How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ?

[GhostShip]

It seems to me that you have missed the point totally with what we have set out to do, sure we could do everything and have had the job done in a small time but then would come ppl making ridiculous claims and spouting nonsense as has occurred before when we asked folks to trust us, simply asking for trust does not work it has to be build up on good faith commitments and actions, this time around we are going as slow as necessary to ensure we are working alongside a team of fully trained partners, not poor relations but fully functional partners and that they know and take their role in the community as well as we do.

I take umbrage at your claims that we are leaving people hanging unnecessarily, we have given solid commitments to the pie info team and will honour those that we have not already carried out, despite the clear slant your putting on this activity its progressing well and much has been already achieved that has benefitted the pie info team and all at no cost or price to themselves save their promise to help clear the network of attackers, if you think we are the bad folks here then I suggest you should look a little further and tell me just who it is that has gotten half the networks primaries accessible to the attackers and who has spend much time effort and sweat trying to clean up the mess, once again a mess not of our making. 

I care little for sabres fears when he has been aiding WinMX attackers for over 4 years and counting.

[Bluey_412]

and i'm standing here wanting to help and wondering what is goin on...
i offered a PC to do patch testing and then nothing more heard...

and there IS public exposure, i see a room in the lists: WinMx4U Help Room, and an interesting and encouraging topic line...

All is good!

[Lagerlout666]

Mxpie.info team already have everything they need to set up. But they are building a site and creating their own things, we have a private room set up where they can ask questions and they are beavering away. Im not blaming them for wanting to take their time to make sure everything is right, as quicks said we have waited 4 1/2 years for this day. So a month for them to train and learn its operations is all good.It is not as easy as you all think, many of us have poured countless hours into its operation, caches run better on diffrent setup's requiring config modification, and some servers just cant handle update bar traffic and apache and the servers themselves crash like mad. All this takes time to modify and test, its far from 30 minutes and go. Nylly and myself could prob get something half done in that time. But someone never done it before i dont think so lol. I also didnt help with going missing for over week and i wrote the patch installers. So everyone was looking for me for that information and i wasnt here. But seen as my GF is 9 months preggers and had problems winmx wasnt really top priority.

We are all just normal people, familys and we work. This place isnt my job, im not forced to be here all day every day nor is anyone else. We all excepted that from each along time ago, we do what we can do and its amazing to see what comes together when the shit hits the fan. All we have asked for is a little patience, as at the end of the day the one ting we really needed doing, which was make sabre realise he is wrong, has happened. An we must support the people who have walked how ever long it takes.

[Joshua203]

well Ghostship the new attitude is taking a fast turn again ..it looks to me like you allready back on that high arrogant horse of yours.. i ld loose the sig you use  cause it s starting to grow on you

you now try to turn the table by saying i m undermining this with a clear slant?? hehehe

i wonder .. do you really want me to open the book of my thoughts and guesses? cause yes i ll admit that!!.. i m only guessing, thats what i have to deal with since you can tell any story and twist and turn for ages

i m leaving ghost BEFORE you start banning and i wish you luck teaching the new bunch how to keep shut about their new datamining tools they have to be edjucated to use

Ghost goodluck putting everyone down and draging peeps through the mud that arennt even around anymore to defend themselves while padding yourself on the back for being such a good cleaning lady

Bluey SHUT IT before you get a brown tongue

Goodbye

[Lagerlout666]

Datamining, nobody here runs any data mining, and joshua i think it best you do go, as what you are sayig is nothing but bullshit.

[Bluey_412]

shame he wasnt in on the process from the start, as i have been, more than many may realise...

[Pri]

well Ghostship the new attitude is taking a fast turn again ..it looks to me like you allready back on that high arrogant horse of yours.. i ld loose the sig you use  cause it s starting to grow on you

I don't know what is with you. Sometimes you post valuable contributions and other times you just stab wildly at other posters. I think you need to remember a few things.

1. We are all volunteers, we are doing this in our spare time. No one is making money out of this. Progress is thus slow.

2. We are giving ex-Pie staff new Cache software and Patches and they are starting from scratch, they want to build an infrastructure around these new tools that will mean they can host the caches reliably and offer the patch from a well formulated and easy to use website which is clear about where users can receive support.

3. There is no rush. As I already said previously Sabre has decided to continue hosting his MXPie caches on his own, he will also continue to run his website. Regardless of what we do now doesn't affect that situation. We can only hope that he will decide to join the community patch or close down his operations. What we are doing now with his ex-staff is tantamount to setting up another distribution arm of the Community Patching initiative. One that will be trustworthy, competent and operated independently from us. This is not about 'Control' this is about keeping the network safe and operational for years to come with a good foundation of a few separate groups working together but independently for a common goal. Standardizing the tools in use is just a smart thing to do.

