Is WCS Still Causing Network Disruption ?

[MinersLantern]

My (several) wcs rooms have attempted to connect to one strange ip 3 times out of the last 435 times...
'tsohlacol'  aka 1.0.0.127 aka localhost 127.0.0.1 spelled backwards, that sounds less than an attack to me. On the old wcs, when the 1.x thing started, the attempts were multiple times per second, and not usually to backwards localhost but some other 1x.x.x thing. Its begining to sound like a wpn bug to me, where winmx, etc... has a problem when behind a network, of getting the real IP, and gets the local one instead??? or something like that.
I run local caches and make everything connect to that... maybe thats why I dont see all the 1x.x.x traffic that you see??? I dont know.  lol

[birdman]

I use FX and have the 1.X.X  ips blocked  firewall gets hit hard too  also some people are using peerguardian to block the ips i guess unless everyone does this what iam doing will have little effect

[GhostShip]

Sorry MinersLantern As I stated clearly earlier, I know exactly what is happening and how and what the effect on the WPN is, there is no "WPN bug".

This is one of the main reasons ppl have decided to take no action to protect the WPN, most prefer to believe its someone elses problem.

I tested PG myself as a halting tool when this problem first arose by adding the entire 1 IP range, the result was the usual wealth of traffic trying to head off to the random 1 IP ranges at such a pace that over time all the sockets would likly be tied up with blocked ports, a previously noticed flaw seen when PG does not release the blocked ports and the client is forced to keep trying others so they get blocked in turn, as you may guess no overall benefit is had using this method.

Once it was plain stopping this traffic could be an annoyance in terms of either chat server or winmx performance degradation I decided the correct way ahead would be to halt this traffic at source and asked folks not to use the buggy version of WCS, KM is fully aware not only who is using this version but their room names also, I had hoped he would act responsibly and publish this for us to help the hosts upgrade without too much fuss as I did when his MCS bug caused problems.
I suppose expecting ppl to do the right and proper thing is simple minded of me.
 
I,ll do some more research folks on which rooms are running the buggy WCS and then we can move forward in opening dialogue with those hosts affected.

[James420]

I just think the 1.x.x.x stuff was giving KM too much trouble for him to really fix it. If you didn't know, all of that stuff was removed completely from WCS when it was "fixed" and he added blocking for the 1.x.x.x stuff so it wouldn't effect WCS servers, Ouka did the same...even faster then KM did. Doing it like that will kill off that 1.x.x.x stuff eventually.

You seem to try and be the police of winmx. If anything goes wrong, the first to point fingers seems to always come from here. And it's usually KM's fault. Go figure...he's the smartest guy when it comes to WinMX, he knows the protocol inside and out. He's also done even worse stuff before in the past, to winmx. But he's helped it out more then anyone else could.

He knows what he's doing when he makes his software. That can be good or bad, and programmers are known to make good and bad things. We can't have only the good. Hell, some stuff KM has done has helped find bugs, exploits, ect. The only reason why someone else hasn't caused problems like that on the wpn is because they have no clue how to do it if they even wanted to.

The point is, WCS is by far the best server a user can pick right now. Unless you can prove me wrong, and I've tried all of the other servers. Can't stand most of them, and like Tiny. I always come back to WCS, now it's the only thing I mess with. Has been for some time, no reason to bother with the others.

[Mizz]

I just think the 1.x.x.x stuff was giving KM too much trouble for him to really fix it. If you didn't know, all of that stuff was removed completely from WCS when it was "fixed" and he added blocking for the 1.x.x.x stuff so it wouldn't effect WCS servers, Ouka did the same...even faster then KM did. Doing it like that will kill off that 1.x.x.x stuff eventually.

You seem to try and be the police of winmx. If anything goes wrong, the first to point fingers seems to always come from here. And it's usually KM's fault. Go figure...he's the smartest guy when it comes to WinMX, he knows the protocol inside and out. He's also done even worse stuff before in the past, to winmx. But he's helped it out more then anyone else could.

He knows what he's doing when he makes his software. That can be good or bad, and programmers are known to make good and bad things. We can't have only the good. Hell, some stuff KM has done has helped find bugs, exploits, ect. The only reason why someone else hasn't caused problems like that on the wpn is because they have no clue how to do it if they even wanted to.

The point is, WCS is by far the best server a user can pick right now. Unless you can prove me wrong, and I've tried all of the other servers. Can't stand most of them, and like Tiny. I always come back to WCS, now it's the only thing I mess with. Has been for some time, no reason to bother with the others.

