How is the new patch coming along?

[Scyre]

So what we are left with as an answer is this:

There will be no new patch from winmxworld.
There would be, but they will not release open source because it is too dangerous. Which is what I tried to tell them months ago but it ended in a big fight because Ghost didn't agree, and then tried to double talk to explain everything.

My guess would be that 'Patch' is indeed KM. And either way he is right. After stealing KM's code and having functional patches left by him, WMW still cannot make a patch. Period.

Zero, I would like to apologize to you on behalf of the MX community, because you ask real questions, but are instantly attacked in an attempt to make you feel like you don't matter. They do this a lot to people, like rats in a frenzy because you asked too many of the right questions.

There are a great many of us in the community who do not agree with that sort of display of despiration or lack of respect for an honest question.

Any for Nobby, you are right on the money. If WMW cannot create a patch, what would make everyone stupid enough to trust another big claim that they could somehow make a client?

They can't.

What MIGHT happen:
Ghost would get someone outside to do the work and claim credit and talk crap about how he 'tirelessly suffered to get it all to you' and even then it will probably be from giving out more of the 'dangerous' source code he stole, and without anyone's vote (as he did with the italians he was having work on some code).

So, the TRUTH of the matter is that there will not be annything anytime soon from WMW and do not have high hopes for it.

We are still all using Kevin's program, and still using KM's patch or the hosts file.

Ghost makes a good game of trying to talk above everyone, but that is an attempt to cover inadequacy in his claims.

He is completely false in his statement that KM never could get secondary patching and it had to be done through primary which is why it is dangerous blah blah blah.

That's horsecrap.

Don't be fooled by the good talking of someone who promises the moon. Someone called it 'vaporware' and that is exactly what it is.

Maybe in the new year someone more trustable will arrive with something that will change the community... But don't look for it coming from WMW.
This place has been good for assisting KM, and for maintaining a blocking list. They offer a lot of help for the community. But they are not programmers, and cannot deliver on Ghost's big claims. What saddens me the most is that there are really good people in WMW, but they are being led by a liar.

Maybe that will change this year too...

Be Good

[bu44er]

Ghostship after reading what you have posted i kind of respect you alot more. All of my posts where insulting people i admit but it makes me mad when i am lied to. I am now going to ask you if you need my help on anything if you do ill do my best to do it.

Please let me help you all.

[bu44er]

Scyre i would like to know more about what you are stating as for some reason nearly everyone who says there as been issue i can not find the info is there a chat room you use and would you mind spending some time explaining to me what been going off because this would help.

[Scyre]

Well, I am not in too many rooms lately (got a lot of things going on lol) but I will tell you a little about it here so that others can benefit from it too:

The secondary protocol that WinMX uses is fairly robust and secure. it is not a source of concern. The Chat protocol is also pretty safe as there are very few things that can be misused.

The Primary protocol, however, is a good protocol, but has a couple of really easily corruptible issues with it. What this means is that if it were to be publically published as open source, many people would use it to cripple the winmx network, or write programs that would take advantage of these insecurities to really harm the community. This is why I have said for a long time that open source is a very bad idea if we hope to still have a community.

I can understand people's desire to see the internals and see what 'makes it tick', but the harm that could be done would bring a quick end to our community. And once it is all published, that's a genie you can't put back in the bottle. The damage would be done.

There is a possibility of a new client being written, but some issues would have to be reworked before it could be an open source project. I cannot actually see how a client could be backward compatible but still be safe from the vulnerabilities if it were to be open source. Because the source itself to the newer client would show very clearly the problems with the old client, and for the thousands who were still on the old clients, they would be fair game for anyone wanting to shut down the network.

I hope this helps to clear up some of the questions. I will be around here and there, but have so many things in my life that I don't often get online to even read anymore.

Just keep in mind that some things are not good to have open source to, as it can jeopardize everything everyone HAS been working for.

Be Good!

[GhostShip]

What I should make clear is Scyre was asked to program a peer cache for the community ( yes folks, something for you to obtain for yourselves so you would no longer have to behold to anyone either here or at pie) and instead made excuses after being handed code examples to guide him on the way, when he can show how I profit from anything I do here I will step down but if its a contest between who is here to do their best for the community and those who either attack or support the attack of the primary network as Scyre has done in supporting KM's attacks there can be no sense in further heated debate.

Let him be judged on his unwillingness to help the community, I may not always deliver but its not through lack of trying folks.
I challenge Scyre to make a patch himself if he is so concerned with helping the users, lets see what excuses he will come up with if what I have said is BS and he can filter secondary where ourselves and KM cannot do it in open src.

