OurMx History

[TOAD]

Why dont you write about the history of OURMX.
That would be HILARIOUS 

I forgot, you dont like the TRUTH here. 

[GhostShip]

What would you like to hear ?

Btw can you stick to a single topic at a time as it becomes tedious replying in multiple places to the same old disgruntled person who not only spams here but the chat rooms as well with false claims and outright lies, I am happy to converse with you over any matter even if no one else is.

[GhostShip]

I have closed the other topic and made a link to here, just so I don't have to put up with your more outlandish claims I haven't deleted any of your posts although I am aware some have been moved to a staff area by another member of staff, however they are just your usual style of rant and as such not a real loss to the community, your ego on the other hand might feel dented.

Why don't you write up some data on OurMx, its always a shame to see you coming here each time with the idea that we all work for you and have nothing to do with our lives except work on the new client, even if I had a brand new release in hand you would still never be satisfied simply because your a critic and I'm a producer, anyone can sit back taking cheap shots as it involves virtually no real effort, I on the other hand have shown time and again that I am willing to put in that effort and spend however long it takes to bring smiles back to faces, that's all this is about for me and more importantly the rest of the volunteer staff , there are no ads here and thus the whole site is run by the community for the community, you are/where a part of the community but not one who's prepared to stump up any effort it seems even when asked for help, is there a name for that sort of person ?

[GhostShip]

I have produced a potted history of OurMx just to please Toad our resident naysayer 

https://www.winmxworld.com/tutorials/ourmx_-_the_story_so_far.html


Enjoy !   

[silicon_toad2000]

TOAD, contribute something constructive, leave or be banned.

Why don't you put up a history of Ourmx, or contribute to the history of the community thread.

[TOAD]

The Beta version of ourmx released in 2013
was not a Beta version at all.

A Beta version is a fully working version with a few minor bugs.

What you released is barely an embryonic version.

You know full well this is the case so why are you even saying this?

[GhostShip]

I don't agree with you Toad, we both agree some items where missing but it had a chat server, chat, client, filesharing and searching capability,  as well as the ability to use primary or secondary networks so it was way further along that your suggesting, can I ask you to actually take a look at it as to my knowledge you have claimed it didn't exist even after the public beta so I have the idea that you have never tried it, please do so, you will find parts missing that's for sure but you may be surprised how much of it its fully working.

It is very clear to me that until the project matches the smoothness of the existing client there are many who will tie themselves to any driftwood during the storm but we hope to move past that initial reticence and bring fun and hope back as well as deploying countermeasures to drive the attackers away, something we haven't made any efforts to undertake at the moment due to not having any platform to deploy. them on 

[TOAD]

Well if you think that the version you released was a Beta then
I can see why ourmx has taken 4 years or more.

I certainly did try that version you released and it was terriible.

Would not stay connected and nothing worked except the error boxes.

I also took the time to pass this ourmx to on my work colleagues
who all reported back that it was in their words "less than half baked".

One more thing, I did a lot of research around chat rooms
gathering opinions about the new client before I decided to post my findings here.

About half of the users thought it was smoke and mirrors so I sought the truth.
Hence the release of the ourmx non Beta due to me nagging you.

If you had been up front and totally honest with winmx users you would
have had almost 100% support but almost all users I speak to have given up hope, hence the lack of posts on here.

[GhostShip]

I think we need to draw a line in the sand here, just what are you accusing me of ?

I have been very up front and honest, many times I have told you we are short of coders and support staff, what bit about that is passing you by ?

Look at what you are saying Toad,  you too have had the same time and opportunities I have had what have you delivered for the community ?

Please read back into the history of this project, I stepped up to the plate with a few others because no one else was willing to, if you feel that's something I have done wrong then say so, I agree the posts on here are less than optimal but I don't agree that's anything to do with ourmx but instead the network attacker, or did you forget about him in your zest to attack me and the project ?

[TOAD]

Not attacking you personally Ghostship.

I understand the lack of coders and time but even a weekly update would have been enough
but monthsgo by with no updates, even the chat rooms knew nothing and if this place cant
keep the community informed then where else can users look to?

How many updates have been posted through chat about the new client? almost none.

Sorry if I upset you Ghost but I represent most of the users I talk to on what is left of winmx.

[GhostShip]

Your reaching nearer to the root of the problem I see but still not grasping the apple from the tree in this case, who do you think has to write the update news and come here to report on demand ?