I cant believe what im reading ! you have got to be kidding me here.... :shock:   the 1.x.x.x might have been giving tomuch trouble for  KM to really fix ?  The TYPO !!! gheezus and i thought this was the man that could do it all...the selfproclaimed saviour of winmx...pfffft give me a break already.

you come here and are quick to defend KM pointing your finger at anyone who doesnt agree with the way KM has gone about doing things....you call the people here the winmx police ?  well i didnt see anyone hold a gun to KM's head telling him he HAD to do the things he has done in the past.... it was all his own doing and im pretty sure he knew exactly what he was doing....if people here had not spoken up....the network would be a mess and noone would have known why....thats not policing...thats thinking and using your mind...having the networks best intrest at heart...or would you rather have them cover it up ? and say nothing about it...and just let the network go to hell ?

you say it yourself...hes done even worse things in the past....so it must come of no suprise to you know that people are fed up with his antics..abuse trust often enough and you will never regain it !

He knows what he's doing when he makes his software. That can be good or bad, and programmers are known to make good and bad things. We can't have only the good. Hell, some stuff KM has done has helped find bugs, exploits, ect. The only reason why someone else hasn't caused problems like that on the wpn is because they have no clue how to do it if they even wanted to.

EXACTLY !  he knows what he is doing alright yet he doesnt expect to get called on it does he ? and if he does get called on it im sure theres people around that will come to his resque and defend his ways as you are doing here. so we are supposed to take the good with the bad...he can make a program at one end that gives us a great chatserver (i have to be honoust it was indeed a great chatserver) but we are not allowed to speak up when he uses that very same chatserver to abuse the network ?

Nope we just have to take the good with the bad...right james ?  afterall this is KM hes different...hes the authority on winmx....he knows it all...so lets all just sit here and shut up and let the poor boy do his thing and take the network down completly shall we ?

ya THINK ?  he made his bed....now he will have to bloodywell sleep in it. He has breached trust of so many people here and of the people using winmx and didnt take 2 seconds to think over it....and im sure if he got the chance he would do it again !  simply to make a point, dont mess with KM....he treats people like crap but hey !!! hes KM...he has his quirks so please endulge him...or he might get upset and throw another tantrum....hes only ever nice to you if you do as he says and dont go against him....as long as you serve your use in his eyes....and once that has run out....well your just an idiot then aint ya ?  who the hell are you ? pffffffffft....

I am at a point where i really dont give a crap what people think right now....ive sat here for months and watched the whole thing evolve in its own weird way....and see people say "But HEY...its KM...hes got his quirks and hes the best...he does bad things but ahwell...thats just KM...lets just move on"

IM SICK OF IT....the whole KM is god and everyone else is a idiot thing....he did what he did....theres no way around that...he knows what he did....everyone knows...he just didnt feel like repairing it untill it got to hot under his feet...hes lost all his credibility and tries to shift blame together with his loyal group of followers...they point fingers in other directions hoping people will be confused about the real point here....

there was a problem with WCS


he knew EXACTLY what was happening with the WCS 1.x.x.x but he didnt feel the need to fix it...he was going to play this card as long as he could as it was proberbly his last card....

URGHHHHH someone get me a bucket please....so i can throwup....coze this really makes me sick to my stomach !


we have to take the good with the bad indeed ....yeah RIGHT...


Id like to say this to end my rant:  Id stick my hands in the fire for the people on this forum and in the WinMXWorld helproom as i have trust in each and every one of them.

do you think KM will do the same for you james ?

[James420]

Do you even have the slightest clue what the 1.x.x.x stuff came from? KM happened to be trying to make WCS work like a chat room SHOULD. Yet no other servers do. When someone uses a 3rd party chat server that doesn't talk with the wpn to share the info it has, then you pretty much create black holes on the network. Because those servers won't do anything but keep the primaries and stuff to it's self for it's own use. Instead of helping the network like it's suppose to do.

The bug was some packet changing the first part of a REAL ip address to a 1. It wasn't intentional flooding. If it was, why the hell would he have just picked something like that, which can easily be blocked. Ouka has already done it, yet no other server has.

KM just stripped the whole bit of code that he was making that made WCS actually communicate and share the primaries with the network and stuff like all wpn chat server's should. So I'm guessing having that part in a chat server is bad for the wpn as well, huh?

