever the outcome the cartells no doubt could close it at any time.....as you are so keen to point out in favour of o/s making no diffrence as to what they know already  because of there superiour knowledge ..... based on this oppinion whatever is done winmx could be closed at any given time and most everyone prosecuted .... open source/closed source.... it wont make any diffrence anyway except instead of the couple of patches we have know there could be thousands of versions all open to exploits and bugs to load up on any website for any unsuspecting  ppl who care to d/load any given patch ( just as with all the pay winmx out there) & yes the same can be said of any o/s prog but lets not forget this is winmx not just any prog
i dont want no one person to run a patch but also by the same token i dont want to temp fate either.
i would rather have a closed source patch run by a group approved by the comunity as a whole not just the self appointed as been the case in the past ........ after all that is what got us where we are today.

if we are going to say open source is the way forward lets back it with some facts of other p2p where this has been the case and the security in place to counteract any problems they have had with this (i suspect if this is the case it has been coded by ppl a lot more advanced than are here atm)
one patch .... great ...... one controlling it ......never ..... closed source ...... run by a group...... reasonably secure..great .....open source ...... nothing what so ever proven in the case of winmx so who is to say?
still one thing for open source when everyone plays around  with the code  & a majority cant connect this site will be deluged with requests for help wont it ? hmmmmm i wondered why the the owners & admins were so keen for open source here 

[bughunter]

and your vote is ?..........

[Mizz]

I would finaly like to see people to be able to make a vote or have an opinion on the topic at hand without getting it cut down or pushed into a corner with numerous quote's cluttering the topic itself....is this to much to ask ?

the topic is a Yes/No/Not sure topic....its requires a vote and maybe a small adding of information (if so desired) on the views of said vote....it does not require anything more and it certainly does not need fingerpointing and words like "Decieve" thrown into it (this has nothing to do with the topic or facts.....people are entitled to their opinions so can we atleast have them treated with respect ?


opensource  === Yes / No / Not Sure

As i started out with not sure.....i am now saying YES  100% opensource and i dont feel the need to explain myself to anyone as to my reasons !

[bughunter]

not to mention it was off topic......
attempted to present both sides of the argument........and failed as most of it was emotive tripe handed out as fact..........
even answered many of his own questions......
and in places didnt even make sense............

as you rightly pointed out mizz its a poll with a brief description as to why you voted a certain way, not the demented rant it turned out to be...........it would seem hell wants to remain in the past and thats his choice.........
while the rest of us just get on with it...............

[]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.]

what because it pointed out that you started berating someone for something they didn't even say bug ?  that was so on topic ehh ?
lol @ the emotive tripe comment.... just because it doesn't go along with what you now have to say on the subject

As for going off topic perhaps a look back will show you that went off when ghost and bearded re-ignited there differences  here .... the brief descriptions went out the window when others started to try sway the vote by pointing out things that are unproven & misleading ( hardly a brief reason then was there ?)

people are entitled to their opinions so can we at least have them treated with respect ?

Perhaps a read back will show you ppl started having a go at others long b4 i posted anything against what was said

I posted my opinions & they deserve the same rights as others & i also have a right to reply if ppl are being mislead ....as for respect just look around at the respect being shown by most of the admins here to anyone that disagrees with what they think is right.... pot kettle there mizz or do i need to point out for all to see the respect shown ?

Respect begins from the top down & as that has not been the case here in a good while i think playing the " respect" card when it suits is much like closing the stable door long after the horse has bolted
 
What wording is used  in a post is not for you to  decide appropriate or not  as that would go against the non censoring thats claimed on this forum

As i started out with not sure.....i am now saying YES  100% open source and i don't feel the need to explain myself to anyone as to my reasons !

Thats perfectly within your rights mizz but it does suprise me that someone that wasn't sure & is now so positivly sure has no wish to explain the turnaround especially in the position of authority that you have.... as if it has all become so clear to you then your reasoning might benefit others in your position b4 of not being sure also
but as you said you don't feel the need to give reasons as to the topic in hand so fair enough but by the same token i reserve the right to point out anything i see as misleading and used in such a way as to try sway a  vote... just as ppl feel the need to  berate posts they also don't agree with ( you only have to read back to see who & where)

How does not agreeing with open source mean living in the past bug ?
the rest of you are doing nothing to "get on with it" as you say...other than giving your own opinions just as i have the right to .... just because your own opinions differ from mine makes mine no less valid than your own & visa versa
 
Going on about being off topic when posts are in reply to what was posted b4 realy makes no sense at all especially when the posts are in reply to admins own posts ....if this was the case most threads would never get past the original post as anyone elses opinion differing from the original posters would be off topic.