KM will confirm himself folks he has not in any way shape or form handed this site a patch src code, Scyre has not it seems bothered to check his facts, unsuprisingly.

This should be a time for reflection and positive thought folks, as usual those who support selfishness and disruption return to do their best at this time of year, always remember you own MX folks not KM, Sabre, Vladd or myself, treat anyone telling you different with the suspicion and contempt they deserve.

Merry Xmas Scyre and I forgive you your words as those of someone who feels wronged.

[Scyre]

code examples = stolen code from KM  <--that makes a big difference to me

I was not asked to write a peer cache. I was asked to take the stolen source of KM's peer cache server and remove all references to KM from it so as to appear to be an original work of WMW.  so, yes... 100% unwilling you may call me.

"those who either attack or support the attack of the primary network as Scyre has done in supporting KM's attacks " <-- again, I have been a long time supporter of PROTECTING the primary protocol, as you may read in my posts above.

I never claimed that you profit with money.... but you are riding the credit on others' work for which I can only assume must make you feel exaulted in some way.

There is a right way and a wrong way to accomplish things, and when you sacrifice morals and integrity to get somewhere, you migfht as well not have even bothered, for it is your self and soul you also sacrifice.

Stealing and lying are not tools to be used by someone who constantly claims doing the best for the community.

Again, it is not a matter of me sticking to ethics that is the source of your trouble, Ghost. It is your delusions of grandure making claims bigger than you can fulfil.

You make claims of "only 2 programmers left" ... is it because so many in the last year have smelled a rat in you and jumped ship?
You had a lot more supporters before people started asking questions about legitimate things, and you started acting a fool, attacking anyone who would not blindly follow you. I would have thought by now you would have gotten the message that people will NOT be led around by the nose and have a right to think for themselves, and yes, even ask questions.
But, sadly, it seems a leopard cannot change it's spots, and you will continue a campaign of lying to cover your other lies, and to claim how your tireless effort is the reason everyone is still on winmx... Does it really eat you up that much to know that KM was the one who saved winmx, and it wasn't you?
I am just thankful that KM was no longer a kid when you got ahold of him, and he could see the way that you truly were. One thing to know about programmers:
We may not have the perfect social skills, but we are far ahead of the pack in outwitting those who would try to paint us a different color.

I will also tell you something you don't seem to realize about the community:
Users are not stupid, and will not buy all of your crap. Don't be so suprised when people question the double talk you do. And don't attack them for it. That only serves to make the 80% who stay quiet completely aware of how full of bull you are. And they will not forget it. Do you think that people are really so dumb to believe that your big 180degree turn on the open source issue is suddenly because you found some dangers? there are a year's worth of posts that show MANY people telling you just that and you didn't care about it.
All of those quiet people who just read and don't comment see clearly it is because you bit off more than you could chew that suddenly you change your mind, and conjure up excuses.

But I have to say one of the funniest things that caught my attention and showed your true nature was this:
"if its a contest between who is here to do their best for the community and ..."
That's just it. NO IT IS NOT A CONTEST! lmfao. That is the approach you have had in everything you have done. Trying to prove you are the winner of a contest that does NOT exist. None of this is for recognition and fame. This was supposed to all be for the community helping each other, so there were no leaders, no imperial palace, no 1st place ribbons... but somewhere you forgot that.
And it shows.

When you steal someone else's work, that is not in the community spirit. That is in the selfish spirit. And after all, isn't WinMX.... the ENTIRE POINT of WinMX.... to share and NOT be selfish? One thing I will say for KM and I don't care what anyone thinks of it. He did what he could to help, and it wasn't for fame, or notoriety. He wanted out because he didn't like being celebritized where he couldn't just hang out and enjoy things anymore. He donated a lot of money and time for everyone's benefit, not just his. But the moment he disagrees with the ever maddening policies of WMW, you start your attack on his character and try to tear down everything he has done.
No one can deny he did some childish stuff years ago, but the recent things you guys keep bitching about is of a different nature altogether and most people don't blame him for trying to walk away from the drama you have built up around it all. You would be suprised how the majority opinions differ from the ones you see and perpetuate here.

As for me making a patch... Why? I have had my time making patches and have learned about the inner workings, but there is no need for any kind of finished product suitable for the public. One already exists. The one made by KM that you altered. It is working and people are connected.