You guys seem to know all about this stuff, then you should know that every single 3rd party chat server out there actually hurts the damn wpn by creating nodes that use the information yet never share it. Guess the blackholes wouldn't hurt the network, you guys seem to know it all.

I also love how the winmxworld chat room losing people like crazy because of the buggy server, is being blamed on the wpn and KM. How someone came to that idiotic conclusion I have no idea...but it is worth a good laugh.

KM is a smart programmer, and like any. If you piss him off, things will get ugly. KM can be immature, just like many other people. Hell, he has a list of programms called "Kill Vladd" along with other names, no telling what they do.

He also left WMW for his own good reasons, and many others are starting to see why he did so. WMW isn't what it use to be, I use to love this place. Now it seems to be falling apart and heading down the road that Pie did a while back.

If you honestly believe that KM actually made WCS do the 1.x.x.x stuff on purpose to harm the network, then that's fine. Believe what you want, but if he wanted to harm the network. I'm sure it still wouldn't be here. He fixed the problem, and added blocking for it for those people that insist on not updating. Sure, he was slow at doing it. But it got done, so everyone can stop crying over it.

As for your question, there use to be a time that KM would do anything for WMW to help it and the users. But like many others, he has his own reasons for changing and abandoning WMW and the people that help it. But since you guys can only ask Quick and everyone else that hates him, what his reasons were. Instead of KM yourself. Then you shall forever remain thickheaded for not hearing both sides.

The wpn is fine, KM isn't harming it at all. He's still programming for it, making it a better experience. His WCB is proof of that alone. For those users that claim that his programs suck and are bad for you to use and anyone on the network, they're full of it. Everyone has known for years that KM's stuff is known for stability and it's great features. So untill you can prove me otherwise, I'll stick to WCS and his other great projects. Beats using Ouka that is known for dropping users and other stuff, but apparently that is KM's fault too.

[Mizz]

how strange is it then....he knew the 1.x.x.x bug was in WCS and it was damaging the network...yet he took his sweet everloving time to fix it even ....this from the man that you claim wants to make the network a better experiance. Its not like noone asked him to fix....yet he didnt feel the need to do so....all in time he said...he would get to it eventualy....it was a MINOR problem as he stated....dont worry about it....and he just left it...untill finaly he decided its wasnt fun anymore and he fixed it....and now we should all stand on our chairs and hail KM.....again "hell freezes over" springs to mind....


its like taking a car to the garage for a flat tire.....they pop on a new tire but in the mean time take the windows out... a minor problem at best...the car still drives dont it ?  who cares that its windy and the rain poors in...stop ya bitching and wait till we feel good and ready to put ya windows back in....WE KNOW BEST ! your just thee idiot that came to us in trust in the first place.

trust me ill never take my car back to that garage and i will tell others to keep away from it as far as possible

[GhostShip]

James you like to make claims regarding myself and this site, so far you have claimed we hate KM, then you have claimed no one here knows how the WPN works, and now you claim KM fixed his error and is not to blame because you his right hand man( according to his forums post count) say so ?

Can I burst your bubble and ask you to continue your "I love KM" speech  elsewhere, someplace where it wont offend ordinary winmx users, folks who just want to use the WPN without having the network disrupted, if a vote was held here to use winmx only and block all chat servers which do you think the folks would back?

A working WPN or some guys chat server, you figure it out. 

No one asked KM to play with the primary protocol and no one will thank him when his "live testing" goes wrong, thems the breaks and KM was well aware of the risks, that aside its the 6 weeks he took to resolve a 3 minute "typo" that made clear to all that this was a deliberate attack on the network and the peer caches, KM himself posted on this site in an effort to deflect the blame onto others when he admitted in private he was to blame, be clear here James, there is no hate just disappointment and anger that he has turned from making winmx a p2p to envy to making it die by driving users away out of malice, there is no other reason to try to take down the peer caches or the network, I have posted this again recently to remind KM and the rest of the users that the attack is still in evidence and that we should act as a community in dealing with those responsible.

[James420]

Heh, the post count on his forum is because I kinda help people out there when they have a question that needs to be answered. I use to do that kind of thing here, but things have changed way too much. I'm not the only one that believes so either.

As for KM, I recognize that he is smart and knowns what he's doing. Even if it happens to be a bad thing at the moment. But there is even moments where I can't stand him, he can be a complete smartass most of the time.

