Attacks on Vladd - Call For Common Sense !!!

[Me Here]

Users here need to accept there are MANY users for a multitude of reasons cannot, will not, or simply choose not to use the .dll, the Pie auto updater will do a very sensible job of protecting those users and cleaning up the network, if its allowed to do so, if it is not, the network will suffer and that would be a shame.

Your definition of 'sensible' could use a bit of work..

Basically its not been updated since Oct 4th, 06 is that sensible?

Innocent IPs listed - Yes folks potential users like yourself that are permanently blocked now because at one time the IPs where used dynamically and I guess like Blue Tack once an IP goes on it never comes off this list either.  Is this the sensible part?

MVSN-verizon        :141.149.62.127-141.149.62.127
MVSN-verizon        :141.149.62.198-141.149.62.198
MVSN-verizon        :141.149.62.253-141.149.62.253
MVSN-verizon        :141.149.63.223-141.149.63.223
MVSN-verizon        :141.149.63.226-141.149.63.226
MVSN-verizon        :141.149.63.238-141.149.63.238
MVSN-verizon        :141.149.63.26-141.149.63.26
MVSN-verizon        :141.149.63.37-141.149.63.37
MVSN-verizon        :162.84.175.115-162.84.175.115
MVSN-verizon        :162.84.175.168-162.84.175.168
MVSN-verizon        :162.84.175.217-162.84.175.217
MVSN-DSL.net        :64.145.117.226-64.145.117.226
MVSN-Covad          :66.134.249.227-66.134.249.227
MVSN-Covad          :67.101.77.191-67.101.77.191
MVSN-bellsouth      :68.219.93.80-68.219.93.80
MVSN-bellsouth      :68.223.116.193-68.223.116.193
MVSN-bellsouth      :68.223.117.10-68.223.117.10
MVSN-bellsouth      :68.223.117.175-68.223.117.175
MVSN-Covad          :69.3.33.203-69.3.33.203
MVSN-Sympatico      :70.51.123.154-70.51.123.154
MVSN-Sympatico      :70.51.124.92-70.51.124.92
MVSN-Sympatico      :70.51.158.184-70.51.158.184
MVSN-verizon        :71.247.100.150-71.247.100.150
MVSN-bellsouth      :72.145.81.159-72.145.81.159
MVSN-btcentral      :81.151.253.162-81.151.253.162
MVSN-btcentral      :81.157.11.46-81.157.11.46
MVSN-btcentral      :81.158.250.110-81.158.250.110
MVSN-BTCentral      :81.158.250.176-81.158.250.176
MVSN-BTCentral.     :81.158.253.161-81.158.253.161
MVSN-Pipex          :81.179.122.5-81.179.122.5
MVSN-pipex          :81.179.88.68-81.179.88.68
MVSN-btcentral      :86.132.104.184-86.132.104.184
MVSN-BTCentral      :86.136.243.160-86.136.243.160
MVSN-BTCentral      :86.137.147.10-86.137.147.10
MVSN-BTCentral      :86.140.235.0-86.140.235.0
MVSN-btcentral      :86.142.39.167-86.142.39.167
MVSN-tiscali        :88.111.184.101-88.111.184.101

IPs not listed at all flooding since Oct 4th .. is this the sensible protection bit?

MVSN-verizon        :70.23.233.180-70.23.233.180
MVSN-verizon        :151.202.92.87-151.202.92.87
MVSN-verison       :151.202.95.254-151.202.95.254

Well Neutron, as you well know from our private discussion, there is a simple reason why i have kicked a certain group from V44, it is because at least 14 users here voted for "action" the resulting "action" took out my web server and 9 of my unrelated sites, my response was simply that of any person who is attacked defended myself as best i could,...Any of those folks could have posted to say they condemed the attacks on me, none did.

1.) gota love those 'private discussions' you elude to holding such credence all the time...
2.) Lets see.. you claim someone was carrying out a DDOS attack (of which you cant provide proof of, again) and you redirected said attack to your very own 9 servers of unrelated sites.. so you had to defend yourself against an attack you basically directed at yourself on purpose?
Maybe you should have posted to say you condemned the attacks you held on yourself.. if there was an attack, which i find hard to believe any sensible person would redirect one on themselves knowingly..

Ofc not, as the patch does not currently use the WmW blocklist.

