Author Topic: Room List Flooding (Read 10584 times)

Bieb · « **Reply #20 on:** March 10, 2011, 08:38:30 am »

SilverStripes makes perfect sense wonderer.

Unless you have been living under a rock you have noticed that there have not been any new p2p networks like WinMX or Gnutella popping up like they did 10 years ago. This is due to the fact that p2p technology has evolved and moved on in the form of bittorrent. There are thousands of public torrent tracker websites, and there are hundreds of specialized private trackers as well that each have their own great community like WinMX but based around forums and irc.

I could list the disadvantages of WinMX and the advantages of Bittorent but I will just leave it at the fact that WinMX as we know it now cannot move forward into the future for much longer.

The internal primary network and the client itself does not support IPV6 and there is no feasible way to make it compatible. This comes back to how you said WinMX is not dying. When in fact it is. When every IPV4 address is given out by the end of this year new users will only be given IPV6 addresses. When they wish to access a network or system/application that is only IPV4 they will be tunneled through an isp NAT which is basically a large proxy server where large groups of people will be behind the same ip address and they will not be connectable. Not being connectable means that they will not be able to open ports and share files rendering any new growth out of the question.

So as much as I would like to believe that WinMX is not dying, the truth is it is and it will. A new network is the only option we have and whether or not someone decides to take that task and legal lability on is completely up in the air.

White Stripes · « **Reply #21 on:** March 10, 2011, 09:51:31 am »

Quote

a new client and a safer protocol

without frontcode that still means its not winmx .... it will very well be the community that used winmx and it will be a network thats similar to the wpn (since the wpn needs to be changed to plug the holes) but its not 'winmx' aka the WinMX copyright Frontcode Technologies...

and the patient is dead... the life support machine (patch) is what keeps it running now... on its own it does nothing (unless you count opennap)....

now... winzo, winpy, and i think theres another but its name escapes me... those run... but they arent 'winmx' ....
and to plug the holes the new client will be incompatible with the old one... aka 'winmx' ....

make sense now?

wonderer · « **Reply #22 on:** March 10, 2011, 09:57:29 am »

Well, its lucky some smart people have forseen the IPV6~IPV4 compatability problems and build tunnels to overcome this problem.
So, there is no problem to use WinMx for years to come for that matter.
Irc is imho a bad substitute compared with the chatrooms technology of WinMx.

I could list more advantages than disadvantages of WinMx.

I also don't understand why you people announcing the nearby dead of WinMx are still around and did not move to the excellent other ways to get what you want.

In short, if you have lost believe in WinMx it's time to move on and leave the users still believing in WinMx alone and stop this negative talk.

@ss a little bit longer and you are going to tell WinMx 1.6 ain't the same as WinMx 3.5 as the protocol has changed

No need to reply, I'll see you back in future.

White Stripes · « **Reply #23 on:** March 10, 2011, 10:55:20 am »

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@ss a little bit longer and you are going to tell WinMx 1.6 ain't the same as WinMx 3.5 as the protocol has changed

both are called winmx cos both were made by frontcode -- noone on this forum owns the trademark names of 'winmx' and/or 'frontcode'...

.....perhaps others will understand the point im trying to make here.....

achilles · « **Reply #24 on:** March 10, 2011, 12:15:22 pm »

Quote

Silver Stripes
a new client and a safer protocol

now... winzo, winpy, and i think theres another but its name escapes me... those run... but they arent 'winmx' ....
and to plug the holes the new client will be incompatible with the old one... aka 'winmx' ....

make sense now?

If plugging the holes in the new client makes it incompatible with the old client then everyone will need to switch to the new client. Yes, it will have a direct negative impact on the network maybe for a few months during the transition, but I believe the majority or almost all of WinMX users will get one board. I don't want to discourage the progress being made toward the new client so when there is a functional client finished that can be build upon, and improved I hope those holes you mentioned above will be plugged. Progress in creating a better network & client should not be held up because of a few stubborn users that might not switch to the new client. Also take into account that with the creation of a new improved client there will certainly be many new user's drawn to the network. I believe those user's would far outweigh the few that might not switch to the new client. So when there is a completed working client to improve upon I believe any changes that can be made to the client to make it more competitive with modern day P2P clients should be made. I have several changes in mind, but I myself do not know if they are feasible to implement into the WPN network. I do know that if those changes can be made then by all means they should. I would list them, but from everything I have been told it would be useless to do so until we have a completed functioning client to build upon.

White Stripes · « **Reply #25 on:** March 10, 2011, 03:19:15 pm »

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I believe those user's would far outweigh the few that might not switch to the new client.

you might be surprised.... then again... i might be too....

but a 'new client' will have to be rolled out somehow.... hell... one could make a fork of ares that had a winmx-esque looking UI and a few changes under the hood to accommodate a blocklist system and the retro winmx chat.... and call it a 'new client' .... thats how 'different' from the original abandonware this may get....