There would be more use in a new client than a new patch. But I don't think I am gonna take up that task. I have enough things to keep me busy already. (Renovating a huge house's electric, plumbing, roof, walls, painting, etc, plus a new littleone born a week ago... much too busy lol) But I look forward to seeing what you come up with, since you are now saying this is the way WMW is gonna go...   

Sincerely I say Good luck on it and I hope that it can be a product free of stealing or lying and maybe you can redeem yourself from the bad decisions you made this last year. I would like to be able to say in a year "That's a good program, and he took the honest approach this time"
But that is up to you entirely.

And a Merry Christmas to you too.

Be Good

[GhostShip]

As expected Scyre all talk and no patch  :roll:

At least your being honest in stating you refused to help anyone and still do,  it's very noble of you to admit that at least.

[Scyre]

How does someone telling everyone else for months there is a new patch headed their way even have the balls to make that statement?

YOU are the one telling everyone they have this mythical solution coming, and finally start your lies again when you are caught with your pants down...

This thread started with someone asking (rightfully) what the progress was, after hearing nothing for a long time from you on it, only to be put on hold..."I'll tell you this weekend" and then finally you come clean with no other way around admitting you cannot provide what you have been stringing everyone along with.

Go ahead and blame everyone else in the community while you are at it because they don't offer one either.

Funny, how the one person (Ghost) who gets everyone's hopes up, is now blaming someone else.

Simple solution: QUIT LYING AND MAKING BIG CLAIMS

but, then again, you have forged a whole new set of lying to take everyone's attention off of the patch... A mythical new client which will finally solve everyone's every problem. And you will tirelessly suffer to work on new lies and excuses why you won't be able to provide that either in a few months...

As for me refusing to help.... I have a life that demands too much of me to take on a project as big as a new client. I don't have to apologize for that and screw you with a rake sideways if you think otherwise.

YOU are the one refusing to help: "I have all these things, but I cannot release them open source. Sorry Nobby, I feel it would be too dangerous..." Truth is you don't have anything to release or you would have answered some of these people posting asking why not just a temporary unified patch to get everyone together.

People recognize truth. I did not hesitate to speak the truth and give wmw credit for being a good help site and maintaining block lists. I will give credit where it is due. But to want all this undeserved recognition for something you strung the community along with is not gonna happen. Perhaps YOU should be more giving of credit for all the people who have done so much FOR you. I notice you never really give the credit to the 'team of people' you always say are working on so many things. You admit they are there, but it always comes down to YOU talking about how hard YOU work at it all and how YOU suffer for everyone.
The only thing I can say about YOU is that YOU talk alot but YOU don't do the foot work or research on the things that get done.
In my book that is a user of people.
YOU even denied KM proper credit on what he has done. You admit he 'did some fine work' but try to water it down with every other word you speak. Accusing him of attacking the network, when he is the one who brought issues to your attention, and then when you have an arguement with him, you take this information he gives you and start trying to paint him out as a villan who 'seeks the destruction of winmx' instead of rightfully admitting he was the one who informed you.

That is the sort of underhanded tactics that is making everyone question what you are about these days. You have done everything you accused V44's site of doing. Hiding posts, deleting posts, lying to the public. denying freedom of speech and opinion.

You are none better than those you accuse.

Talk less. Do more. Then you can claim all this credit you think everyone is supposed to shower you with.

And don't dare to ever accuse anyone else simply because you talked yourself into something you couldn't deliver on. That's on you buddy. No one else. And it will be the same with a client if you are gonna tell these users you can produce one and you cannot. It will be on you and no one you blame will take the lie out of your mouth for you.

Be Good

[bu44er]

You know thinking about all of this makes alot of sense people have been suggesting ideas that you could have used but they have always got the same response. You put people down and try and make them feel stupid, i for one could not believe i am stupid until the person who is calling as done something or in this case made something better than what i have done.

As for this whole post. Someone asked how the Patch was coming on, no simple answer just cover story's. Ghost i want to believe you my friend because ME HERE vouches for you, how can this be done considering your actions are nill.

As for sensoring and deleting posts. I have personally had this happen to me, it seems as soon as someone asks questions that you do not want to answer they get flamed.

As for KM i know years ago he made Chat Attack and some other mellicious programs that made the network suffer but at least they are gone now. What you are doing is seperating the community into 3 parts people who follow you and your flaming and lies, people who want to help and people who are sick of reading posts like this and really do not know what to do.

You make out you are some kind of god well prove it to us all and do something decent. Why ask sycre to make a Patch, you was going to do that.