Bluetack has been stealing IPs from our list and you've been stealing them from there.. so yer.. why credit us when you know full well from your 'private discussions' with me that those numbers come from our lists.. lol I should be thanking you for not crediting us since you're using out of date lists and blocking real users with it. Thanks Nobby for not mentioning us.. Because i wouldn't want our block teams names on this excuse for a list..

Well the site owner has heard on the grapevine whats going down, thats a pretty good start wouldnt u say? U should perhaps check with him.

I think I know the site owners pretty well.. and as far as I know you are this grapevine .. so maybe you should fill us in....

I would happily use the WmW blocklist, and have discussed this with Ghost, however recent circumstances have made that goal tough to achieve as its not my direct call what blocklist is used.

The point should actually be (if you really cared) 'an accurate block list'  regardless of where it comes from..

You folks can go right ahead and continue to insult me in your usual futile manner, this thread is about attacks on Vladds site, these attacks, make no mistake are loosing more Winmx users by the day. As for pics of site pages, DNS redirects, host server changes and any other BS km chooses to make up etc etc, WOW how odd a site owner tries a variety of options to get his site back online, including scripts, server changes and various testing with and without 3rd party companies in an attempt to resolve the ongoing action against the site, perhaps u folks would just give up and bend over? I somehow doubt vladd will do so, he will find a way to resolve the issue and i would guess he will leave no stone unturned.

So lets see this is a good one.. insult you?  You haven't said hardly two words since you were unbanned (by me i might add) that were not insinuating and insulting.  We are not losing users daily because Vladd44 site is unavailable.. and again with the insults aimed at the man that asked for you to be unbanned in order I might add to talk about your patch, not to come here insulting me about the mighty sites being off line and insinuate whose responsible.. Mostly I dont care if they are offline until tomorrow.. or forever, I have no reason to believe that they are offline for any other reason then you have taken them offline yourselves.. after all you did allegedly redirect an attack to yourself did you not.. does that sound to you like the work of someone being attacked?

And finally since i stay away from these threads until i just cant.. here's a reply and tid bit from another thread ..

]KM, the fact my account has been unbanned and the site owner telling me so, would support the fact i am not currently banned, if you wish to "further" investigate this, i suggest you discuss it with Ghost, my posts were factual right up to the point you messed with my account profile and then banned me. If Ghost wishes to ban me i will accept it, as i have in the past (even though i felt it unjust) you however are just upset i do not simply bend over and subscribe to the "i love km" fan club.

Your account was banned after several complaints about you and your posts, because you choose to use this site as your personal attack platform.  That complaint box is filling again.  Ghost has held a promise made to you to allow you to 'discuss in public' your new patch.  I have seen nothing that even resembles this, only insults.. accusations.. insinuations and rudeness aimed even at him, the man that allowed you to come here again.  And dont even get me started about 'unjust' bans.. because its a matter of public record that due to our not being a 'Team' player we were all banned for questioning your technical information, then I was banned on Vladds site and in my 'private discussion' with him was told flat out it had no merit or reason.. just because he could.. and we also didnt go around posting as 'Not Me Here' and 'Mad at the world Me Here' to get around it either..

So in keeping with the long yawn of these types of posts I have kept my end..   In short let me just say that if you continue to use this as your personal attack platform for one more insult, insinuation or accusation.. your gone.  You got to admit at least your getting a warning.. more than you gave me.

[KM]

of course if vladd were really being attacked then he could well ask for my help, see if I am able to help out... considering the winmxgroup and winmxworld sites have both been attacked several times with large attacks and only ever gone offline due to technical issues (servers crashing mostly... typical isn't it? handles a huge attack no problem, then someone trips over a cable...)

for example I could provide a server that can absorb the attack for him... how nice of me

but of course considering vladd has likely taken his site offline on purpose, or in the unlikely event he didn't then he is at least enjoying being offline... i somehow doubt he would want anyone to help get it back online, least of all me

[BUGHUNTER]