(note; for those curious why i keep mentioning ares in various areas is because its the first thing that comes to my mind when thinking 'open source' and 'winmx like' .... )

achilles · « **Reply #26 on:** March 10, 2011, 03:27:35 pm »

BTW.. in my last post when I said, "any changes that can be made to the client to make it more competitive with modern day P2P clients should be made". I should have specified any changes should be made as long as it does not make for a less secure client. Security should always be priority over everything else. As Silver Stripes put it, "a safer protocol". I believe those working on the new client have already made it clear that security is a top priority for them as well. Some of the most common used P2P clients made for much faster downloads than WinMX, but there security really sucked so I would not go near them. LimeWire is the first one that comes to mind.

White Stripes · « **Reply #27 on:** March 10, 2011, 04:01:33 pm »

having your cake and edith too are not often something one can do....

achilles · « **Reply #28 on:** March 10, 2011, 04:25:36 pm »

Quote from: Silver Stripes on March 10, 2011, 04:01:33 pm

having your cake and edith too are not often something one can do....

More or less, but whats wrong with dreaming

White Stripes · « **Reply #29 on:** March 10, 2011, 05:19:51 pm »

Quote from: achilles on March 10, 2011, 04:25:36 pm

Quote from: Silver Stripes on March 10, 2011, 04:01:33 pm
having your cake and edith too are not often something one can do....
More or less, but whats wrong with dreaming

true... a little wishfull thinking never hurt anyone... just dont get lost in your dreams and loose touch with what is... and isnt... possible...

Bieb · « **Reply #30 on:** March 10, 2011, 11:47:47 pm »

Quote from: wonderer on March 10, 2011, 09:57:29 am

Well, its lucky some smart people have forseen the IPV6~IPV4 compatability problems and build tunnels to overcome this problem.
So, there is no problem to use WinMx for years to come for that matter.
Irc is imho a bad substitute compared with the chatrooms technology of WinMx.

I could list more advantages than disadvantages of WinMx.

I also don't understand why you people announcing the nearby dead of WinMx are still around and did not move to the excellent other ways to get what you want.

In short, if you have lost believe in WinMx it's time to move on and leave the users still believing in WinMx alone and stop this negative talk.

@ss a little bit longer and you are going to tell WinMx 1.6 ain't the same as WinMx 3.5 as the protocol has changed

No need to reply, I'll see you back in future.

I think you missed the point I was trying to make about the IPV6 issue. Yes ISPs have found a way to make new customers who only receive ipv6 addresses able to access ipv4 services, but behind a nat (large proxy esque type system) you will not be able to open ports, which means you cannot host a chat room, you cannot use a primary connection, you cannot share files.

Being able to access the network and being able to actually use it are two completely different things.

Surely there are some advantages over other p2p systems but those small advantages really do not outweigh the disadvantages.

The major disadvantages of WinMX being the 2GB file size limit. People want HD movies. 1080p bluray rips range usually from 8 to 12GB in size. Queues are a big problem that even Frontcode themselves were on track to get rid of in 3.55 I believe. Another disadvantage is how WinMX transfers files. Being able to preview movies can be called an advantage but Start to Finish file transfers are not as fast as multi chunk multi user file transfers.

I know Pri has tried to explain this before but I will try again. If you have one user sharing a file on WinMX, and two users trying to download that same file they are getting the same chunks from beginning to end. With bitttorent the uploader or seed(s) give out the rarest pieces of the file so that download A gets a different chunk than Downloader B, so Downloader A can share that chunk with Downloader B, and Downloader B can share their chunk with Download A while also still downloading from the Uploader. It results in faster sharing of a file because there is more than one person giving you the chunks that you need.

Counter arguing the fact that you cant preview videos and music files via bittorent is not applicable because unlike WinMX all private movie and music trackers, and even public trackers have users commenting on each file telling you if it's fake or not. The torrent page for that specific torrent also includes information about where the movie was ripped from, the format, bit-rate, and the files included in the torrent itself. In music it tells you the album edition, artist information, etc. etc. Things you do not get on WinMX. WinMX gives you the Filename. That is it. That's why previewing is a nice feature, but on WinMX only when you do not have the resources and information to tell you that it is indeed a verified valid file and not just a junk movie file renamed to what you're looking for.

And a lot of people have in fact moved on to other p2p systems. We stick around for the community which is what this website and everyone here is trying to keep together. WinMX has a strong community via chat. It just does not have the files and the advanced file transfer mechanisms to back up the chat network. Movie rooms supplement their files via private torrent websites where they get the latest releases as soon as they're available and then share them via seedboxes for other WinMX users to download at high speed.

So again, WinMX as we know it is dying away but that does not mean I do not care about the community behind it.

GhostShip · « **Reply #31 on:** March 11, 2011, 12:05:23 am »

Advanced file transfers ?

You mean insecure and breaking all records for "law suit extortion" victims dont you ?

From what you have said its clear that your only after illegal content and so perhaps the network will be better without such material being the prime reason for being here after all the whole reason we have remained unmolested all this time is that no one has been encouraging such activity.

