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WinMX World :: Forum  |  WinMX World Community  |  Winmxworld.com Strategic Directions  |  Is this project really that difficult?
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Author Topic: Is this project really that difficult?  (Read 13923 times)

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Offline White Stripes

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Re: Is this project really that difficult?
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2011, 05:40:56 am »
doesnt matter what crypto you use.... the patch attaches to winmx and sends its data out modified.... take a known strand of data and feed it through you can see how it acts....

using crypto is one thing... but its as simple as taking the software apart to see what it does to undo that....

its why SSL has 3rd party signers and other means to 'verify' that the key used is the right key.... ....but it doesnt do a damn bit of good if youve got a keylogger hidden in your system.....


@will; i like the 'toggle' better than the 'autodetect' for the simple reason that it would actually make winmx 3.x play 'fair' on naps.... (keven really screwed up with opennap in winmx 3.x)

Offline GhostShip

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Re: Is this project really that difficult?
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2011, 05:50:24 am »
The crypto can only do so much and that's why there are various mechanisms in the protocol that work to secure the network, crypto can be cracked or copied or as we have seen before in one case simply sending out the same fixed key each time can bypass some security, the crypto has to be our wrapper that's for sure but in this case its a protocol fix that's required so that even if the crypto is compromised the attacker cannot still abuse anyone as the system prevents it by setting up a few hoops to jump though, WinMX already has such features however Kevin seems not to have used this trick on all packets and its those the attackers are using, if we can rework this annoying flaw then I see no reason for us not to regain the network from the cowardly vandals that are driving all users away because they cannot take the network over, these ppl have spoiled for a fight, let's give them one by shutting down their capability to inflict damage on the network, then we will see them take off with their tails between their legs.

Offline PatrickShartz

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Re: Is this project really that difficult?
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2011, 07:43:49 am »
So is there any news on a patch?

Offline PatrickShartz

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Re: Is this project really that difficult?
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2011, 07:46:52 am »
WinMX is already encrypted. Unfortunately, the method is known. Im just suggesting that changing the protocols from search to chat to connect and negotiate to something unknown (to the outside world). Has anyone heard of the 'Beale Code' ? Its very simple. It descibes the location and quantity of an ungodly amount of money. (gold/silver) and to date the first two documents have been cracked. Those told of what the treasure is and how much is to be found. The third is the location. The third has never been decoded. At $1600/once of todays gold value, it would be scary to imagine an individual decoding that successfully. Not that people have not been spending money, time and using the latest computer technology to figure it out for many years. Still no joy. The cartel, government and not even the almighty KM can crack it and its still a very simple code. Find some document, doesnt matter what document really as long as its unknown. The first letter of each word is assigned a number, this number varies not only by different first letters but also by where they occur in the document. The only way to decode a thing like that is to find the original document that the table is based on. Software that works by using frequency of word usage in the english language is of no help. There is no pattern to deduce. It could be based on the constitution (insecure, too famous) or some guys daughters wish list for christmas (very secure). To be even more evil, one could just randomly select words and string them together as a document (would take all the computer power on earth a billion years to solve). How far do the 'hackers' want to go? Do they have limitless money and time to solve the problem? One could further be annoying by using typical, for these days, encryption methods using source and destination ips to mathematically mess the original crypto up further in real time. It really wouldnt matter if someone attempts to read packets being send back and forth to figure it out, that all would change from one connection to another. Im not saying that this is the correct or most optimal path, but at least it does look like I have poked a hornets nest and got some discussion going about the matter. How much money and time does KM want to spend to regain his 'status' as absolute power on WinMX? Major change is a good idea. Let him try to hack it until he dies of old age. Maybe he will find something more interesting to do. Hell, KM isnt even prolly doing it now. There are too many others that want to see WinMX and any other P2P software vanish from the face of the earth. I just use 'KM' and 'Hackers' to descibe the ones who are screwing us all up since it WAS KM who decided, in his infinite wisdom, to release the source code. Anyway, change it this way, that way, any way. As long as its unknown how it works, problem solved for a good long time. Im not trying to be negative or drive away anyone and certainly not the guys/gals spending their time for free trying to get the patch going. Some argument and discussion is a good thing. Without that, any subject or issue will become stagnant and nobody is going to do a thing, including WinMX. There is no need to perfect everything about the patch right now before its release. The greatest major problems can be tweaked to reduce them in a new patch. Greater functionality and perfection can be added later through time. Even Microsoft didnt wait for years to release Windows. Corrections are made in time via updates. Nothing is perfect with the first release and it wont be after 100 updates, each improves upon the last.






plz learn some grammar and sentence formatting or no one will read ur stuff.

