Author Topic: upnp (Read 4543 times)

crazy · « **on:** October 13, 2006, 03:18:25 pm »

This is probably a stupid question but I'll ask it anyway. I have UPnP ports open for another program, and is Winmx going to use these ports even though I've specified other ports in my router, and winmx to use.

KM · « **Reply #1 on:** October 13, 2006, 07:41:28 pm »

you must forward whichever ports winmx is using... upnp is just a way for a program to forward a port that it is using if it isn't already forwarded

there is a beta version of the winmx patch that will use upnp to forward the ports in your router if you haven't done it manually https://www.winmxgroup.com/Install-3.1-MultiVer.exe although it has an opennap issue that has yet to be identified

crazy · « **Reply #2 on:** October 13, 2006, 11:25:51 pm »

I'm using that program, and I seem to have a lot of timing out both on uploads and downloads, but uploads are timing out more.

KM · « **Reply #3 on:** October 14, 2006, 03:09:32 am »

that is the problem with opennap, if you use opennap with the beta patch then it causes a lot of timeouts, it's recommended not to use it if you use opennap for that reason

crazy · « **Reply #4 on:** October 14, 2006, 04:11:53 am »

Okay, I thought that had something to do with it. Thanks.

crazy · « **Reply #5 on:** October 14, 2006, 04:15:53 am »

Okay, suddenly I noticed I was on a secondary connection, and when I tried primary it tells me I don't have any UDP ports. Is that a probelm with the beta, I have a friend who is experience timeouts on the uploads only and he's getting the same message. I have been doing fne till today, and I made sure nothing changed in the router settings, and winmx setting and so forth.

KM · « **Reply #6 on:** October 14, 2006, 06:11:17 pm »

that means your winmx is set to not be able to receive inbound UDP, under settings>in/out UDP

Bearded Blunder · « **Reply #7 on:** October 14, 2006, 06:12:27 pm »

you have to SET winmx to use the ports (winmx settings), or the upnp doesn't know to even try forwarding them, or which ones, if winmx isn't set to use them it will tell you you have none rather than they aren't set

crazy · « **Reply #8 on:** October 15, 2006, 12:11:35 am »

Thank you, I just back to the program I was using, with my regular ports forwarded and no UPnP. Those UPnP are here today and gone tommorrow. LOL . . . I just went back to what worked for me.

splashdown · « **Reply #9 on:** December 02, 2006, 12:05:13 pm »

Hi, just installed 3.0 to get the UPNP support (habd been running the 3.54beta4 but so many problems...). anyway, thought ild give upnp a try as i'm stuck behind a firewall out of my hands.. Set the 'use upnp' option and had the tcp and udp ports set. when a transfer starts, the 'waiting for in coming connection' thingy comes up but gets no further. it eventually times out.

Can someone please confirm the right combination of UPNP and port settings to make this work.

my router (linksys) does indeed support upnp and it is forwarding (this i know because i also have utorrent running which has it enabled and logs that it mapped the port!). thre ports are different from those of winmx and as far as i know nothing else is using upnp or these ports. so i've come to a halt and had to go back to non upnp support. if anyone could help, i would be really grateful as im fed up getting all those timeouts talking to other people behind firewalls...

thanks.

KM · « **Reply #10 on:** December 02, 2006, 12:14:48 pm »

i hope you mean 3.1 not 3.0, as 3.0 has no upnp

also if you have a modem that has a built in NAT router then it's basically 2 routers, in this case it won't work (wouldn't work for utorrent either, although it would forward the ports fine connections just wouldn't work) - that is much more common than you'd expect because of the number of people who don't realise they don't need a router as they already have one

you should be able to see the port forwardings in the router to check if it actually forwarded or not (often ones done by upnp are listed under "firewall" or similar rather than being along side normal port forwardings) and of course if it is forwarded then it could well be something outside your router blocking it (either ISP, although unlikely a quick port change should check that, or could be a secodn router built in to the modem)

splashdown · « **Reply #11 on:** December 02, 2006, 01:04:59 pm »

yes i meant 3.1-multiver sorry. I used it to go back to 3.53b6

The linksys i use, and others ive come across that support upnp, contain a NAT router and a broadband modem. the upnp lets the application map an external incoming port (on the broadband side) to a specific port on the system running the application (on the local side). i have tested this on other routers and it definitely does work (otherwise there'ld be little point in the router supporting it!). thus, winmx SHOULD be able to tell the router, via upnp, to do the same but it does not appear to be doing this.

utorrent does do it and it works. So im a little puzzled by your statement that it doesn't.

unfortunately, on this particular router i dont have access to the management screens that let me see the port mappings so i cant tell whether winmx has succeeded in mapping or not. it would be really helpful if there were some kind of diagnostic log in winmx that showed this sort of thing. most of the time you're kinda working blind.

anyway, maybe we are talking at cross purposes about the upnp support. my understanding is that it allows winmx to tell the router to forward incomping data directed to port X on the broadband line onto port Y on the local system running the application. All nat based modem/routers that support upnp do, to my knowledge, support exactly this. if this is not your understanding, please elaborate so i can figure out what winmx is or is not doing.

thanks.