ROFL................no winmx user who is using the dll is leaving and going to pie because of the imaginary attacks on the vladd website..............the only ppl leaving vladds patch are going to sabers patch due to the consistant lies accusations and of course scams perpertrated by vladd and co to scam money from users for nothing else then vladds bank balance..................
not one dll user has left and gone to pie because of these fictious attacks...........................
and lets be perfectly clear about one thing neither pie patch works................end of story..................
even with winmxworlds blocklist secondry users on pie get zero protection...............
primary users on pie get a very small amount of protection, and thats it......................
it is a lie for pie to make any claim that they are offering any form of protection......................
the only patch that works is the dll, and by far and away winmx users have choosen the dll over pie simply because it works...............
pie patch with what ever blocklist does not protect you the user from ip harvesting by riaa , does nothing about fakes, does nothing about udp dos attacks and does nothing about denial of service.....................
so what protection is it you claim nobby that pie is protecting ?..................the only thing pie is protecting is riaas access to this network.......
pie as a solution is finished, users know pie is a failure and that the pie maggots are nothing more then scammers and liars................
even nobby has admitted hes a self confessed liar and a supporter of scams aimed at unsuspecting winmx users...............
if you like nobby i can easily get camille to post here and show the depths of the lies and deciet that has been pie..................
choice is yours....................
and as for this constant accusation that the vladd website is under attack .............PROVE IT........................
DESPITE MANY REQUESTS FOR YOU TO PROVE YOUR ACCUSATION NOT ONCE HAVE YOU PROVIDED A SINGLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT THE VLADD WEBSITE IS UNDER ATTACK BY ANY BODY LET ALONE KM OR PPL ASSOCIATED WITH WINMXWORLD....................
your a liar nobby plain and simple........................

[bughunter]

as a follow up to why nobby is allowed once again to post here, is because it gives him a opportunity to discuss his new patch..............well im still waiting on this new patch................
pg2 lite isnt new and neither is blocktards block list..........................both are old ,dont perform and in the case of the blocktards block list its at least 9 months out of date, in fact it contains more legitimate user ips then it does riaa flooder ips..................
so in light of all this i ask that nobby be once again banned from this forum untill he actually produces a NEW  patch, and not a rehash of a failed connection and blocking solution...........and secondly that he sticks to the agreement made with quicks that he be allowed to promote the coughbullshitcough patch/blocking solution.......................and doesnt instead turn any opportunity to post here into his personnal attack on km and winmxworld wioth baseless slanderous and totally false accusations that they the pie maggots are under attack, as they arenot.....................for if they were they would provide evidence of this attack..................and not the word of a self confessed liar and scam supporter.................................

[ñòóKýçrÕôK]

i reserve the right to remove any user from that channel that i feel support the actions taken against me or make it publically known their contempt for said channel and its users, it is my right in that channel to do so, it is ofc also the right of all the others in that channel to excerise the same powers.

What you reserve, and I'm betting with great anticipation is the right to be a lieing asshole. You know noone attacked you. Noone has attacked Vladd. Noone from this camp has attacked anyone from that camp. Do you even feel slightly subconcious about posting on this forum, accusing it's users of mallicious bullshit, and then having what must be balls the size of coconuts to slam everyone here? It's disgusting and it's getting old. Like I said, up to me you'ld no longer be allowed to post here. Wouldn't it seem sort of stupid from anyone in this camp to even think about messing with anyone in that camp? Everyone in this camp knows that because you will spread lie upon lie to make anyone in this camp look guilty they have no choise really but to come out and be choir boys to keep any heat from liars and haters like you. And you still didn't answer my question. 1 thing about you that will not change in 5 minutes that is the truth. Not the truth according to Nobber, but the real truth. You do still know what that is right?

[ñòóKýçrÕôK]

and let me just add that it is only by the good graces of Me_Here you're still allowed to post here. It'd take a week, some surgeory, and a chiropratcer to dig my foot out of your ass otherwise.

[..Ñøßߥ..]

Nobby I posted those pictures to show that there is activity on Vladds site and that the fact I,m able to see this activity shows the site is not currently under attack.

I am disappointed you are attempting to abuse my efforts to clear up this issue, perhaps you feel myself raising the issue here of helping a site that many started out on winmx with is weakness ?

Posting those pictures shows 1 thing and 1 thing only, the site was not under attack at that specific moment, i welcome any attempt to clear up this issue, but dont confuse a relatively small time period where a picture was available with a resolution to the situation, it is not.

Well I had the idea that with the hurdle of blocking agreed upon Chuck that matters would resolve themselves as that was the original wedge driven between us by the pie teams poor tech advice given to them by Sabre.