And yes we want all current operators of WinMX Caches to use the Community Cache server software and the Community Patch. Not because in our opinion it is the best. But because factually it is the safest. It has built in IP Blocking and we have dedicated users on the network that are monitoring for new attacks (unusual repeated searches, ranges of IP's performing similar searches and so on) which we can then block via the patch. The MXPie Patch is great in that it gets you connected. But beyond that it's not that great. Just a basic IP redirection would have been fine in 2005. But now that the Anti-P2P companies are rolling around suing people on little evidence, doing mass lawsuits with thousands of unnamed John Does we require more from our patches.

What is happening here is important. Be patient.

[GhostShip]

Joshua I ask you openly to stay and ask questions that cause you any concerns as you have been doing, you will not be banned for doing so.

I do understand that you dont like my style of putting the facts across but lets be fair I did ask you to show when I had messed up and cost the userbase anything, you have not sone so, the people I named have done things that have resulted in the loss of users over time and that disappoints me, I would be a truly bad person if I wasnt honest about how I feel dont you agree ?

I like to think that there is trust between users of winmx and those who run the support infrastructure, when I read your posts it seems that you didnt have that trust for whatever reason, I cant demand you have it but please look again at why your getting annoyed, I have given a public pledge to support pie info team and I once again state here I will keep my pledge, what more are you actually asking of us as its not clear from your posts that we have done anything wrong yet and surely we should be judged on what acheive rather than simply responding to questions regarding what we may or may not do.

Btw I hope you have noticed many other folks have been posting here besides myself and they are all hard at work trying to get this operation complete, this isnt a personal matter its something we all want done and done in the best way possible for all , Pri, B;uey and Tiny all posted to deliver extra information for those wanting to understand whats going on surely you can see with so many folks working on something that there is a positive will amongst them all to acheive it.

I wont pretend your my favourite questioner Joshua but please continue to post here, this is a time we should all pull together not a time we fall out because we are frustrated and impatient for progress.

 

[White Stripes]

many here have been waiting 4 1/2 years to see it happen.

...and from the point of view of a user stuck in the slow (secondary) lane... its been a looooong 4 1/2 years...

erm... didnt mean to stirr a hornets nest on this one but the cartel datamining (thats going on - on this network as well) has already lead to 2 suits on other networks using little more than the search (to find) and browse (pile of 'evidence') functions of those clients... the articles are on zeropaid but i dunno the exact link... suffice it to say its a bit... unnerving...

[GhostShip]

I agree with you in that we all should take the data mining issue seriously, it was after all what got me annoyed enough to start rattling a few doors and windows to sound the alarm and set projects on higher gear in the hope they would be ready when we need them, we are working on a few projects atm that we hope will offer long term benefit but as you already guessed none are ready yet for deployment and so we can only do what we can to secure the network in the alternative way, by ridding it of primaries that operate in an insecure/unblocking way, education and upgrading are the tools of the day and we can all take the task up to aid in this.

[wonderer]

If I remember well, 4 1/2 years ago the filtering was mainly based on preventing fake files search results and not the only just appeared dangers of datamining, so Gemini's decission was in the views of that time not that bad. Things have changed a lot and had she know then what we know now, only Gemini can tell if she had done the same.

I rest my case

[Blitzen]

I can kind of understand Joshuas frustration in being told there was major security problem with data minning on winmx and needed urgent attention but a month or so on and the hole has not been plugged, maybe it is the case they are hoping now Sabre appears to be on his own running his caches etc that he may pack up shop rather than having a new patch developed for the pie.info team. Then again maybe it is as has been stated above who knows only more time will tell........  Regulars on this site should be well hardened to promises being made and them never appearing as in the case of Ghostships winmx replacement client he was making that was going to be ready in 2 years and that was 4 years ago lol

[GhostShip]

Your free to make fun of those making an effort Blitzen but please remember when folks ask you what you have been doing to help it surely will help to have something in the credit column.

I don't believe it was 4 years ago btw I think it was more 2008 time I got started on actually making something and learning programming, at that time I set up a WinMX network based development site that lost its host so I transferred the info we had created to a sub domain here and then as we needed the domain for other purposes I decided to simply have a forum section that links to web pages, there are about 25 members of that group and I try to deliver on research and write new material when time allows to help get others up to speed on how things work, as to the client project I am still working on the situation is pretty clear, as a novice coder I had to learn to crawl before I could walk and have been working on various code modules in stops and starts, but I do have something to show for my time as many in the community who have seen the test versions will I hope confirm, I wont claim its fully finished or working enough for even an alpha release but it is coming along and will continue until I get something that delivers to my standards and yours.

