NEW THREAT TO WINMX & P2P

[birdman]

Have you been having problems timing out when downloading from someone on mx ? if so the problem may not be wimx but your isp. It appears isps are not using traffic shaping which bascially targets p2p and limits their bandwidth to beyond use it s a filter. Now at the moment its a few isps but tommmorrow it may be yours. we need to get winmx useres and winmx on an encrypted connection or we will loose our beloved winmx as people will walk away if they cannot use it. If we can encrypt the connection on wimx then isps will not be able to filter it and thus cause the connection no problems isp cant do anything about what they cannot see please encrypt the winmx connection before we start loosing winmx people i know it will mean another patch as we need to be encrypted the same as user as the caches are but hey we love mx dont we ?

[birdman]

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/248/ntl-now-shaping-network-traffic
here is the first peice of evidence of what we may all be facing, act now please

[dazco]

http://www.ipp2p.org/
here you will see the kind of software isps are using to stop us p2p peeps, now encrypting is the was RC4 i have done this on my torrent client and its buzzing again winmx needs same plzzzzzzzz

[Zepposircarressith]

just a quick ? how can this be relevite to the winmx software and its caches cause i have not noticed anyof of this nor anyone have told me of this so if anyone can fill me in on the technicl turms of this it would be nice

[bridman]

your isp may not be using it yet so your winmx wont be affected but they might tommorow and thats the warning we may all be facing unless mx connections are not encrypted

[KM]

winmx already uses ancryption, encryption makes no difference at all to preventing an ISP filtering it

every connection has to send data that the other can identify, if 2 copies of winmx can not identify each other they can not comunicate - and if they can identify each other then anyone monitoring the data can also identify it as winmx

the fact that bit torrent clients have started supporting another protocol is why those have got past the CURRENT filtering used by ISPs, not because it is incrypted but because the ISPs are currently filtering the old protocol and havent started filtering the new one

[birdy]

http://azureus.aelitis.com/wiki/index.php/Avoid_traffic_shaping
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4758636.stm
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/128608
please find the time to read these links as further evidence of the threat we are facing and a solution for our beloved winmx

[birdy]

yes i know easy solution is o change isp to another but what happens if and when all isps are doing it ?  i dont want to see people leave mx because their isp has got the better of winmx we need to follow torrents lead with encryption on winmx

[KM]

please actually read my previous post, pay special attention to the first line of it, the bit that points out the huge flaw in your "if winmx was exactly how it is right now then ISPs wouldn't be able to block it"

[birdy]

thanx for your replies KM , are both winmx patch fixes encrypted ?  iam not only askin for myself but for other members of my chat room that have problems timing out when connected either downloading or uploading even after they have been connected for a while

[birdy]

is there a way of getting around the filtering of winmx without changing isp ?   it appears many people are becoming victim to this from different threads i have read on this site alone

[Ace]

sorry to say birdy but no   
 the isp has a control panle  which shows all traffic  off there customers  on there control panle is a filter button to filter p2p traffic   once that s  been pushed game over     
  only way is to change isp   who you no that dont shaping or filter or user useage  p2p   

[Ace]

follow on from above wot thay use is
 
 The Sandvine PPE8200 system is designed to help service providers manage the unpredictable nature of P2P traffic, for example by controlling what paths are used to route packets and reducing network chatter. One good example is that it can make decisions to ensure users get data from more local sources, rather than over expensive routes like Australia. The reason the ability to control routing is important is that an ISP may have a 10Mbps link to say Europe, which is reliable and low latency but expensive to rent and clogging it up with P2P traffic may cause problems for other users. The ISP can then force the P2P traffic over say a 20Mbps link that is cheaper, but perhaps not so reliable, or has higher latency which really doesnt affect P2P usage.

QUOTE from a simler systeam web site
to give more details off wot thay do

P-Cube's Engage software, part of its Service Engineering solution, can identify and block or prioritize a wide variety of applications and protocols, including potentially illegal P2P programs.

Sunnyvale, Calif.-based P-Cube has released a software module called Engage, an upgrade to its Service Engineering solution that tacks peer-to-peer (P2P) traffic control on to an already impressive list of protocols and applications that the solution can block or prioritize.

The solution consists of software (the Service Management Platform, or SMP) and hardware appliances. The appliances monitor and control remote POPs or aggregation points. An appliance also sits in the ISP's NOC, where it assists in the creation and delivery of network policies and reporting. Currently available models are the SE100 (for Fast Ethernet speeds) and the SE1000 (for Gigabit Ethernet speeds).

Grokking Morpheus and the monkey
Samir Sharma, P-cube senior product marketing manager, notes that the software has to recognize a variety of different P2P applications. "We serve and international market, and each continent has a different P2P solution," he says. The software recognizes the following potentially illegal programs: KaZaA, Winny, iMesh, WinMX, LimeWire, eDonkey, Grokster, Bearshare, Piolet, and Morpheus. WinMX, for example, is popular in Asia because it supports Asian character sets.