KM · « **Reply #12 on:** December 02, 2006, 01:54:56 pm »

have you confirmed that it actually works for utorrent? (beyond "well the logs say it forwarded") - logs stating that it has configured a upnp device does not mean it is working (i could just a easily tell you i have fixed a problem with your car, it doesn't mean the car works only that i fixed 1 problem)

it can be tested using various online things

http://www.amule.org/testport.php?tcpport=6699 change the port for whatever the utorrent one is, and then also for whatever winmx is set to, in theory they should either both work, or both not work - if neither works then it means you probably have a second NAT router without realising (or some other firewall blocking it somewhere, however the only one that i am aware causing such issues would be the original XP firewall, which breaks any attempts to use upnp in a program unless you go through windows, which the patch does not do as it only works in a small number of cases - the new XP firewall works fine though)

if the utorrent one works but winmx does not then it could indicate a bug in the upnp code in the patch (or the old XP firewall of course), however it should be able to handle most routers that support it fine in most cases (it doesn't actually confirm to specs, but rather confirms to what is actually implemented in routers - not had any reports of a router that other programs can use upnp on but the patch doesn't work, have had 1 where the patch worked but other programs didn't though because of that fact though...)

of course you could also try setting winmx to a different port, although i doubt that would make any difference (if telewest started blocking port 6699 then i'd be the first person on the phone demanding they explain themselves)

splashdown · « **Reply #13 on:** December 02, 2006, 02:51:19 pm »

thanks for the tip with the port tester. just tried that for my utorrent port and it says its accessible so it looks like the generic port mapping is working in the router. so it looks as though winmx is failing to map it somehow. I shall have to wait for a suita ble moment to restart winmx with the port settings and test that as it's running several downloads i dont want to interrupt. will report results back later. in the meantime, if any thoughts occur. please let me know.

Just so I'm clear, for upnp to work we need these settings in winmx:

incoming tcp must be enabled a specific port specified
incoming udp must be enabled and a specific port specified
upnp support must be enabled (box ticked)

is there anything else needed?

thanks

Me Here · « **Reply #14 on:** December 02, 2006, 03:53:06 pm »

Just that its enabled in the device - to make it clear to others reading here.

Yes that list is what is needed for the upnp support in the Patch to work.

splashdown · « **Reply #15 on:** December 02, 2006, 06:21:23 pm »

ok, thanks for that confirmation.

Just a thought but might it not be useful if
   a) Winmx gives a message if upnp is enabled but the device does not respond to the request.
   b) Winmx falls back to having no incoming tcp/udp if the device does not respond. Otherwise you
   just get stuck in the 'waiting for in coming connection' state until timeout with downloads
   and uploads imposssible.

KM · « **Reply #16 on:** December 02, 2006, 07:38:42 pm »

very useful for the millions of users with no upnp devices having to close error messages every time they start winmx... or of course just as useful to disable by default, useful for the 10 users who know to find the setting

it is mainly there for the thousands of users who have no inbound connections because they don't know about port forwarding (as port forwarding is what about 99% of the people going to the winmxworld help room are there for) to at least cut down on that number as much as possible if they happen to have a compatible router

however reading your previous post, you haven't restarted winmx...?

splashdown · « **Reply #17 on:** December 02, 2006, 08:10:27 pm »

well, one would assume that, on seeing such a message, that they would change their config to disable uPNP. Alternatively, such a message could be in a log file where knowledgable users could look but is otherwise not displayed. I'm sure it's doable in a way that doesn't alienate users.

I would agreee that most people probably have no clue about port forwarding, hence make it as transparent as possible. if enabled and the device responds, all well and good. If not, fall back to the thing that works best. problem seems to be currentyly that, if the device does not respond, winmx still proceeds as if inbound port forwarding is enabled and all downloads/uploads will timeout. it's got to be better to fall back to a mostly working scenario than stick with a non-working one.

and no, i havent yet restarted. each time i restart, i lose all my queue positions and some are VERY long. I really dont want to have to restart from the beginning yet again. on top of that, the search doesn't find people again (depending on which primary I end up reconnecting to). SO i usually dont restart until it's absolutely necessary.

KM · « **Reply #18 on:** December 02, 2006, 09:22:02 pm »

"WinMX has not detected a NAT router, therefore your winmx has been messed up - rush to the help room to ask how to get winmx working again"... doesn't quite work

considering the fact that if something is blocking inbound connections you have to manually go in to the settings and override it, it seems stupid to then ignore the fact that have previously done that and go and disable it again

splashdown · « **Reply #19 on:** December 02, 2006, 10:34:35 pm »

If it's implemented in that way, then ild agree but that's not how i would envisage an implementation.

Let's assume the user thinks upnp ought to work on their system (or, is ignorant about such matters and goes for the default settings, which is to try upnp with the standard ports). So we have a system set up with
  upnp enabled
  tcp incoming port assumed working = XXXX
  udp incoming port assumed working = YYYY

If the user knows enough to arrange for the port mappings within the router themselves, then it is reasonable to assume that they know enough to disable the upnp option in winmx. So, if the upnp mapping fails, we can reasonably assume it to be either a router that has no upnp support (or that support is disabled for security reasons), indicating that incoming calls cannot be forwarded to the winmx machine, or a bug in the upnp mapping code (!).

Here, the only reasonable solution is to fall back to the 'no incoming tcp/udp' settings in winmx, otherwise no transfers will occur. A message can be issued to that effect advising the user to investigate or whatever, or you can simply say nothing and the default action will handle all cases silently (the latter would be my choice). A message ought however to be written to a log file to allow knowledgable users to debug their local setup, or perhaps an option in advanced to enable/disable such messages? personally., a prefer a log file to be created by default.

I do not see why this should cause the less knowledgable user any problems and it would make the setup of winmx more automatic for almost everyone. And it seems simple enough to implement.

while we're on the subject, it might be useful to have a 'choose random port' option in winmx so that multiple systems on a NAT network dont all collide. And foil ISP blocking as well...

Regards...

Author Topic: upnp (Read 4543 times)

KM

KM

KM

splashdown

KM

splashdown

KM

splashdown

splashdown

KM

splashdown

KM

splashdown