Until next time
Speak Soon
Zero_Cool

[chuck]

 Ghost ive seen Nushi's work on NuMX it was a start but as you stated he gave up on it never finished.As for the other programs you speek of they are not being used by many if any and never hit the mark.If they could help you would have already plastered  the forum with them telling all to use them .Ive got many a programs made for winmx archived on old hard drives that are just as useless now as the day they came out.
I said there is not a fully working client that does it all out now or ever was i stand by that.Nushi knows more about winmx than any one i know and he stoped work for what ever reason.

 sorry if i sound mad at you for not makeing one yet that would be as silly as you getting mad at say Scyre for not makeing a patch or server program or any program just becouse you want one made.

Isnt it time to just say you cant delever a new patch or client any time this year and stop all the its becouse of this one or that one BS. Your not the first that let their best wishes for some thing get ahead of his ability to delever. Its the time of the year when people come together and celebrate the holidays and let bygones be bygones. Start a new for a better new year and make New Year resolutions like  Ill not start some thing i cant finish. Or ill not get people worked up over nothing.
Maybe lets all just agree we need to work together to achieve the things we are want for Winmx and as ghost said  no one owns Winmx but us the users.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS
See you all back here next Year im going on HOLIDAY and let you all sort this out.

[GhostShip]

Chuck this will be the second time I have stated this to you please take notice:

I (this site) will not deliver a patch in open src that works on the same principal as KM's, (primary filtering and locked in secondaries).

I can only forgive most posters for not knowing half the time whats being discussed, if they dont know how things work its only fair they wont be able to tell one type of patch from the other, Scyre should Know but it seems does not, earlier on in the thread James made the same mistake, I dont mind answering questions put plainly and fairly but in virtually every case so far I would be having to give the questioner a tutorial on the variant types of patch and the reason we cant go open src on a KM type.

What is suprising me is the amount of people crawling from the woodwork to moan about sticking to a safe path for the networks users to tread, whats important is the network and its future, it really is not a thead to discuss myself or site politics in, dont be diverted so easily.

I believe the reason Nushi stopped work on NuMX is simply to do with Kevin changing the ports/protocols in each release and maybe later on the Winny case, this was big news in Japan and the message was clear. build a p2p client and be responsible for the activities of its users, whilst this is not the case in most countries unless you step over certain lines it seems to have been the case in Japan and sent out a message to those watching developements in the case.

I am 100% sure Nushi could release a client if he was so inclined, having spoken on a few occassions to his friend Drac it was revealed to me that Nushi had moved on some time ago from WinMx coding, it seems other interests take up the 2SN folks time.

I cannot and will not make promises based on misapprehensions posted here, I consult with the coders, they tell me whats happeming and I tell you folks, thats not involving any wishful thinking its merely passing on information I had, I dont claim to be making a patch myself, I do claim to have asked our small team to try and oulined a method to them that could be of use, this is what failed to materialise, the method seems undeliverable and the alternative method is not thought by anyone here to be safe to release in open src.

Zero I have replied to you a few times now and will deliver this simple advice, either read up and learn what the heck your talking about before coming here to play drama queen or dont post here at all, I do not have the entire festive season to waste on people who seem to want to stir drama instead of doing anything positive for the community, making personal attacks against me is a waste of your own time  please take this matter seriously and try to calm yourself down.
 

[Scyre]

So now we have Ghost playing the old 'I forgive you for being too ignorant to understand it all' card again.

Then to try to make KM's work sound questionable:
"I (this site) will not deliver a patch in open src that works on the same principal as KM's"
If he were being accurate he would have written "I CANNOT deliver", instead of making it appear that he could but chooses not to.

I understand full well the situation, so there is no need to try to make me appear ignorant of the facts. Far from it, I am not ignorant enough to fall for your double talk excuses.

Trying to talk above everyone doesn't make people feel beneath you. On the contrary, it makes people wonder why you insult their intelligence with your statements.

I think Chuck had it right. It is time to admit you cannot produce anything at this point and not make excuses or blame. And the old " I can't give you an answer without having to educate you" routine is wearing thin and is insulting to everyone reading.

And I disagree with the discussing of site politics in this thread. It is because of the politics that these people cannot get a straight answer from you. If you spent less time dodging the truth, a lot of these questions could have been answered in the first couple of response posts from you in this thread.

It would have been much better to just say "We can't do it. Sorry." Then to start on an attack spree to put it off on everyone else. It would have been more respectful to the readers here, and shown some sense of honor on your part.

