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WinMX World :: Forum  |  Discussion  |  WinMx World News  |  Crossmx
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Author Topic: Crossmx  (Read 11156 times)

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Offline Lagerlout666

  • Forum Member
Re: Crossmx
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2007, 06:39:25 pm »
so all this looks like its just a copy and paste job from the archives, 
boy i wish id thought of that, but if it I sa copy and paste job, why doesn't she just go an get benders robomx and rip out all the crap, the basic stuff is all in their, he even released a chat server, it was very very small when i seen it i thought he was going to implement it into robo mx to make it a full chat/server.

All this looks nice from the outside but is really starting to scare the shit out of me.
I also want to know if its going to connect as primary will all that code be extremely hidden, As you already mentioned about reverse enginering winmx will someone be able to reverse your crossmx easily?    as i can assure you just anybody finding out about the primary protocols will be a nightmare an the kiss goodbye to mx.

An app i want to say thanks for coming here and supporting crossmx, i just hope that you don't take what we say as obnoxious; as just a few of us know what were talking about and although you may take what we say as being sour grapes i can assure that they are not, just we want what you are trying to support to be at least usefull not a disaster that we all have to suffer the consequences off.
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Offline chuck

  • Forum Member
Re: Crossmx
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2007, 07:09:29 pm »
 Hmm is this vaporware or is it not? I dont really know but look at how many views this thread has generated in just 4 days. (366) Im not one for a 1 program that does all i find that it never does 1 thing right just more things half ass.But if Bughunter is working on a new program and even if it is useing the old protacall andlacks some features we really need i do have to say good work on trying.I dont see anyone ealse trying at the moment. And if we want to see mx grow there has to be something tried to make it new again. Ill never agree on chargeing for a winmx program or anyone makeing money off anothers work.Ive seen a few of you say a power surge will not kill a hard drive and a surge protector will stop that. Well i know that is wrong. Ive had it happen with a power surge protector. Sue they say that if you loos a pc or tv or what ever that its  guaranteed lol but try to collect it.Allways set your pc to not restart on power outage that will help stop that it does not take much to kill a hard drive.

 Im not saying i beleave all this but it can happen. The support of WinMX by Frontcode ended in 2005 when they received threats of legal action by the RIAA.
There has been nothing done to winmx by Frontcode Technologies in 2 years and with the RIAA and other's trying to rob the users more than ever i dought they even care about winmx any more.So all the against the law on reverseing mx is not so much to worry about.No more than opening a server to allow a network to connect to a closed p2p program.Im not saying that a law has been broken in doing so just that if they were going to sue over some thing that would be as good as any they dont really need a reason as they have proven.

 I dont know Bughunter or if she is honest, I do know of april and know she has tried to do some help for mx and made a few small programs as add ons. I dont agree with much of what she says or does but i do beleave she is trying to keep winmx up running and in the users eyes.

 I really dont think a multi program for mx is the way to go.We need a updated winmx and a clean network ,and do that right and people will take notice. If everyone here would put as much effort in to comeing up with a idea on updated winmx as they do in trashing others that are trying we could be a lot farther along in fixing mx than we are.(366) post in 4 days just to say BS to some one that is saying they are trying and  not one thread on improving or what is needed or how to improve winmx. That should say some thing about why we are no better off than we were 2 years ago.
Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Offline GhostShip

  • Ret. WinMX Special Forces
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Re: Crossmx
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2007, 11:23:01 pm »
Nice ol speech chuck the facts of course are in the public eye with regard to who has done what and who has not.

April has often been behind pay Mx schemes and has said she is leaving it more times that I have had chicken sandwiches, that aside its not her I,m interested in as she is not the one doing programming.

I took two months to work out the various protocols to assist in the building of a fully working primary client, so far no one has had the will or the skill to build it and yes I look into each and every person who seems to have some sort of talent in this realm, being good folks here we also offered to share the protocol with those building a client as long as it was made with a few proviso,s, these are rather simple and community supported.

1 There must be a promise of completion of the project, this was to put off those just seeking the info for their own selfish ends.

2 Must agree to keep the primary protocol to themselves and resist the urge to show off and publish it.

3 Anything made must be released free to all winmx users.

I feel these rules are simple to follow and so far we have only seen one or two folks even ask for the protocol with a view to a client, April did ask for the information but after a personal visit to her room by myself there was a concern that the information was going to be misused, (this was seriously discussed with other winmx suporting site operators to get a balanced view) and for this reason the request was declined.