P2P traffic, especially file trading, is a problem for an ISP of any size. Notes Sharma, "it fundamentally changes network behavior. ISPs planned on certain behaviors when they designed their backhaul. P2P increases network utilization, especially on international and backhaul links. Adding international links is expensive to an ISP—especially if they cannot add revenues in tandem with new costs."

An ISP that throttles or eliminates all P2P traffic risks losing subscribers, as does one that tries to crack down on heavy users. Engage allows the ISP to set any of a variety of policies.

For example, during daytime business hours, the ISP might limit aggregate P2P traffic to 10 percent of the total available—one user or many would be able to use that 10 percent. An ISP might give each user a P2P quota of 10 GB per month, after which the ISP could throttle or charge for that user's additional traffic. An ISP might set quotas, but allow unlimited P2P traffic within its network—only P2P traffic outside the network would count towards the quota.

Sharma says that each box deployed on an ISP's network should take only about an hour to set up. "We have tools and a GUI to administer the box, and they simplify the setup process," he says. "Of course, determining the rules the ISP will enforce [and communicating them to subscribers] requires planning. Usually, for a week, a company will put the box in the network [in a passive setup] and just take usage data. Then the company will examine behavior patterns. We provide very granular information that a service provider may or may not have had before."

We have the tools, we have the talent
The control offered by the device is so granular that ISPs can use it to prioritize or deny any of the following protocols:

Streaming media: MPEG2-4, RTP, Real Audio, Real Player, RTSP, Windows Media
VoIP: H.323, RTP, RTCP, MGCP, SIP, MegaCoE-mail: MS Exchange, SMTP, POP3, IMAP
Session: Telnet, rlogin, rsh, SSH
Security: HTTPS, LDAP-SSL, RADIUS
Other: HTTP by URL, IP, UDP, TCP, FTP, LDAP, TFTP, SSL, PPTP, ISMP, NNTP, DNS, traceroute
Sharma noted that some providers are interested in using the devices to shape gaming traffic. For example, an ISP could sell a premium gaming package guaranteeing low latency access to the ISP's own game servers, or prioritizing traffic for a specific application (such as Doom or Quake). "If they pay less, they can access the servers, but don't get the latency guarantees," says Sharma, "so they catch a couple of rockets more than anyone else."

Sharma even claims that a game console maker is interested in using the devices on its network to make sure that only game traffic is originating from the consoles—not e-mail, HTTP, or any other non-game traffic.

The device uses a custom language the company calls Service Management Language (SML). Sharma says that, in practice, the language is similar to C or C++, and allows service providers to write their own scripts. "Most service providers," he adds, "just ask us to write scripts for them. It's easy and it's not a problem for us. In fact, it helps us stay on top of variants of popular protocols, and allows us to provide the scripts to all of our subscribers."


as it says  it controled from and by the isp 

[birdy]

can winmx protocol be encrypted ?  

[KM]

as stated several times already in this thread, winmx communications are already encrypted - encryption does not prevent an ISP filtering it/using QoS/whatever

[birdy]

game over then basically especially if moving to another isp is not possible due to being under contract. Its a shame i hope some day soon that someone will come up with a way around this filtering i know there are some very clever people out there who love a challenge long live p2p !!!

[Bearded Blunder]

It depends how sophisticated they're being about stopping winmx traffic, sometimes they merely block the default ports, in which case changing ports can be effective, i think most users have had most success choosing ports used for VOIP services, for some reason fitltering seems sometimes not to be applied there.. but it's trial & error finding numbers that work, 2 threads in particular you may find worth a read through https://forum.winmxworld.com/index.php?topic=1044.0.html & https://forum.winmxworld.com/index.php?topic=1206.0.html

[birdy]

http://azureus.aelitis.com/wiki/index.php/Message_Stream_Encryption
and please excuse my ignorance, but this link would be of no use to winmx,

[Neutron]

game over then basically especially if moving to another isp is not possible due to being under contract. Its a shame i hope some day soon that someone will come up with a way around this filtering i know there are some very clever people out there who love a challenge long live p2p !!!

It depends on what's in the contract. Just because you've signed up for 1 year doesn't mean you can't cancel the contract before it expires if you aren't satisfied with their service or they don't provide what they promise.
Their job is to provide internet access, not just the ability to browse the web, send and receive e-mail and those "regular" things.
If they want to filter WPNP traffic, then they filter one of the protocols used on the internet, and it is just the same as if they filtered HTTP traffic. If an ISP blocks HTTP, I'd assume that's a good enough reason to cancel the contract, and if it is, then the same thing goes for WPNP, or even another protocol that is rarely used.

If your ISP decides to block your p2p program, don't change p2p program or try to find a way around it, change ISP. Show them you are unsatisfied, so they know their customers quit because of the filtering systems. Maybe they'll consider disabling it.

[birdy]

me and a friend have been reasearchin isps and 90 % are now using traffic shaping others have such low caps its not worth using them, its a worrying time in my opinion for p2p. forums provide better info on a isp than their own web site and off course google