And you sure seem to like the word "attack" a lot. Why do you have it stuck in your had that KM is attacking the WPN? The 1.x.x.x stuff? Get it through your damn skull, he didn't do it on purpose. If he did do it on purpose...then why in hell did he fix the problem, and even add blocking so it couldn't effect it in the past incase...say some script kiddy picked up the old WCS to try and "attack" the network with it.

And yes, it took him forever to get around to fixing it. Drove me nuts, probably more then anyone of you. WCS is all I use to host my room, the whole time the 1.x.x.x stuff was going around. I had to completely remove my room and wait for it to be patched. I even had my own blocking for it, yet it still made it hard to run a room. Since my router is a pos and didn't like all the fake IPs.

It was stupid grudges and arguements that started the Pie/WMW wars. Now that it's over, it's the WMW/KM wars. It's beyond childish. One of the smartest guys when it comes to WinMX, and the best WinMX help team. Hate can't stand eachother so much, that they drag the users into the middle of it.

I've been censored on here, in the chat room. Even kicked and banned for stupid reasons, like suggesting someone use WCS to host their chat room. Last time I was censored like that, I was in the Vladd44 room a long time ago.

I'm not a KM fan boy, I do on the other hand love his work. He's made some of the best 3rd party software for WinMX, and if you deny that. Then your grudge against him goes deeper then I thought.

I just don't understand why you believe KM just wants to bring the WPN down. Don't you think if he wanted to, he would have already? He is the one that developed the type of blocking that the patch uses. I'd bet almost anything that he knew of ways to get around it, plus a few other exploits.

Yet he continues to develop new stuff for it. The best chat server there is, a new bot that'll replace ShareGuard and possibly Metis later down the road. He's also showed us bugs and exploits in WinMX that are beyond ugly. Yet instead of thinking that we should fix them, we just sit here and point fingers saying that he's trying to bring down the wpn.

This fued between you and him is beyond childish anymore, users can't even enjoy the best server out there without you trying to hunt them down and tell them they are attacking the network because they are using WCS. You claim you'll be like this till KM appoligizes to you and everyone for something he didn't intentionally do. It's pathetic, the way both of you act about all of this. But, just like the old Pie/WMW fued. I'm sure this one will go on for years to come.

[J a M e S]

I Didnt Realise there was a fued, I thought KM and WMW went there seperate ways?

Why on earth would KM release a web page that show, in REALTIME, WinMX users actions including there IP Address, if you ask me.. it seems KM intentionally added the 1.x.x.x bug and realised no one was noticeing so decided to make it public with his WPN tolset page thing so people would start asking questions and KM would get the attention he craves.

[..Ñøßߥ..]

James420 - If KM is as skilled and as competant as you suggest, why did a simple typo take 6 weeks to fix?

Answer - it wasnt a typo, it was a way of discrediting the caches, clearing the way for the great KM to come to the rescue..............   :roll:

[Mizz]

but Nobby !!!! we all seem to forget the biggest point made man...

he fixed it eventualy didnt he ? took him long enough, was brought to his attention more then enough...hell James himself had trouble keeping his roam afloat yet that didnt seem to persuade KM to take action and fix his bug...but he only ever fixed it when things got to hot under his feet..

but lets be honoust here

HE FIXED IT.....

why are we even bitching about it anymore...hes fixed the bug so lets all just forget the damage thats been done (and perhaps still is getting done) to the wpn and the rooms that we have lost, they wernt important to KM...so why should they be to us.

 

[James420]

The tool to see wpn traffic came before the 1.x.x.x bug did. Kinda need the tools to see if what you're making is working correctly. But it seems he couldn't get the wpn thing to work correctly for WCS. The IP tool thing isn't all that accurate either, plus it's just a search request that is sent to...any client that accepts them.

[James420]

KM's the one that kept the users to WinMX in the first place, instead of just letting it die out when FrontCode pulled out. And your claims are simply nothing more then claims. Research the BUG a bit, you'll notice that just the first bit changes to a 1. Which if you're a programmer, you could see how something simple like that could happen.

Also, at the time if you wasn't paying attention. He was working on his new site, doing a lot of work on it. But yes, I agree. He should have fixed WCS first, before anything else due to the severity of the problem. But oh well, it's all fixed. He even gave us some new features and a great new bot that anyone can make plugins for.

[MinersLantern]

KM did fix it... but now its doing it again, new version of the same software.
Simple cure you know... redo the caches so that fake, weird, screwy ips that don't exist in this universe are automatically removed (on the packet level) firewalling ips that don't exist is a waste of typing labor.
Any software that allows attempts to connect to known (non-used) ips is gay. This includes not only windows but even winmx.  lol
Yes it may involve some lagtime, but quality is better than quantity, in all things.