Its become crystal clear to me that some effort is still required to clear up the unprotected host file mess and that some of us have to alert the community of possible ways forward, I hope none of you here are offended by me trying to at least make a effort to resolve differences where possible.

Much of the work to ensure hosts file users are blocking, would be easily taken care of if the 2 main communication platforms for said users had not be DDOS'ed, resolve this issue and the evidence shows the hosts file users were updating to the blocking solution in their droves, fail to resolve this issue and more and more will head to the unprotected .info for their updates & help etc, leaving further and growing mess to clean up. I suspect the issue will have to be resolved legally.

Well the site owner has heard on the grapevine whats going down, thats a pretty good start wouldnt u say? U should perhaps check with him.

I think I know the site owners pretty well.. and as far as I know you are this grapevine .. so maybe you should fill us in....

Ghost had indicated to me privatly the status of one of the DDOS attacks, he confirmed this was via the "grapevine" out of respect for his privacy i wont post the log, and i suggest mehere, you check your facts b4 suggesting i am a liar. Further to this, i have privatly discussed with Ghost the reason the new patch is not yet using the WmW as intended, certain assurances have been given, and i have passed on Ghosts kind assurances to the relavant person, i can do no more than that, as the matter is not in my control, so please dont waste your time firing your complaints to me, my pledge was to get something available to hosts file users, i have done that. It was not possible for me to predict the DDOS attacks on the distribution platforms, if you wish to discuss the details of the issue with me in private i would be more than happy to, but for reasons that would be quite clear during those talks i cannot discuss them publically. I have already had this discussion with Ghost and another member of the WmW team, who understands the difficulty of the issue very clearly during a very amicable discussion, if only a few ore from here had that users awareness.

of course if vladd were really being attacked then he could well ask for my help, see if I am able to help out.

KM, it wasnt such a long time after your last offer of "help" that "action" you promised was taken against the mxpie site, "action" that resulted in delays to the project you had offered your "help" with in the first place, so it wont take a rocket scientist to figure out vladd is unlikely to ask you for any of your brand of "help".

So in keeping with the long yawn of these types of posts I have kept my end..   In short let me just say that if you continue to use this as your personal attack platform for one more insult, insinuation or accusation.. your gone.  You got to admit at least your getting a warning.. more than you gave me.

ROFL.... you gotta be joking right? Have you ever read one of Bughunters posts? He throws more insults at me in 1 post than i have in all my damn posts together, so will he be banned also? I have seen him warned several times. Perhaps u need me to post all of bugs insults at me for you to review, not to mention the lies and libelous remarks he has made at others.

Just for the record, you were not banned from any forum by me, you had stated you would no longer be posting in the pie forum on Gems, as you had made this clear yourself, seemed no reason for you to have access to that small private part of the main forum, i did  not ban you from anything. Also, i have not banned you, km, ghost or any of the other major WmW players from vladds to insinuate otherwise is totally incorrect, for the record i have only ever banned 1 user from there, and that was part of a joke.

The bottom line is, many people don't and will not for a whole variety of reasons use kms patch, further more, many will not even block and do not even as a bare minimum use PG2, with that in mind, i set about sorting out a patch that would cover these ppl, i hired a programmer (vladd ended up paying) and got him to write a simple updater that deals with this problem gap in the market, bundled with PGlite, and running from the WmW blocklist it will ensure non .dll users are protected. The operations and running of this patch is not down to me, and recent circumstances have made it increasingly difficult to operate as it was intended.  I do not expect much in the way of support from this site or its users, in fact you will ofc note, i have NOT tried to cover this site in URL's to the pie patch, i wouldnt do such a thing out of basic respect, something many of you here are unable to grasp and unable to apply to others and others sites. As i will not advertise the pie auto updater here, and the vast majority of folks here are incapable of debate on any level only attack, i will bid you all good day, i will thank Ghost for the opportunity. If users that are incapable or unwilling to use the .dll they are ofc more than welcome to use the Pie auto updater, i will leave it to individuals here if they wish to pass on that offer to the users.

I hope there will be a speedy end to the DDOS attacks, and that those resposible are caught and are held accountable for their actions and further more are unvieled to the Winmx community for the scum they are. I hope it is simply a misguided anti pie idiot rather than a more serious threat to the community as a whole, better the devil you know right?