[Mizz]

Hell,

You can sit here and copy and paste and quote till you are blue in the face... i asked a simple question nothing more...this does not mean you yet again have to dive into all the topics posted to find bits that might suit you (and conveniantly ingnore the rest of the post) and to shove people in corners or cut them down for simply speaking their mind you have a right to your opinion as do I as does anyone else for that matter....the reason i will not explain myself about my socalled turnaround is that i simply want to AVOID getting kicked in the back for it by other people who seem hellbent on shoving people into corners and trying to instigate something that shouldnt have existed to begin with...

and yes pot kettle hell....take a long hard look at that sentence....maybe it will stare back at you and tell you something about yourself. instead of constantly pointing fingers at others maybe u should pount the first finger at yourself for a change. I have my faults and i have made my mistakes....i dont need you to point them out to me constantly so you can feel the bigger person here. i knew when i posted earlier i would get a longwinded reply

pot kettle there mizz or do i need to point out for all to see the respect shown ?

do i really need to go any further hell ? i can feel yet another quote coming from you....

that kinda says it all doesnt it ? now knock it on the head with the fingerpointing...if you have a point, then MAKE IT, keep it on topic, stop trying to distort things to fit your own personal point of view. If you wish to be treated with respect then lets see some coming from your side as well

[TheMacDaddy]

Respect begins from the top down & as that has not been the case here in a good while i think playing the " respect" card when it suits is much like closing the stable door long after the horse has bolted  << as quoted by hell on earth

My my how dare you play a card of this nature (or anyone come to think of it) i have the uttermost respect here for all whom use this site and if you care to notice i made or started this post and set out the guide lines for it.....
Now wheres my respect ????
And i challenge anyone here to find a post on this site where i have out right attacked anyone ?
You say respect begins from the top down....
I would like to class myself near the top here (all from hard work) so your claim then does not hold water.
Give this post the respect i asked of it from the start and please keep it this way...

 

[bughunter]

it is emotive tripe hell but that seems to be beyond your abilty to comprehend, you rattle on about facts yet present none........
this topic is a poll on wether the new patch should be open or closed source, nothing more............so yes, no, or not sure is the approiate answer, yet you go on these rants that make sense to no one but your self..........
as an example how did you manage to drag km into a poll on open or closed source then make statements about law suits on the patch , ROFL .....
if you cant stay on topic and insist on going on these demented rants then your posts will be removed..........and if you dont like it tough,this may come as a shock but the world doesnt revolve around you...........
if you want to have a debate then open an appriate thread, and im sure folks will be more then happy to debate things with you.................

so just for the record what is your vote, as this is a poll after all.............

[]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.]

as an example how did you manage to drag km into a poll on open or closed source then make statements about law suits on the patch , ROFL .....

about as easily as you bringing unix "linux etc & berkley IBM etc " and also you talking about

nothing stopping the cartel from sending any patch to berkley for analysis by people far smarter then km will ever be, and i mean no disrespect to km about that statement either, its just fact........

and

not to mention there is already plenty of source code in the public domain released by bender etc

also

so even if the new patch goes open source its unlikely it will reveal anything that the cartel dont already know.......
so this whole open closed source code is just a smoke screen, in that it makes no real difference in denying the cartel any information that might or could prove usefull

you go on about facts yet present none yourself either & as for going on about rants a quick look at your own posts on many matters shows just how full of crap you are bug

if you cant stay on topic and insist on going on these demented rants then your posts will be removed

perhaps your own posts should be removed as well bug as you seem to stray off topic as much if not more than anyone else on this forum or do we forget you was banned for doing just the very same thing only to be allowed back after some lame assd excuse ??
perhaps practicing what you preach for once might encourage ppl to follow suit ..... untill that time cut the lectures and the putdowns ( there as lame as you are anyway)

and if you dont like it tough,this may come as a shock but the world doesnt revolve around you...........

sorry i forgot it cant as its to busy revolving around your own deluded self

if you cant stay on topic and insist on going on these demented rants then your posts will be removed..........

well i certainly wont loose no sleep over that one bug it will just prove how there are so many diffrent rules on this forum anyway depending on if you are a admin or not & that censoring is well &  truly alive here for all to see

@ TheMacDaddy  i appologise to you about this & i do have respect for yourself as i have always found you one of the few admins here to actualy show respect back & thank you for that shame the other admins dont follow your example as they have shown even you no respect in this thread either... just a read back shows that as it was them that started the problems here & others that followed
no excuse on my part and i am sorry for that
@ bug if you even read things properly you would no my vote as it was posted  appropriatly well  b4 you yourself started attacking ppl here for dareing to dissagree with yourself prompting others to follow suit
but then i forgot its that old 2 rule system here isnt it so its ok on your part ROFLMGDAO @ you & your lameness

[Mizz]

Are we quit done yet with the overzealous posting and quoting ?