Offline White Stripes

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Re: Is this project really that difficult?
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2011, 08:58:23 am »
plz learn some grammar and sentence formatting or no one will read ur stuff.

no grammar or spelling nazis plz.... this forum has enough drama as-is...

Offline PatrickShartz

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Re: Is this project really that difficult?
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2011, 10:30:40 am »
plz learn some grammar and sentence formatting or no one will read ur stuff.

no grammar or spelling nazis plz.... this forum has enough drama as-is...

The way he formats hiz posts is just nonsense. hard to read and makes no senze

Offline White Stripes

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Re: Is this project really that difficult?
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2011, 12:28:01 pm »
plz learn some grammar and sentence formatting or no one will read ur stuff.

no grammar or spelling nazis plz.... this forum has enough drama as-is...

The way he formats hiz posts is just nonsense. hard to read and makes no senze

took me a couple of reads too and the part about the code he was talking about i just skimmed... since i knew all he was talking about was to add a layer of 'unknown crypto' .....

problem is around here you're going to get a lot of that... esp from the ESL (english second language) folks.... not easy to speak ones native tounge then type in this very odd language called 'english' on a forum....

everyone here has their typing quirks.... just have to kinda work around them....

Offline GhostShip

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Re: Is this project really that difficult?
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2011, 02:16:26 pm »
Patrick I would ask you to be pleasant to other posters please, there are many users of WinMX and they come in all shapes and sizes and have varying degrees of capabilities, simply because their formatting may not be as regular as a paperback book it does not follow that their message is invalid or lacking in substance.

If we are nice to each other then we will always have friends and the respect of others.

Currently there is no fresh news regarding the new patch but work is still progressing with yet another set of hands joining the group that's working on implementing the solution, this will contine until its completed.

Offline achilles

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Re: Is this project really that difficult?
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2011, 07:14:00 pm »
There may be differences of opinion on the extent encryption has to offer in making the client more secure, but I don't know of anyone in the community that is an expert or is skilled in Cryptography. Also, not all cryptographers know how to or are good coders. If you are then please let us know since you could be of great value to the community.  It's like asking a Podiatrist (foot doctor) to do the job of a Cardiologist.  The Podiatrist would be a better person to ask than someone that is not a doctor, but if you have heart problems you should be consulting a Cardiologist. We are limited in the resources we have to draw from so we have no other choice, but to make due with what we have. If you are skilled in all of these areas then my apologies! No one I know of here has ever claimed to be skilled in Cryptography, and coding.
I'm a Hardware, and Cyber Security Guy.

Offline GhostShip

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Re: Is this project really that difficult?
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2011, 09:03:08 pm »
There are some great off the shelf cryptographic libraries for c/c++ coders Achilles but as you say they do fare better when in skilled hands  :)

Offline boneheadbassboy

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Re: Is this project really that difficult?
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2011, 04:25:32 pm »
 The "HELL" with the nay sayers. I've enjoyed WinMx for many years. Was chrushed when it went down,but joyus when I found it revived. I know this problem will be defeated! Untill then I will just work around it.

Offline White Stripes

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Re: Is this project really that difficult?
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2011, 05:39:15 pm »
There may be differences of opinion on the extent encryption has to offer in making the client more secure, but I don't know of anyone in the community that is an expert or is skilled in Cryptography.

the 'kicker' with crypto in software is; if you put the key and lock in the same code someone will find both... ...take mx's own crypto for example....

Offline GhostShip

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Re: Is this project really that difficult?
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2011, 09:20:47 pm »
Thats exactly the point I hoped I made clear myself Stripes, the WPN protocol does not rely for its security alone on crypto but it has been a major strengtherner, I'm glad you have made the same point in a different way.