I,m not a coder Chuck and dont claim to be but I feel I have done my bit in preparing the way for someone with the correct skills to construct us a client, I have supported many coders who visit here with information on techniques and where to obtain example src snippets for their programs, this all occurs behind the scenes here.

I,m not promising anyone anything I dont intend to deliver on but I too am working on a client codebase, so are others, including many who support pie, its never been my wish to censor work that brings us nearer to being able to move forward, I share some bonds with April in believeing we need some fresh code to revitalise many projects but I dont agree it should be at any cost. 

Feel free to search this site for requests for coders made every now and then, this is a way forward and whilst its not heavily publicised it is one of my aims for the community to assist coders when possible, to not only build a client but also learn in stages how to gather key information before taking on such a task.

This was posted in the thread on slycks regarding the blocking patch Chuck, we have aimed to comply with our own promises to the community

http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23169

Patience is whats required, I cannot force anyone to build a program they dont want to. but I have helped many take the first steps in doing so.





Offline chuck

  • Forum Member
Re: Crossmx
« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2007, 12:09:33 am »
Well Ghost let me be the second to pat you on the back for your help.But you have missed the point of my post all together.  Look at the hits on this thread in just 4 days 399 now and all thread has done is trash bug and april. I dont know eaither of them other than aprils speeking up for takeing money for work in the past and a few programs that  were no more use than large text maker. The whole point of the post was if we would put this much time in to working together on some thing for mx as we do to trash say bug hunter our time would be better spent. This thread has had more action than any other thread on the forum in the last few days.

 I do beleave it was you that said we should  try to stop fighting and work more toward helping. I may be wrong on that. it may not have been you.
Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

app

  • Guest
Re: Crossmx
« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2007, 06:35:29 am »
April has often been behind pay Mx schemes and has said she is leaving it more times that I have had chicken sandwiches, that aside its not her I,m interested in as she is not the one doing programming.

What pay mx schemes have I been behind?

Name one!

You claim there was more than that by your use of the word 'often'.

Throw your proof on the table. Don't attack my integrity unless you are going to back it up with proof.


Quote
I feel these rules are simple to follow and so far we have only seen one or two folks even ask for the protocol with a view to a client, April did ask for the information but after a personal visit to her room by myself there was a concern that the information was going to be misused, (this was seriously discussed with other winmx suporting site operators to get a balanced view) and for this reason the request was declined.


You wanted to give it....for a price...one I wasn't willing to pay, which is why you retracted the offer.

I didn't ask you for it. You offered it in exchange for BugHunter's private personal info, which I was unwilling to give you without her permission.

hello app,

 thanks  for the answer  ! 

if she uses a TMemo as i can see in his components  , the chatroom window  will be  with only one color.

The screenshot I provided is NOT CrossMX. It is NOT BugHunter's IDE.

It's my project in my IDE. Something completely different that I am working on at the suggestion of BugHunter. She gave me the component for the project. There will be other components from CrossMX that she will be giving me, as well, as soon as they are finished and tested.

The project I am working on is for my own use and I have no plans at this time to offer it to the public.

What you see there is from a simple demo chat client that uses the TMXChat component that BugHunter gave me.

It was asked that I provide a little more info on the component (TMXChat), which I did. The screenshot of the additional component list from the treeview wasn't necessary, but I included it any way. I am sorry if this caused some confusion.

In Delphi, recycling code is very easy once it has been written into a component. You can install that component into your IDE and just drop it where you need it. The ease of sharing and distributing of components is one of the things that sets Delphi apart from some other languages.

Yes Bide, i do believe that if my memory serves me right, the MXChat was the old Nushi type protocals from WinMX3.31 it had 1 main colour and an /action colour as you know, looks like we are going bacwards, i was happy when we got away from 3.31 & RCMS due to their instability when using rtf codes.

That component is not based on the old nushi mxchat or the 3.31 protocol. Do not assume things like that based on a name or based on a seperate project that uses the same component as CrossMX.

um... is it just me, or does this appear to be nothing more than a very rough framework for a chat client?

Did I understand it wrong? I thought this was to be a functioning peer for file transfers for several p2p systems... Is it ONLY a chat client for those systems?

You are confused. The screenshot isn't CrossMX. It is something I am working on that uses a common component. (my project doesn't have a name yet)

And yes, what you see is simple, but that is because I don't need it fancy for what I am doing, which is NOT crossmx. It is something for my own purposes. And it most likely will not even have a GUI when I am finished with it.

