re: the latest 'new' patch

[GnarlySnarly]

I just read this page:

https://www.winmxworld.com/tutorials/patch_information.html

which candidly admits:

"After nearly two years of operation WinMXGroup made the decision many had feared and closed their Cache Indexer and Caches, this then led to yet another effort to pick up the pieces by the community.
   The Future
Having relied twice now on solutions that involved a weak point, the community has learned its lesson and deployed a more robust system
that is not under the control of a single individual nor hosted in the same place, the solution deployed is now based on a new architecture and hopefully will be more enduring than its predecessors."

just who is 'the community' that has finally learned this lesson?

Does this 'community' include people from both 'sides'?  all sides?

who author's this new DLL patch?

is it open source for peer review and security?

how is making it 'more robust' achieved?

Are multiple different TLD's under control of different, independent admins coded into the DLL to replace the *.winmxgroup.com and *.winmxgroup.net hostnames?

What domains are encoded into this new DLL?

Who controls these domains?

What addresses do these domains resolve to [at present]?

Who controls the peer cache servers at these IPs?

Is there any neutral, uptodate list of available peer cache server IPs?

I have seen http://orion.untracedserver.com/check4.php and it appears to me to be a current list of many peer cache servers, though it doesn't purport to be neutral.

Is it now time to consolidate all trusted peer cache servers into a common list for a stronger WPN?


I know someone has to actually code the DLL, which makes it a single control point - but if it now done under some group consensus and 20 or 120 different domains are used to replace the original 120 winmx.com peer cache hostnames, then WPN can be considered to be "more robust" and not subject to the risks of the comings and goings of any single volunteer.  If there were ever 120 indy peer cache servers losing even 10 wouldn't cause a blip on WPN.

[GhostShip]

Welcome back Gnarly 

Some of your questions seem somewhat overlapping so I'll try to get the the meat of what your asking if that's ok.

The current patch is a modified winmxgroup release as that was the only way to meet the collapse problem in a short space of time whilst still ensuring that filtering and blocking where maintained, there is currently a group of 3 working on a new open src patch that hopefully will be more transparent to concerned users.

As you may have already guessed the addition of 2 more cache indexers should move us away from a single point of failure for the foreseeable future as its unlikely the 3 would all be "nobbled" at the same time as was able to occur with the winmxgroup architecture.

For now I have no wish to reveal the identities of those operating the index's as I believe it would serve no purpose except to help anti winmx folks target certain users, and rest assured they are all operated by users. I hope you agree this is a more responsible and long term outlook, it has also allowed for the addition of the large numbers of caches you envisaged, in future releases of patches its likely others will want adding to the list of indexers and there is currently no problem with doing this as its something that would benefit the entire community, of course only those known to be pro winmx, reasonably intelligent, calm and sound of mind will be chosen.

There is a list of cache addresses here
https://forum.winmxworld.com/index.php?topic=5122.0.html

Your other question about who controls the peer caches is sort of another of those questions I find more than intrusive as there is actually no good reason for you to know even this information, the caches are monitored and the users operating them well known to the community (yes, this winmx community ) .
You'll notice anyone operating a gnutella client does not have to give their personal details either so I don't see how helping the RIAA or anyone else will be of benefit to us here.
Please note if you have a fixed IP and an unlimited service stable line you too can join as a cache operator, the more the merrier.
Of course I do understand your concerns and whilst I would not be advising you take such action you can of course always use the pie option where you wont be told any information either

On the note of "neutral" list and matters I don't see any site or group except this one making any efforts to include more winmx users in the effort to keep mx rolling, in fact I can only say that thus far only one "rival" team was even willing to speak to us, this of course will be built upon in time but I do feel your addressing your comments over impartiality to the wrong group.


Please note Gnarly we are still working on devolving the whole connection/control into something controlled by the community for the community, and in this we see our new role as being to help provide the framework of concept utilisation, information to support this and tools to bring the vision to fruit, I hope you agree that this should be the way forward, of course if others wish to get involved the door is open for them to do so.

[J a M e S]

Also, note, Winmxgroup and winmxworld are 2 completly diffrent sites and run by 2 completly diffrent groupspeople, they just worked together...

Winmx group shut down, not winmx world

[GnarlySnarly]

Welcome back Gnarly 

Thank you. 

The current patch is a modified winmxgroup release as that was the only way to meet the collapse problem in a short space of time whilst still ensuring that filtering and blocking where maintained, there is currently a group of 3 working on a new open src patch that hopefully will be more transparent to concerned users.

As you may have already guessed the addition of 2 more cache indexers should move us away from a single point of failure for the foreseeable future as its unlikely the 3 would all be "nobbled" at the same time as was able to occur with the winmxgroup architecture.