Offline Cobra

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Re: Is this project really that difficult?
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2011, 06:37:33 am »
it's far from dead....
and if the users have all left, why is my queue so busy?
This is a point that I wish was said more often (maybe it has been and I have not been reading enough.)

At this moment, WinMX is working just fine for me. Yes it is likely temporary, but nonetheless it is working. So I do a single search and I have gotten back almost 100 valid results. Sure it's not 1,000 results but it's not only 3 or 4 as I would expect if there was no one using the program anymore. The fact that people are sticking with it despite the issues is far more important than scuffing at the negatives.

On another note, when the problems first began and unexpected results came up, it resulted in my seeing files I never would have thought to search for. I have ended up with 200 more files that I never would have had... so for me at least some good came from this nuisance of an issue.
Downloading is an addiction I do not want to give up.

Offline cuttingedge

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Re: Is this project really that difficult?
« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2011, 04:39:16 pm »
 :canadian: Same here Cobra.....I have some good luck as a secondary just refreshing MX to conduct searches. Finding the right cluster to hang out on takes a minute but not impossible.
I connect, do a generic search like "Beatles" see what comes up as far as the users. you can see the garbage and the users that are dishing it out. If I see lots of trash and no valid return, disconect and reconnect and try again. When I find a good size group of  valid users you can see the generic search has alot less trash in it.
Then I sort thru individuals lists to find all kinds of stuff I dont have yet.  :blindfold: Shot in the dark but not impossible.

I wish I had stuck with learning programming cause I would like to help out. I do have a few ideas but I think it would take a strong organization to get it off the ground.
Think about this....If A new patch is created to flip the WPN, it would have to be handed out to the public. How you hand it out I think is the key here. There would need to be a "Gate Keeper" type system in place to insure abuse is monitored.
Just some thoughts......

I CAN HANDLE IT!

Offline Bluey_412

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Re: Is this project really that difficult?
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2011, 04:51:22 pm »
Hmmm, and Install key/registration requirement...
Interesting thought...

Whacha think, o ye programming gods?
What you think is important is rarely urgent
But what you think is Urgent is rarely important

Just remember that...

Offline cuttingedge

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Re: Is this project really that difficult?
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2011, 05:17:07 pm »
I think creating the patch is not the problem....It takes time and energy but not A miracle. I was around when MX went down the first time, remote servers had to be shut down, court orders, and Eagle pulled it off in a matter of days and we were flying once again. The fact is it would be all for nothing and be currupt as soon as the trouble makers download it. A new patch would have to be written to be able to be revoked and user blocked if an abuse took place. From what I remember from running open nap server, there was a pretty strong block list type of programming there. I still think I have an older version of Slava Nap.
I dont know alot of todays programming capabilities but I do know alittle about the old school stuff.....If it was in my hands, I would set up an old school client version, with a new revokable patch and make a user register to get the "CLUB PATCH"

Again, Just my thoughts....

 

I CAN HANDLE IT!

Offline Lagerlout666

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Re: Is this project really that difficult?
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2011, 05:33:25 pm »
what stops me passing it on to someone else....? Keys/serials!!!!  yes we all know how well that works lol.

Ideas are already laid out. Workers are working, patience is all that is needed.

Point has already been made a few times, if your stuck for files move over to open nap. No junk on their, and pretty much better for your health, until a patch comes along. It was the reason why we set a nap server up ;-D
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Offline cuttingedge

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Re: Is this project really that difficult?
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2011, 06:03:01 pm »
Mac number for id of a specific user with registered pach copy on one PC only silly! 
 I can see as much as ya encourage peeps to come up with ideas and what not, some just dont wanna hear it.
I am not as think as you dumb I am, and suddle hints just dont work I guess.
 :/
 

I CAN HANDLE IT!

Offline RebelMX

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Re: Is this project really that difficult?
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2011, 06:14:33 pm »
Afraid it wouldnt work.  The patch needs to be written so that it makes no difference if the "baddies" get a copy of the patch.  That is the idea that is being looked into I believe.

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