A one man development team is never going to be the way ahead but with no other project in hand I have plenty of time and drive to keep this one going and I hope you will feel ashamed when I do deliver, in lieu of knowledge I have time ,and while I have time it will be used to create something to pass on to those in the future who wish to continue using the network safely and securely.

[RebelMX]

A one man development is the most likely production of a new client to be honest.
How many times have we heard "groups" claiming to be developing programs for winmx?  So far as i know the only group to have done so was MXControl (which was originally mainly Bender) all other have been individuals, even down to chat servers!
FX = Fede
ES = Eagle
WCS = KM
ZCS = Zenar
---
RoboMX = MXControl aka Bender
WPCC = Emulator
---
WCB = KM
ZCB = Zenar
Metis = MXControl aka Bender

I rest my case.

@GhostShip:
I would be interested in knowing which language you are writing it in, and how far along you have gotten.  I too have begun projects including basic chat clients, perhaps a general discussion thread and/or private may or may not assist both parties and others?

[GhostShip]

That was the purpose of the "Core" development section RebelMX, I haven't added you to it yet because I believe you may be someone currently banned from the site, if that is the case can you confirm it to me in a site PM as we can still offer some support as long as its for the benefit of WinMX users in the long run and I truly dont think any ban should last longer than it takes for the banned person to see what is and is not acceptable here.

If your not the person I think you are then my apologies but please PM me and we can discuss matters directly.


 

[Bieb]

A one man development is the most likely production of a new client to be honest.
How many times have we heard "groups" claiming to be developing programs for winmx?  So far as i know the only group to have done so was MXControl (which was originally mainly Bender) all other have been individuals, even down to chat servers!
FX = Fede
ES = Eagle
WCS = KM
ZCS = Zenar
---
RoboMX = MXControl aka Bender
WPCC = Emulator
---
WCB = KM
ZCB = Zenar
Metis = MXControl aka Bender

I rest my case.

@GhostShip:
I would be interested in knowing which language you are writing it in, and how far along you have gotten.  I too have begun projects including basic chat clients, perhaps a general discussion thread and/or private may or may not assist both parties and others?

Also keep in the mind that chat servers and chat clients are not real difficult to make. Seeing as how the majority of chat servers still use nushi-kmmodded channel listing code it's really just cut and glue to how you want it then customize more on top of that.

A full replacement client is just more complex and is a mother load for one person to take on which is probably why so many people have started and then stopped. It's simply too much for one person to handle all at once.  And group projects really never work out in my opinion.

[GhostShip]

They should work out but I  made a decision early on to only use folks talents as and when they offered them, I still feel the same way today, what right do I have to ask folks to give away their time (and code) for nothing ?

I could have gotten a lot more done by harassing the coders we know of thats for certain but no one put me in charge and I never forget that, offers to help are always welcome but they must be voluntary and genuine, only by sticking to this rule have we been able to work with many excellent coders who know their efforts are much valued and will benefit the whole community, by volunteering their efforts they have signalled to us that they are focused and ready to help and that really is the best kind of coder to have working on any project.

I know it may sound a bit funny that I,m saying I am not someone who has authority in this matter however I ask you all to remember something that I never forget,  we are primarily a winmx support site and one of many, so whilst we do try to guide the community with security related issues its not our goal to take over all of the WPN and also why we want as many partners as we can get to keep the community alive and vibrant and productively utilising any pooled resources effectively. Creating a client without extra community input will I have no doubt cause further mistrust, fighting and drama but I hope that will die down when its seen that we are willing to share our efforts, thats what we do best on this network and I hope to keep that tradition going for as long as possible.   

[nylly444]

Unrelated posts split to new topic here

[Joshua203]

well anyone can see i m back after a cooling period, i can only apologise to the way i said some stuff ..not what i meant by it

about my datamining remark.. well in my mind datamining means gathering info.. nothing more nothing less, so i was not saying you were doing bad things with the gathered info

GS ..i m sorry for loosing my temper and for trying to hit you below the belt but i don t like to have to ask silly questions that people don t really wanna answer anyway, on top of that real life is not verry kind to me too ...but thats a lame excuse 

[Max™]

Welcome back Josh,
we all say things we shouldn't, i've said a few myself, i've quit being here before, yet came back,
letting off steam, having a rant, whatever we call it, it's always been done and always will be,
at the end of they day we are here helping each other in whatever way we can,
different people with different knowledge, same result, we keep winmx alive and kicking, keep people connected.