Bieb · « **Reply #32 on:** March 11, 2011, 01:00:17 am »

Quote from: GhostShip on March 11, 2011, 12:05:23 am

From what you have said its clear that your only after illegal content and so perhaps the network will be better without such material being the prime reason for being here after all the whole reason we have remained unmolested all this time is that no one has been encouraging such activity.

You're right... users on WinMX must ONLY want to share non copyrighted files... and have no interest in any popular media such as music, television shows, and movies.

You can stop making up these irrelevant and inaccurate fallacies that are obviously not true, to help support your arguments. It's getting old.

GhostShip · « **Reply #33 on:** March 11, 2011, 01:14:14 am »

Actually Bieb I am simply stating the laws of your land, but your obviously unwilling or unable to comprehend why this site has repeatedly stated we dont support copyright infringement, and also why we dont police it either.

Please dont let your anger at folks not wishing to use BT master your more mature side.

Bieb · « **Reply #34 on:** March 11, 2011, 01:27:03 am »

I was simply using BT for comparison and listed off some of the advantages and disadvantages between both P2P technologies. I never once advocated that anyone here has to switch to BT or that they should download any copyrighted material. I was simply stating that is the type of files that the vast majority of users on P2P networks such as WinMX want is music, movies, and tv shows. I also pointed out the fact that WinMX as it is now is not ready for the future of the internet, but many other P2P technologies are and have been for years. And if we want to keep the community together we're going to need a completely new network and client.

GhostShip · « **Reply #35 on:** March 11, 2011, 01:37:46 am »

Thats fine to hear Bieb, I dont think anyone disagrees we need to make look at options for the future, whatever that future is and of course BT is a fine option if you after certain types of material but its not why folks come to WinMX in my opinion and we can live side by side disagreeing on those well made points.

My thanks for staying on topic to make your points in a reasonable fashion.

wonderer · « **Reply #36 on:** March 11, 2011, 02:10:26 am »

@bieb
it's clear to me that you never have experienced the bulletinboards to get your files in the 80ies of prvious era.
the same technoligy is still used in your torrent and all newsservers.
all negative points you state including preview and files exceeding 2Gb are forseen in current WinMx if you know how to use it.

@silver
as far as I know, no one named the new client WinMx so far, maybe it will be named WMWMx or NewMx, who knows.

Bieb · « **Reply #37 on:** March 11, 2011, 02:29:52 am »

Sure you can split a large file into smaller rars but why should there be that hassle for users? People like things that just work without any of the extra effort.

I don't understand why you brought up file previews? All I said about them was that people view it as necessary because they are not able to view or give any community feedback via comments or detailed information on a file. They only see a file name on WinMX.

MinersLantern · « **Reply #38 on:** March 11, 2011, 03:28:15 am »

All this bother about previewing files? Just download. If it sucks right click, delete, find another.
Works in Winmx, torrents or any other sharing system past present or future.
If your hard drive cant handle the files, maybe time to go shopping and purchase a bigger one.
BTW, I still hate BT. In Amerika, I can download anything I wish too. (as in incoming files from somewhere to me, people often get confused abt the difference between in and out) It doesnt matter if its music, a movie or the nations most prized nuclear or other secrets. BT requires, for it to function at all, that whatever you are getting you are also sending in realtime. That is an issue. Also that is why the horribly obsolete WinMX still rules imo. I can send something, and recieve something entirely different. There is none of this idea of forced sharing. Yes I do realize that some other countries are beyond soviet union type of dictaorships... hello Oz. But I dont live in Oz, Canada, GB or anywhere else. They will arrest you for giving a mean look at someone, they will also arrest you for daring to see anything that isnt approved by their (fascist imo) government. Still all in all, the US is the beacon of freedom. In a few ways, inculding P2P.

White Stripes · « **Reply #39 on:** March 11, 2011, 04:21:40 am »

Quote from: wonderer on March 11, 2011, 02:10:26 am

@bieb
it's clear to me that you never have experienced the bulletinboards to get your files in the 80ies of prvious era.
the same technoligy is still used in your torrent and all newsservers.
all negative points you state including preview and files exceeding 2Gb are forseen in current WinMx if you know how to use it.

watch as you download on torrent is possible... they even have bittorrent powererd set-top boxes .... so no... bittorrent and xmodem/zmodem from days yon have nothing in common....

http://www.howstuffworks.com/bittorrent.htm (need some visuals for help with this?)

...newsgroups however ill give ya... as they need encoding to fit in the 7bit ascii world and download linear... but... in days yon youd need to goto a networked system... not a bbs... to get the latest newsgroup news.... ....quantumlink (now aol), or compuserve (now just another isp) may have had links to the newsgroups tho....

as for the 2 gig limit... i take a different stance on that one.... back yon times past there were 33 1/3 long playing 12inch discs and 45rpm single song 7inch discs..... winmx is for the 45s... torrent is for the 33 1/3s (and laserdiscs lol) ....

Quote

@silver
as far as I know, no one named the new client WinMx so far, maybe it will be named WMWMx or NewMx, who knows.

ahhh.. you finally sorta got my point... good...