[GhostShip]

i did  not ban you from anything

I suggest Nobby that you rethink this statement as the facts are in the public domian that you did indeed ban Me_Here and KM as well as myself, when we where having words with vladd on his site, something confirmed by vladd himself, to try to claim otherwise will only make you look foolish as many are fully aware you where the person in charge of the special private section that you set up to aid co-operation but was in fact abused to try to force others like ourselves to "rubber stamp" poor and lame decisions, something we continue to refuse to do.

Lets be honest here, you and the rest of the community of winmx are in no doubt at all that we have been justified in the majority of our claims and thats all that matters to me as they where made to protect and defend the users from disinformation that is continuing to this day.

I will take up one more point that you allude to here, neither I nor Me_here have made any attempt to spam vladds site with links that should already be there to offer a choice to the users, this has been more telling than anything you have said on the matter, folks you are always free to choose patch and thats why I wished you Nobby to post here, we do not intend to hide, cheat or steal this choice from them like many sites and groups are choosing to do, I hope that signifies our intentions, actions rather than words are more to the flavour of us all I believe.

I had wished to make more use of Nobbys patch by offering a link etc but if Its not confirmed that it will be blocking the flooders it is no longer something I can suggest is used.

I think the blocking resolution and the claims of site attacks are in the hands of vladd, we will wait on him to take the correct action in either arranging for an up to date list to be used or making contact with the anti flooding team to secure the knowledge he needs to keep his own list up to date, lets hope he puts the users before his pride and take one or the other of these courses of action.
There is no shame in helping the users protect themselves vladd.

I understand you have other more important matters at this time Nobby and I agree they are more important, take care and good luck.

[bughunter]

unfortunately nobby no i wont be banned because unlike you im not a self confessed liar....................
unlike you i dont support the scamming of winmx users..................
unlike you i dont decieve users into thinking that by running pie there protected, which there not.................
unlike you i dont deny users information to and about the only real patch /blocking solution the dll.................
unlike you i dont go round running my mouth off that websites are being attacked, when there not, and futher not supplying a single shred of evidence to support my accusations....................
unlike you i dont attack the creditabilty of the only person who has almost single handily kept winmx afloat, again without providing any evidence to support your assertions that the dll has back doors etc etc etc .................
unlike you i havent engaged in the single biggest attack this network has faced, i dont offer riaa any method of connection which is then used to flood other users off line, that there searches are full of fakes, and that legitamate users are denied connection because the patch i promote allows riaa bots to connect and take up all avalable slots on primary connections thus denying service.............
unlike you i dont hide, lie ,deny, and decieve users that all of the above is only possible due to the biggest piece of shit of a patch / blocking solution provided so far.................................
no one will ever be banned from this forum for speaking the truth........................
only liars and scammers are banned from here for the obvious reason...................................
thats why you and leo were banned for lieing scamming and wasteing ppls time on your lies, when it could be better served helping real users with winmx problems....................quicks is a honourable man pitty he wasted it on a lieing sack of shit like you............................

[Scyre]

Wow... I sure do miss a lot when I am gone lol

OK, Now, for the world according to Scyre:

I will give Knobbster the following credit simply because it is due. As Ghost pointed out, he does at least come here and face the wmw users, which is more than I can say for the other pie\vladd users.
He has in the past stood against those from the other camp(s) when he disagreed with their stance on things, and that shows some spine.

Knobby, I just want you to see something that is very indicative of the differences in the type of people involved in the different camps:
Although the much superior and effective dll patch was lied about, hidden, and a campaign to remove all references to it was launched, and even though it has been utter hell dealing with all the BS that has come from all the tactics of vladd\pie people, ALL IT TOOK WAS YOU REQUESTING TO BE ALLOWED TO PUBLICIZE YOUR NEW PATCH AND THIS CAMP ALLOWED IT!

Now surely you can appreciate the good will there. And I also give you enough credit as being intelligent enough to know that claiming every wmw member is responsible for an (as yet unsubstantiated claim of) attack on vladd's or anyone elses site, is pure foolishness, and unrealistic, especially when some on this site have actually given you the opportunity to advertise for an alternative to the patch that we all stand behind. So, we aren't all bad, right?