Please refer to BugHunter's words to see what CrossMX contains.

so all this looks like its just a copy and paste job from the archives, 
boy i wish id thought of that, but if it I sa copy and paste job, why doesn't she just go an get benders robomx and rip out all the crap, the basic stuff is all in their, he even released a chat server, it was very very small when i seen it i thought he was going to implement it into robo mx to make it a full chat/server.

Copy & paste of what? from what archives? I don't recall any archives containing any winmx related object pascal code that wasn't written by BugHunter, herself. So if she is copy & pasting anything, it's recycling her own work.

Quote
All this looks nice from the outside but is really starting to scare the shit out of me.
I also want to know if its going to connect as primary will all that code be extremely hidden, As you already mentioned about reverse enginering winmx will someone be able to reverse your crossmx easily?    as i can assure you just anybody finding out about the primary protocols will be a nightmare an the kiss goodbye to mx.

I have discussed this with her and she will be taking steps to protect the application from all the little script kiddies. This is the primary reason for not making it open source. I know it upsets some linux users that they won't have the source to CrossMX and only will have access to a compiled version...but I think we all understand that unless/until the protocol can be made much more secure that this is the way it has to be.

Quote
An app i want to say thanks for coming here and supporting crossmx, i just hope that you don't take what we say as obnoxious; as just a few of us know what were talking about and although you may take what we say as being sour grapes i can assure that they are not, just we want what you are trying to support to be at least usefull not a disaster that we all have to suffer the consequences off.

I don't want this project to be a disaster. I don't want to hurt the winmx network.

I want to see winmx thrive, grow, become a shining symbol of sucess against those that seek to destroy p2p and free speech. I want winmx to forever be a thorn in the side of the **AA's.

It just seems as if the groups involved here have lost sight of the fact that we are not the enemy...they are. We shouldn't be fighting each other. We should be working together. And I don't mean as a single team producing one solution. I mean as many teams offering many options.

There should be no one group that is in total control. That is quite dangerous for the network. I am not even comfortable with only 2 solutions, because if one gets knocked out, then we are staring at only 1 again. I don't like the idea of all the eggs in one basket. It's a recipe for disaster. We had all our eggs in one basket when Frontcode was running the show.

But that doesn't mean that I want to be part of a power struggle or war. I am a peace loving person. I can't handle all this insane conflict that is going on with the network. Every time I feel compelled to step up and defend something I believe in, I end up physically ill after a short time. I can't handle the stress of it. That's why I keep walking away.

I won't give my life for winmx. It isn't worth dying for.

And one final note on the issue that keeps coming up about charging users for CrossMX...

CrossMX will be free to use for anybody that wants it. Nobody will ever have to pay for it.

Those developers that have contributed to the project will be mentioned in the about box with links to where you can donate to them if you choose to do that. This was BugHunter's decision and she is giving the credit to those that are contributing and adding the links.

Donating is an option...not something forced. And you will be able to choose EXACTLY who you donate to. You will not be forced to donate...you will not be forced to donate to me. I do not anticipate ever recieving $1 from this. I will not be accepting any money on behalf of anybody else.

The way this will be done is that if you choose to toss some cash to BugHunter, you can click her donation link in the about box.

If you choose to donate to the person responsible for the Ares work, you can click his link.

If you choose to donate to the person responsible for the artwork, you can click that link.

BTW...how many people actually look in the about box any way? The method that is being used is very similar to the one used in Spybot, which is technically donationware, not freeware.

But how many of you use Spybot and have donated? Very few, I am guessing. That request for a donation that is in Spybot doesn't stop you from using it for free, does it? Do you see anything wrong with the developer accepting donations for his work? I don't.

The concept of donationware is often misunderstood. There are those that think that people get rich off donationware. They don't.

I know a developer that has a few very popular programs that he could be charging money for as shareware but has chosen for ethical reasons to release as donationware.

As shareware he could have made a fortune...enough to pay off his student loans, buy a house, a car, never have to go work for another company and devote all his time into his programs.  But as donationware, he is lucky if he makes enough to buy a cup of coffee every day.

I have 12 applications released as donationware. Over the last year I have made a total of less than $300 combined, more than half of which I donated to other donationware authors...some of which I don't even use their software but appreciate the effort they put forth in the creation of it.

In one year's time, I have only had 3 people click the paypal link on my website...2 of which did it to donate to me for a reason other than my software and they had to do a lot of arm twisting to get me to accept it.