Great to hear about the open source project.  As you know, I was one of the vocal ones raising concerns over the dangers of single-source when KM's DLL was first announced... and my dire warnings came to pass.  My critique at that time centered around a single person in control and a single point cache funnel.  Having some minimalist anarchist tendencies, I tend to favor cooperation and consensus decision making for group projects.  While I was critical of the situation then, my overall assessment was that the DLL concept held the most promise compared to the host list IF it was transparent and IF multiple, independent host domain name were encoded into it.  The later issuance of a host list installer and updater addressed some ease of use concerns also.

For now I have no wish to reveal the identities of those operating the index's as I believe it would serve no purpose except to help anti winmx folks target certain users, and rest assured they are all operated by users. I hope you agree this is a more responsible and long term outlook, it has also allowed for the addition of the large numbers of caches you envisaged, in future releases of patches its likely others will want adding to the list of indexers and there is currently no problem with doing this as its something that would benefit the entire community, of course only those known to be pro winmx, reasonably intelligent, calm and sound of mind will be chosen.

Fair answer.  Though I am quite sure the RIAA has the contacts and resources to trace down domain registrants and IP assignees.  I have no problem with this limited anonymity understanding that those that need to know likely do.

There is a list of cache addresses here
https://forum.winmxworld.com/index.php?topic=5122.0.html

This is a list of host names, not IP addresses.

Your other question about who controls the peer caches is sort of another of those questions I find more than intrusive as there is actually no good reason for you to know even this information, the caches are monitored and the users operating them well known to the community (yes, this winmx community ) .

Agreed, as above.

Please note if you have a fixed IP and an unlimited service stable line you too can join as a cache operator, the more the merrier.

As I am in occupied America, not sure how long I could get away with it for any length of time.  but hope springs eternal...

Of course I do understand your concerns and whilst I would not be advising you take such action you can of course always use the pie option where you wont be told any information either

On the note of "neutral" list and matters I don't see any site or group except this one making any efforts to include more winmx users in the effort to keep mx rolling, in fact I can only say that thus far only one "rival" team was even willing to speak to us, this of course will be built upon in time but I do feel your addressing your comments over impartiality to the wrong group.

I am happy not to use either final product, but of course rely on whatever peer cache servers are in service, which is why I asked about a composite, neutral list.  I still 'roll my own' host list.

Please note Gnarly we are still working on devolving the whole connection/control into something controlled by the community for the community, and in this we see our new role as being to help provide the framework of concept utilisation, information to support this and tools to bring the vision to fruit, I hope you agree that this should be the way forward, of course if others wish to get involved the door is open for them to do so.

I was away and oblivious to all the 'turmoil' of this latest event.  I always miss out on the fun :p

Your efforts appear to be headed in the right direction, even if it has taken 1 1/2 years and some sad events to get there.

I am not in the 'pie' camp and am not in communication with anyone there... don't even know who the 'pie team' is except for one name in the host list they distribute.  But from some of the posts I have read here recently, there still seems to be elements of antagonism against host fix users in general and the pie patch specifically and a continued hyping of our "DLL is the ONLY way".  I continue to believe this picture is less than objective.  But maybe you're playing to a different audience than those like me.

As Rodney rhetorically asked.. "Can't we just get along?"

I don't have a clue to the overall health or viability of WPN.  I do know that I like it and am comfortable with it.  I share thousands of educational, 'radical', historical type documents and media files - not into the latest pop songs, girlie pics, games or warez.. just info I think needs to be spread.  I haven't really looked much at alternative p2p aps for my purposes.. but torrents, while great for grabbing a copy of some popular file, is rather useless for my sharing needs since it has no search/browse function and can't handle sharing thousands of files at a time.

So until something MUCH better comes along as they tend to do in the net world, I will be a winmx diehard.  But me sitting here running 3 winmx fileserves can be rather pointless if there is not a robust community of people looking for the types of files I share and they help propagate them also.

To rebuild that community is the task at hand, and to do that, I think that both existing solutions, the DLL and the host list need to be respected for what they are and can do, so that users can be educated to the pros and cons of each.  And past that, the respective lists of peer caches need to be united and uniform.  Think inclusion, not exclusion.

[Bearded Blunder]

Quote from: GhostShip
There is a list of cache addresses here
https://forum.winmxworld.com/index.php?topic=5122.0.html

This is a list of host names, not IP addresses.

and ping is such a HARD utility to use if you REALLY want ip addresses from hostnames.....

[GhostShip]

Gnarly since its been a while we last debated the matter of host versus dll I wish to draw your atention to this.

 https://www.winmxworld.com/tutorials/fake_file_info.html

This will explain clearly enough the major reason we cannot agree with those issueing host files, the facts are clear on the matter,  if you have any further questions I would be pleased to answer them.

[GnarlySnarly]

I have seen http://orion.untracedserver.com/check4.php and it appears to me to be a current list of many peer cache servers, though it doesn't purport to be neutral

Today this URL is now 404
It seems whoever was offering this list of IPs of current operating peer cache servers has pulled it down.

[Me Here]

That was a winmxgroup server.