I have asked twice that the topic be brought back on topic and i am NOT going to ask a third time...show this topic and the person starting it the proper respect please.

any posts following that are not on the subject matter at hand will be removed !

[GhostShip]

This thread was put up by The MacDaddy to get a guage of public opinion, whilst technically Hell is not breaking any rules by multiple posting in a vote thread you have to seriously question his motives for doing so especially when the majority of what he has posted is hardly relevant.

Hell, if you have any proof of your censorship claim or any other claims against those operating this site, lets see it in a seperate thread, otherwise drop the bad attitude, you are not forced to post on this site and when you do I expect at least some measure of respect from you for your fellow posters.


 

[bughunter]

who cares what hell is claiming hes attempting to turn a poll into his personnal rant space and if he continues ill just start deleteing his posts untill he learns to stay on topic and post correctly.......
if he wants to have a debate then he can start an appriate thread........
thou somehow it will just be the same emotive tripe thrown up as fact, with the occasional whinge about censorship thrown in, in a vain attempt to prevent his rants and accusations being removed.........
but thats ok if he dont like it he can go post else where............

[Me Here]

This topic has had 944 reads and 30 votes. 

What does that say to you all?  To me it says ppl are reading it and going away, not bothering to vote.

Why arent they votiing on it?  Some Im sure have no idea how they feel about it and rather then sit here and nit pick about why that is, Im just going to say this vote, make a post about why you voted how you did, and move on letting others have that same choice instead of making this thread look like some mess that no one wants any part of. 


This thread is NOT a debate on the merits and disadvantages of Open Source.  It is a vote and why did you vote that way.  Anyone repeaditly posting in it to debate any subject will be moved.

Its perfectly clear to me how some of you feel about open sourcing the patch and those points dont hold more merit by hammering them into the ground  and are even lost in the mass of posts.   It also doesnt give others the chance to make a post of thier views when its likely to just get burried with rehtoric and the same ppl posting again and again.

If you have comments to make about the admins of the site or the site itself then i suggest you start another topic for that, if you want to debate open source then start another topic.. its probably well too late to save this one and get folks posting and voting here that have read and gone away but from this point on, move on.

[Micromecca]

I have split this section of the original thread into a seperate Topic, after multiple requests to keep the original thread to its purpose, certain people just dont seem to want to listen and give others a fair chance at explaining their reasons for their own vote, it seems they would rather jump on everything others have to say and take the thread completely off topic.

Feel free to carry on your ramblings here

[Me Here]

Hell Im going to tell you something right now, I like you so really I do, but you had better stop with the incinuations of some conspiricy here or come up with the proof there is.  Ive had enough of this and Ive banned ppl for less incinuating then I've let you get away with.

If your so sure we are out to get you then prove it or move on

[bughunter]

your stupid post was deleted hell........as not only was it off topic ( as usuall ) but contained the standard stupidity you are now becomeing famous for.............if you want to make accusations then back them up with facts and not the emotive tripe you are presenting.........i will not reply to your slander simply because i was brought up to not pick on the mentally challanged such as your self.........
in future post appriately as per the topic.....
and try to present facts to support your posts, instead of the demented waffel ..........other wise you can expect your posts to be deleted............and no its not censorship its simply takeing out the garbage...............

[..Ñøßߥ..]

my vote is no to open source  why fix what aint broke and works well and why give the riaa the amunition to take mx down if there is a way !  plus open source patch in my opion is only because its what the pie team want i cant think of any other reason why the dll patch should be open source the dll closed source has worked fine plz keep things as they are

You think having a closed source patch written and operated by one user (KM) "works well". While its true the patch did what it said on the tin, plus perhaps some other functions only some got to see, i fail to see how having this closed source patch has worked out well for anyone, in fact its left quite a mess that now needs to be cleaned up all over again.

I would also add Pie team would back an OS patch that is true but thats because there is a some great reasons to go open source, PIE and many of WmW can simply see the value of these reason to Winmx, even Bug sees this:

there are a couple of things some folks are forgetting......

1  the cartel dont need to find any exploit in any patch as they have a open door thru sabre

2  any patch wether open or closed will be sent to berkley by the cartel for analysis anyways its highly unlikely they are going to find anything better then what they already get thru sabre........

3  if the new patch being open source helps to bring the majority of winmx together going in one direction then surely thats got to be better then the current situation where we are constantly fighting and bickering.......

4 open source allows others to work on improveing things for us all and of course prevents the one person in controll scenerio.......

5  closed source doesnt protect winmx as some think because of point 2 and leads to the finger pointing and accusations that we currently have......