And I guarantee you that at least 10 people were offended by the accusation of crawling out of the woodwork moaning, just because they are expressing their opinions and concerns. Good way to keep a healthy following! Attack those who raise issues.

You may be right about Nushi's motivations. Winny was a big deal in Japan, and the legal cases that stemmed from it's coding and release really put a big notice up for the programmers in that country. That may have made Nushi think a little about it. No one can really say for sure. I will agree with you there, that he could probably code a client if he chose to. I had hoped either he or KM would have created something as a replacement for winmx itself, but I guess they have other things on their plates too.

And Zero doesn't seem to be as ill informed as you try to make him out to be. He asked legitimate questions, but was attacked from the start. That is not fair to him and others who feel like he does.

What was once a very diplomatic site has become a place where asking too much gets your tongue cut out. It shouldn't be that way.

Zero, I say ask what you need to know. And that is for anyone else too. If enough people post their questions, they will eventually have to be answered.

Be Good

[bu44er]

Ghostship i really i wish you could read what you are posting because i know i do. Scyre is totally right you be little everyone else so you look better. I think it is you who needs to be educated on how to speak to people.

You seem to ignore everything anyone says if it is not something you want to hear. You have not got time for insults and by that you mean you lie, you cheat, you be little people. How old are you your acting like JOSH AKA Snip.

.This is going to be my final post on this beyond the point totally irrelevant post charade. I am now only going to post when i have something worth mentioning and i will only post when i have researched the subject 100 percent.

Ghostship i thought you was better than this, i was wrong you really disappoint me.

[GhostShip]

Feel better now Scyre ?

It really must be a miserable time over on KM's forum that you have nothing better to do than come here to attack me, you the same guy who does nothing for anyone and yet speaks as if he is willing to but .... (insert excuses here )  

You have at least brought a smile to my face.

Zero I do encourage sensible discussion, what was proving a distraction in your posts is the constant stream of minor allegations based on who knows what, lets park those at the door and get down to realistic matters, this is a winmx support site and posts should contain some reference to such subjects, stick to that and you will always obtain an answer to your query, put yourself in the boots of others, if they came on your site to attack you and called you a liar would you let them continue without making the rules of civility clear to them ?

Scyre has his own reasons to attack me, they have nothing to do with winmx or a patch, dont be distracted, the truth of everything is posted on the site for anyone looking through the older threads to see, read and learn and then I,m sure we shall be able to communicate in a more constructive manner.

[bu44er]

The reason i said i would not post here until i knew about what i was posting about, was sole because it as been made more than obvious in this post and many others that there are personal problems between Ghostship (You), Scyre, KM and many others. As i do not know about these issues i would like not to get involved in them.

I have one idea that i would like you to do and it should be easy for most of you. Make a DUMMIES guide to the WPN and the WinMx Protocol. This would help people like me who know bits and bobs but do not know any more.

You have got to admit Ghost that the best thing i have said up to yet.

Please do that for me and others to help.

[GhostShip]

It shall be done Zero    The new site will have all you require in that sphere and more, I dont expect to be here forever and its important to me to pass on all I can of the information I have compiled from my own research, this will of course benefit us all and save me some headaches into the bargain in terms of becoming frustrated with users not understanding, thanks for keeping the request clear and simple Zero 

[bu44er]

It's ok Ghost i just thought people would agree. How long do you think the site will be and could i have a sneak peak lol. If you want any help making the website please could i help i love coding HTML and designing websites is a strong point of mine.

[tig]

Zero_cool when you get time please IM me and we can organise a few things to regarding web site stuff that we are needing.

And thankyou for offering and I will take you up on that offer.

[Scyre]

Actually, after seeing the last few posts, now I DO Feel better.
You are using a civil approach and behold what a difference it made in the thread. That's the way things used to be around here.

One thing I would like to clear up for you though. I don't know why you think me and KM are buddy buddy but I have not spoke to him in a couple months, and only visited his forum when it first opened to take a peek at it. Other than that, dunno what he does, and I don't work with him on anything.

You of all people should know I am a loner. I have a lot of friends on MX but I am not part of any group or click. I am completely independant, and like to stay that way.

My only motivations are to see that someone like Zero, and some of the others who asked about status are treated fairly, and given answers without being attacked. I don't know Zero, but he comes across as a genuine person really wanting to help where he can, and that sort of person should be noticed.

nuff sed

Be Good

[tig]

Scyre if you have seen my post before you put this one up. You will see I have asked zero to im me. Please read before you make judgements.

I have noticed him and will do something about it myself.