Someone once donated $0.50 to me because I was a female coder. Wow! It is going to be really hard to not spend that all in one place. And just think...paypal wants their cut, so it ended up being even less. I appreciated it though. It's the thought that counts.

I take more pleasure in a thank you email from someone that uses my software than the anonymous donations made through a site I am affiliated with. I just want to help people and make them happy. I don't want to get rich.

Smiles are payment enough for me.

I would rather read things like this:

http://my.opera.com/davidalanrichards/blog/show.dml/398161

http://flashdrivefreak.wordpress.com/2007/01/16/procrastination-help/

http://www.donationcoder.com/Forums/bb/index.php?topic=4602

http://makemorehavemore.blogspot.com/2007/01/stop-watching-clock-thanks-to-instant_07.html

Offline Bide & Musique

  • Forum Member
Re: Crossmx
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2007, 07:50:16 am »
hello everybody,

app, ok for your answer to my question. Now i am waiting for the first version of crossmx. If you need help for you project ,  maybe i can help you. I am just a modest delphi programmer ( look for my winmx bot :  bidebotmx ). 

                                                                            /0\

Offline chuck

  • Forum Member
Re: Crossmx
« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2007, 07:57:23 am »
 April and Ghost i hope you both understand it has not been my intention to trash or down eaither of you. Just to try to stop the useless trashing of any help to make winmx a better program. I know many have tried to get every one to work together and its done no good but all we can do is hope that one day every one can see that  all we are doing is slowing the process of makeing mx a stronger P2p  network by by trying to keep a useless war of words going.  We need the blocking that the DLL gives and we need all the users to work together  to come up with a good working  network.

We have worked for many years against each other and we are no makeing any head way. If we could just try to work together for this next year together  we may really save winmx and make it the P2P to use. I know im just hopeing. Isnt it time for us all just to say ok that was then this is now and really start a thread on what the users want and what we need and all try to work in one direction?  and if donations will help and people give it freely and not made to then whats the harm? I just like many users that have stuck with winmx from the start  would like to see it be around for years to come.

  Sorry if ive made anyone mad over my post but  the name calling and fighting isnt getting us any where. We all agree some thing needs to be done. I would be happy to help in any way ive got 5 computers sitting here doing nothing not saying im smart enough to do any thing with them but i like many others are willing to learn and help in any way.
Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Offline GhostShip

  • Ret. WinMX Special Forces
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Re: Crossmx
« Reply #47 on: March 25, 2007, 02:10:55 pm »
People can only join in on an open src project Chuck, no one is offering such a project currently.

I dont agree with you that "we" have been working against anyone, more truthful would be the claim that we are winmx users doing our best to keep things moving up till now, KM is still working on enhancing his patch as well as testing code for other projects, I,m learning new skills and working on a project that as you say provides divesification as well as general research, and as I mentioned previously many others from all sides are hard at it, each one is aware of the pitfalls of publicisng before anything solid has been shown, winzo was an independant groundbreaking project and was greeted warmly enough by all.

When discussions arise on a new client now, we have many hurdles to jump such as what programming language, what O/S platform, open or closed src , are the programmers known to the community or have any history of coding skill, all this is taken into consideration and help given where appropriate, this is the best we can do Chuck, coders are not springing from the wings to set to work on what could be a 6 months to a year project that will not gain them anything excpt the thanks of us all and for many thats ok, for others its not.
We can only move forward by community discussion and then action, to do otherwise opens up the door to frustration of efforts that see many left bitter.

Our main problem is the primary tcp protocol is what you may call "ropey" and open to misuse, while this is so its not a good idea to publish it, perhaps some changes could be worked out that would allow it to become more robust, this would mean dropping all existing clients unless implemented correctly, this of course is if all would agree to the changes.

Its frustrating for all really, each set of choices for moving forward ends up stepping on many toes and then the trouble begins.

My suggestions to anyone building a client is to work in stages, chat client,  Secondary filesharing client, chatserver filesharing client and then finally Primary client using code from all the proceeding projects, alternatively a simple filesharing secondary project can be used to build up to a primary client with no chat whatsoever.
In this way a solid bug free code base can be made and plenty of experience put to good use.

The future does not rest with winmxworld or any other site, it rests with the community as a whole who need to volunteer their skills for the benefit of us all, I know we have many talented people out there who may be unaware that they are required, many feel that all the work that needs to be done is done by magic, its not, its by long boring hard work and there are no shortcuts from that fact.