Yes that's right one of the developers who knows how bad the situation is and took the view that the best way to help the community was to try to finish the client, I cant see any flaw in that logic, I understand folks are more than a little disappointed and some even upset and angry but let me lay the moral course on this out so theres no mistake, you don't blame a fireman for not being able to put out a fire he didn't start, I am working on a solution with our other part time coder, we both lead active busy lives but we fully comprehend folks are relying on us out of the mess here to deliver something, that's really the priority, we proved the client was not just smoke and mirrors I had put up updates when they showed something external you could all spy over, but when your coding a lot of the internal code theres little to show any of you, folks want to see public-side features not what lines of code are being written and you know this is the truth of the matter, from my heart take this on board: we too want to use the network and have fun without suffering attacks etc, I have come here many years in a row to reaffirm my commitment to this project even though its embarrassingly slow to final delivery, I do this with my fellow developer because we gave our promise of a future for the networks users, we are still working hard to deliver on that promise.

We wont ever stand in the way of other projects but the simple fact is there are no other projects so we haven't lost anything bar our sanity in this big mess.

[TOAD]

If you look at the posts on here, the views outnumber the posts by 100s.

That means there are a lot of people looking for info but not asking for it.

Maybe they leave it to me the sneaky *******.

If you keep people informed they retain interest.

[GhostShip]

Agreed Toad but as I am repeatedly stating to you, the entire work seems to have fallen on a few shoulders with most of the rest of the community taking no part, in the beginning I put this down to folks simply not having the skills to offer but as times gone on that reason has sort of lost ground.

I have at intervals asked for more hands on the job and also offered to help train up new hands but when you take into the equation that I am just one man and besides the small team on the forum here I get virtually no support, you have to yourself reach the stage surely of asking what you can do to bring the project to fruit, if we all chipped in some effort the weight of the load is shared and progress moves ahead at a faster pace. I know this as we had no problem finding decent help after the 2005 or 2007 crashes, but come 2011 the level of support waned after a negative propaganda effort by KM and NB, you will note that having achieved their objective to cripple both the WPN and WMW because it refused to close down as KM demanded they are no longer around, even the attacker is likely some disgruntled half wit just running something KM delivered to them, we could raise a completely dead WPN in 3 days, yet with no rallying round of coders, researchers, help and general support we are struggling to deliver anything, this isn't fair on those trying to repair the network and some folks have dropped away from our community because they couldn't face the struggle and stresses involved in this nontrivial task, I have lost count of the multitude of folks we may never see again but I refuse to place any blame on myself as I have never attacked the WPN and always tried my best to knit it together when troubles erupt, that's all we can do really, give this project our best and plod on until its completed, without extra hands you may well have to forsake updates and news but rest your mind that all the while your not hearing anything work is still progresssing, that's my priority tbh, when we get more help you can hear more news perhaps.

[LongLostUser]

I have read through the "OurMX History" page you wrote. I don't really understand why you are prioritising OpenNap. If anything, OpenNap is one of the few things WinMX already does well enough, and moving people over to OpenNap temporarily could have been as easy as releasing an updated .wsx-file for everyone to use. Focus the work on the WPN parts of the client. There is no need to reinvent the bits that already work. In fact, the new client should aim at not needing OpenNap at all.


As for holding back on protocol information, I think we can tell from the last few years that this is a strategy that isn't working out very well. Don't you think? What has changed in the time this information has been held hidden away from the public? Not a lot..


After this long, don't you think it could be a nice idea to try a new strategy, and perhaps just put what we have on the table for the audience to see? You're saying that you lack developers and that the work has fallen on a few shoulders, but I will tell you, that's not very strange. There is nothing out there attracting new developers with fresh minds to participate. Perhaps releasing the specs could change that? Why would anyone that wants to participate go through the trouble of nagging for the specification first?


Before you say that revealing this info is a bad idea, keep in mind that the major protocols and software on the internet aren't kept secure by simply obfuscating what's going on on the inside like we're doing with WinMX. Instead, the specs of the protocol are open and well documented for everyone to see. The audience is encouraged to find and point out potential security flaws, and to release papers documenting the flaws and possible fixes. The protocols are made to be secure by DESIGN, not by obfuscation. Lots of software that relies on the same features, for example standard AES encryption, it be file encryption software, Wifi access points or web browsers, use the same open libraries to implement the specification, so even on the software side of things, people are encouraged to have a look. This is a well proven strategy that works incredibly well, and no matter how many people with bad intentions there are in the world, the internet is still standing. It is time to try something new.