[GhostShip]

Slight problem with your idea there Miners Lantern, the network has a method of swapping node information between clients, its not just the peer caches being hit, also adding any IP filtering to the caches as you suggest will mean the closure of many of the public caches as the extra bandwidth involved in authenticating each connecting client would mean we would be reliant on server based caches only, something we have been trying to move away from to diversify and decentralise any single point of weakness, furthemore by adding any sort of filtering to the peer caches we could incurr some sort of legal duty to block when requested by a countries authorities, not having this ability currently leaves us in a neutral legal position.

The bottom line is the problems in fixing this issue in terms of major effort for us just dont equate to how simple it would be for KM to act responsibly and publish the information required as to who is using this client version, this single act would ensure not only that we could help resolve the current disruption but would indicate to the community that he takes their concerns seriously and wishes to do the correct thing in making this problem disappear from all our horizons, after all there is always the remote possibility an outside entity is generating this traffic, resolving this question is also an important aspect of this thread as it will dictate whats to be done next in the way of a research/development direction.

It seems no matter what is said here James420 (aka Guru) is intent on portraying this network disruption issue as a feud between KM and ourselves, this is obviously a simplistic effort to divert attention from where it needs to be, this problem will not go away by itself and instead of offering his services to inform KM of the continuance of  network disruption all I,m seeing is poorly researched technical claims and drama thrown in, will this sort of posting help fix the problem ?
Unlikely folks I think you,lll agree.

[James420]

[Link Removed By Ghostship ]

Look yourself, or find your own way to see the wpn traffic. The 1.x.x.x stuff is nothing like it was, it's disappearing. But a blocking patch for FXS would help a lot, but then you'd need someone that could write something like that...if you guys are so good. Why do you do nothing but complain about the problem and point fingers? All you have to do is block the 1.x.x.x range, it's not like those are IPs that will ever be used anyways.

Prove that the new WCS is harming the network. It's the least buggy server there is now. And I believe the fix for the old 1.x.x.x stuff was intentional. If you wasn't paying attention, KM released the new version of WCS with the fix, the same day the WMW room switched from WCS to Ouka. He can be childish at times.

[GhostShip]

James your talking as if you understand the many levels of complcation in this situation, unfortunately its clear from what your posting this is not the case, no one has yet claimed KM,s "fixed" releases are causing disruprtion, the problem is the older ones may well be and as they all connect to the network via KM,s site for both update information and its position as the connecting peer cache, its clear he has the capability to show exactly which rooms are using the problem version if any, this is the information that is sought and any decent winmx supporter would not think twice about providing this or contacting the rooms directly.

This is the last chance KM will get to help resolve this situation, no one here is going to be disposed in the future to help someone who has point blank refused to assist in cleaning up a mess, last time I helped KM to resolve his MCS problem with his co-operation, this time its his refusal to help that will show all winmx users where the "mystery" traffic is arriving from, and have no fear those behind this network disruption will be detected and exposed.

[update]
At the time of posting I can see the level of real to fake traffic is running at 60 % fake and 40% real, this is nothing new and varies, the reason I make these posts is when for some "mystery " reason this ratio changes and reaches a primary fragmenting level, this seems to occur at various time of the day and when it does it coincides with room droppings and caches receiving extra fake traffic from the network, this is all just confirmation of the degradatory effects of flooding the primary room listing system with fake node information

[Zénar]

Well... it may convert all IPs in 1.x.x.x but I saw the packets when I've done tests myself. I'm seeing more 1.x.x.x than real ips. This is strange because that mean something is creating these new 1.x.x.x from nothing. 

I've seen the file search packets and there is also an huge flood of false searchs. Something like (Simpsons) can be searched 100 times or more in a row and all these searches are done from differents IPs. That mean something is creating false searches (a flood). 

Right now, I've seen string file search but I've not wanted to check in the hash search because there is too much datas in the same time. I'm sure there is flood there too but I don't want to check. 

Maybe it's KM, maybe it's not and I will not accuse someone when I don't have any proof of the origin of these attacks...

[White Stripes]

floods of false searches smells a lot like the mpaa.... and whos to say they arent reading these forums and thought "hmm... the 1.xxx.xxx.xxx addresses 'hurt' ... lets stab them with em"

im not going to say who it is or who it isnt but the false search flood is definitly fishy....