I will be honest, you actually always seemed too smart to be wrapped up in the crap with vladd and co, and I never really understood what bound you to those people who don't appear to have your good sense. Personally, I think you are playing for the wrong team, but that's just me. If it is just to ensure a sense of variety I guess I can see it, but that is the ONLY reason I could grasp.

The biggest reason I have doubt as to the attack of vladd's site is that never has any proof been offered. Anytime something like that happens, people have always published all the info of the attack, and would it not benefit everyone if such a thing were made public so others could look up IPs and host info to better identify who was doing something distructive to the community? But after MANY have requested it, nothing has ever been presented. That only serves to cheapen the claim that anything ever happened...

Knobby, I have seen you many times act as a voice of reason when everyone else seemed eat up with emotional reaction. I'd like to think that the very same part of you reasons out the true differences in the groups who are working on everything. A lot of people simply will not care if vladd44.com never returns, but you can't expect them to. Many are still sore from the paypal scam and many of the lies, and being booted when they were simply trying to offer a choice, which we have done the courtesy of allowing here.

In all honesty, I am suprised that there weren't about 10,000 people worldwide trying to drop his site after all the users that were abused, but I would say that if any member of this site involved themselves in such a thing, not only would they be acting alone without the approval of the rest of the members, but if their identity were known, they would have the rest of us upset at such an action. Most of the members here, even if we dislike the entire idea of a non-effective patch, are not going to sink to the level of dirty tricks that have been done to us. It is actually much more probable that an unrelated party is responsible or a cartel associate for that matter.

I mean, surely you realize that wmw are not the only ones that Vladd and co have offended with their crap. There are a lot of people out there completely pissed that they paid money from those damned links on v44...And some of them may not be very nice people lol

And these are the more likely possibilities assuming that an attack actually even took place. If you do truely have info, please post it. If you choose not to, then I ask that the matter be dropped, or at least until the ISP or whoever is done investigating the matter. That seems fair.

Ok, I'll shut up now lol

Best Regards, and Be Good!
Scyre

[Levi]

Come on people, as winmx hosts we've been through so much, we've had to fight the RIAA & powers that be, isn't it time we united & stopped fighting amongst each other.

We kept up the fight for the freedom to use winmx against the big boys.. but it's that same old divide & conquer business, are we all gonna fall into that trap now & turn against each other.

Everybody has a right to their own views, but Vladd44 has had a site running for winmx for a long time, he's always been helpful even if some don't agree with his methods.  He's still been supporting winmx along with winmx world and others.  Also people have a right to choose who's patches, software, forums etc. to use.  Or is the winmx community a dictatorship?

We're stronger together, we might as well all just turn off winmx if we're going to continue this foolishness

United We Stand
Divided We Fall

How many more quotes do I need to post to get sense into some heads???

Peace

[GhostShip]

Thretening to take legal action against this site and winmxgroup put his actions as something beyond repair, there will never be any agreement with vladd now, that bridge has been removed.

We are a peaceful community and for that reason I suggest we all forget vladd and his games and move along with helping each other.

The quotes you posted Levi all seem to be ones originating from either this site or myself.
I set you a challenge, find some quotes of peaceful co-operation on vladds site, then I may listen a little more rather than sigh.

[KM]

supporting winmx?

and how exactly?

was this the bit where he sat there and watched everyone else doing everything, then tried claiming credit for it all?

or perhaps it was when he stated that his primary goal is to shut down winmx, and that he will spend whatever it takes to try and achieve that? was that his supporting winmx?

he has been launching direct and indirect attacks against winmx for a long time, he is responsible for those fake files all over winmx, and if you want to claim that the hundreds of thousands of users that have left winmx because of him is somehow helpful then i suggest you go take your meds

[Neutron]

Come on people, as winmx hosts we've been through so much, we've had to fight the RIAA & powers that be, isn't it time we united & stopped fighting amongst each other.

the only reason the RIAA are still on the network is that we have 2 camps pushing unprotected hosts files on users, letting the RIAA on the network. Those 2 camps happened to be vladd44,com and gemini's pie team. without them, we'd have a perfect MX now. Vladd did nothing to rescue MX from being shut down, instead he ruined and delayed our plans with his selfishness and his amateur patch.
We have tried to drop the arguments with vladd, but it's vladd that keeps them going. As long as he wants to fight us, we'll need to defend ourselves. just have a look at this thread: https://forum.winmxworld.com/index.php?topic=3630.0.html