I will also back up TOAD's statement by saying that I, myself, have also been looking around to see if I could find this information burried somewhere. Not because I think I am ready to dedicate a lot of time participating in the development, but because I am curious. I know how the network works, I have a basic understanding of C++, and If I'd had this information, I'd most likely read through it to see I could understand it and find anything interestesting. Maybe reading through it could motivate me to do something. I have a friend who knows how to program on a professional level, but without the documents I don't even see a reason even to involve him at all. He may not even be interested, so why would I risk going through the trouble of trying to obtain this info for nothing?

I am sure there are many other users in a similar situation as me who could potentially bring something to the table. And I doubt that obtaining this info is as simple as requesting it from you like you claim. Already now, you're probably wondering who I am and why I'd want this information. The answer is, I don't want you to know who I am, and I don't want to involve myself with a bigger team. I want to experiment with things on my own. If I can make something useful out of it, I'd share what I have, if I can't make anything useful, I'd just fade into the shadows. We both have the same goal, which is to revive this network, but we don't share the same viewpoints on many things.

[silicon_toad2000]

Open nap because it wasn't in ourmx at the preview release.

The last few years has shown exactly what happens when you provide that kind of information freely, that information had previously been kept away from people who would use it against the network.

It would be nice if frontcode had made the protocols secure by design, but you can't put the smoke back in the machine and hope it works, if you'd been following any of this you'd know the end aim is to make a protocol which the community can use and secure enough to open source it.

Where have you looked, what have you found?

[LongLostUser]

"That information had previously been kept away from people who would use it against the network"
Maybe, but keep in mind that the attacks were done by KM who already had this knowledge, not by someone who suddenly got their hands on it. And even if that was the case, it has also been kept away from people who could use it for constructive purposes.


It's time to rework the way we think, revolutionise how things are done and make the major changes that are required to make progress.

You're stuck in the wrong track, guys. You assume that anyone with access to it is a potential threat to the network rather than a potential resource. I think you lack some professionalism over what you're doing.

Sometimes I wonder if you are keeping this info to yourselves so you can take the credits and dictate who gets to do any work and who doesn't. I was however able to recover some old files.. robo sourcecode and such, bunch of other crap I don't remember what is etc etc. I have no idea if it's even still out there in the free. I may have more sitting on old hard drives that I have laying around in drawers. It has been a long long time. I don't think there's much help hanging around in these forums after all. Sorry. Luckily there are still more people left on the network sitting on this information. Maybe they can be of more help.

[GhostShip]

Theres a big button up top of this forum called the "Archive", thats where we store most of the communities applications and all the srcs we can find to go with such items, its clear this has eluded your attention.

We do our best here to deliver as much as we can to mx users for as long as we can and have been doing so since 2005 when this site was set up, in that time we have organised many things that benefit the community and steered it with others towards the greater good so whilst we wont see eye to eye on handing out critical infrastructural information to just anyone we have set out the reasons why and how to go about getting what you need in the short term, if we wanted a monopoly we would not have asked for assistance many times from coders, when none come we dont give up but we have to work at a slower pace thats the long and short of this.

[LongLostUser]

Don't worry, I found what I was looking for. Eagle patch and cache source files, txt files about secondary and primary tcp and udp.

[GhostShip]

Those files are not fully complete but will doubtless get you on your way, good luck on your adventures, should you find yourself with questions feel free to make usage of the forum here and as always we will do our best to assist.


To whom ever handed those files out to this stranger I hold you in utter contempt, I say stranger as LongLostUser post's hiding behind a proxy just like the network attackers, the truth is we dont know who LongLostUser is and thus neither do you, by your selfish actions we may see further attacks or worse new attack tools created that nullify all the work we do in maintaining what there is of the network,  I hope you feel proud of yourself.

This folks is why we are in the mess we are in, one bad egg leaks commited community developers src materials to KM and along with his own meagre notes by magic the network begins to come under attack, I wonder why I bother doing anything further when faced with such short sighted activities that only undermine the entire network for nothing in return, we can only hope LongLostUser is not a prize prat and acts responsibly.

[TOAD]

I said it last year and I will say it again this year.

I will bet that in a years time ourmx will be in the same state as it's always been.

The will is just not there.

Prove me wrong.