6 i see this as a opportunity for us to improve winmx for everyone, only question is do we have the courage to sieze the moment......

Dazco, do you really think just passing the bulk of the control over to another KM with a closed source patch is a good idea? If you want ongoing issues, power plays, child like tantrums and the ultimate loss of more Winmx users, then this is how to achieve that. If you would prefer to see WInmx unite and grow, open source presents a great opportunity for the community as a whole, in fact i can think of no good or valid factual reason for anyone to now release a new closed source patch, it just makes no sense.

[]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.]

The proof is in the way all your crap has been moved here bug you dozey idiot & the fact my post was deleted & your still spouting a load of crap about it says a lot more about yourself than anyone else here
as for not replying to mentally challanged such as me..... ummmmmmm  isnt that exactly what you done by posting ........ & im mentaly challenged ????........ if thats the case then your positivly retarded stll ranting your same crap about emotive tripe & lack of facts ..... ffs give up  spitting your dummy out and climb back in your pram.....you go on about my posts lmao all ppl got to do is take a look at your own post history to see who is a demented ranting idiot who cant even take on board even the most basic of things...... you couldnt even appologise to the guy you started a rant at for something he never even said & ranted furthurmore because i pointed out that you misread his post.
well by deleting my last post &  still posting your rant against me afterwards  just goes to show that this site is censored & has two sets of rules one for idiots like you and one for the rest here.
claiming it as clearing out the rubbish and then posting as you have after just goes to prove my point for all to see because if it was rubbish clearing as you said then your post count would be down to the single figure mark.

anyway moving on from that  half witted village idiot bug hunter as per requested by several ppl i will post a copy of my original post that was deleted compare this to posts by others here & then say there is only one set of rules these days

Re: Winmx Patch and Should It Be Open Or Closed Source ?
« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2007, 10:50:09 pm »

* ]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[., wonders if the lynch mob of admins are done posting off topic about posting off topic & when mizz is going to delete the off topic posts posted since she threatened to delete any off topic posts

* ]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[., forgets there are two rulebooks here these days
1/ the admins one where they do as they like
2/ everyone elses one where they do as their told by the admins who do as they like

@ bug if it was such a vain attempt then my posts would be long gone do the maths & pleeeaaassseeee keep up & move on from that tripe fettish you have developed your becoming so predictable & tiresome try reading the part about multiple posting the same things tsk tsk bad bug

@ mizz

any posts following that are not on the subject matter at hand will be removed !

 if this post happens to be removed after your last statement above & the others posted since are not then that would be deemed censorship in any language or at the least meaning the 2 tier rulebook theory is true
perhaps thinking about what you are threatening to do would be a wise move in future

Just proves my point that this action was taken and the excuse used was

and no its not censorship its simply takeing out the garbage...............

a real valid excuse there bug when you are still posting abuse even after it was deleted

quote from Me Here August 30, 2007, 11:34:01 pm

Hell Im going to tell you something right now, I like you so really I do, but you had better stop with the incinuations of some conspiricy here or come up with the proof there is.  Ive had enough of this and Ive banned ppl for less incinuating then I've let you get away with.

If your so sure we are out to get you then prove it or move on

@ me here     i think bug has done that for me by deleting then posting as he did even after my post was gone & threatening to delete any replies that he does not agree with

in future post appriately as per the topic.....
and try to present facts to support your posts, instead of the demented waffel ..........other wise you can expect your posts to be deleted

in saying the above and posting as he has shows there is two sets of rules here as i dont see any of his demented rants removed do you ?
just one more thing why have so many posts been moved here yet only myself is getting the warnings as every post moved here is off topic ?

after your post above i wasent going to bother posting no more as i had made my point & by it being deleted proved it also ....... but since the village idiot known as bug sought to rant on even further i feel i have a right to reply even if it does mean being banned for it ..... all the while you let admins carry on in this way you will get conflict if not from  me then it will come from others for sure as no one likes power crazed admins who think they can do as they like & not expect a reply in retaliation

Ban me thats your choice its sure not gonna break my heart as i will still carry on helping winmx users just as i have for the past four years & will carry on doing so for as long as its around

[GhostShip]

Whilst no one here on the site team is happy your post has headed off into the wild yonder of lost internet material, things do go wrong on the site now and then, we are after all a community of many parts and do not rule any volunteer with an iron rod here, we rely on admins (and admins are also fellow winmx users) to control the site with our blessing, in this case it seems something was done thats not repairable, I can only offer my apologies for the miscommunication of our standing instructions to our admin team to move anything they are unsure of to the moderators section for a top level decison, this as you know is the usual procedure if there is potentially offensive material on public view.

I shall speak to those involved and ask they follow our site guidlines, I hope this is acceptable.