I feel your post is somewhat preaching to the converted Chuck, if you could perhaps persuade those who will not co-operate then that would be a victory for us all, those who wish to make a winmx related project will always be supported here at the level they require, as this is the correct path to take in my opinion.

CarefulApp

  • Guest
Re: Crossmx
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2007, 09:09:43 am »
Those developers that have contributed to the project will be mentioned in the about box with links to where you can donate to them if you choose to do that. This was BugHunter's decision and she is giving the credit to those that are contributing and adding the links.

Donating is an option...not something forced. And you will be able to choose EXACTLY who you donate to. You will not be forced to donate...you will not be forced to donate to me.

Be very careful app, most here struggle with the principal of donations, in fact i would be careful mentioning a donation button on your website, just make sure your host can handle a huge huge number of users who might suddlenly want to view your site all at once......

KM

  • Guest
Re: Crossmx
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2007, 11:13:58 am »
People don't have a problem with donations as far as I am aware... they do have a problem with someone tricking people in to giving them money for things that it isn't going towards though - for example someone taking money claiming it is going towards running the network when they don't have anything to do with running the network and it is merely going in to their own pocket

Offline GhostShip

  • Ret. WinMX Special Forces
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Re: Crossmx
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2007, 09:37:41 pm »
Indeed KM, Unfortunately Nobby who posted above yourself seems ok with his friends asking for donations to run the network when in fact they take no part in any part of it let alone use the winmx client anymore.

My concern is that new users are taken in and mislead by such charlatans into becoming pawns in the game of hate conducted by some folks, and the network damaged by the ignorance of those they trust to advise them.

Offline ]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.

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Re: Crossmx
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2007, 09:43:13 pm »
here we go again  :roll: 4 more pages of arguments to come
      

Offline chuck

  • Forum Member
Re: Crossmx
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2007, 10:35:38 pm »
 I agree again Hell . I dont think anyone here would mind helping with a donation to a programer if asked and can see that such work would better winmx for all user . But come on really you cant say out of one side of your mouth that winmx is free and anyone asking for you to pay for it is a scammer and out the outher side of your mouth you have google ad's on the same page for you to buy winmx.

 You dont ask for money for some thing youve never done like keep the n etwork running when you dont even have 1 server. You have to understand that when people see a site that does the google pay for winmx ad's and also askes for donations for keeping the network up and has no servers that if they then ask for donations for the work on a new  client that people are going to jump all over that.

 Ive tried to stop all the argueing over this BS in my last few post on this thread said forgive and  forget and all work together. But there are some that i dont think winmx meens anything but  a arguement . Nobby how did your post help any thing at all? people had moved away from trashing each other and you chose to post and start it all again.  This should show everyone just what you are all about. You need to get over your self your not that important  your just a user on mx just like all of us winmx would not stop if you were gone it didnt when vladd left. So lead , fallow or get out of the way.  lol these are the people that are saying they can save winmx. God help us!
Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Offline GhostShip

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Re: Crossmx
« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2007, 12:33:37 am »
I actually had a bet going with another of the wmw roomies that was if I posted something about Nobby/pie on this thread we would see Chuck or Hell come out not to offer help but to take on those argueing in the thread, lol

Sorry guys but your getting too predictable. :lol:

On a more serious note:

It may have escaped the attention of most but there is nothing to fight over, we have stood our moral ground and kept to doing as we claimed, others can come and go but we havent gone into the woodwork, all the false claims made have been seen for what they were, we have set out our plans for the next 3 to 4 months, whats to fight over in reality ?

We all came to Mx to enjoy and have some fun and I think we should always remember if its not fun then maybe its time to take a small break, nothing will collapse while your away  :)

Can I suggest we move on from this project thread until fresh news is heard from those running it ?



Offline chuck

  • Forum Member
Re: Crossmx
« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2007, 01:07:51 am »
Sorry to say Ghost but a fast look back at this thread and its easy to see you were  the one who took great joy at pointing out April and Bug and what you may think is going on so i would not throw rocks in a glass house. Youve kept it going on as much as anyone. There are a few of us that have bets going on between you or km but ill say no more about that till the day comes.
Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Offline ]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.

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Re: Crossmx
« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2007, 03:58:41 am »
my last post
         "here we go again   4 more pages of arguments to come"
this was in reaction to  the fact that the last time nobbys name was mentioned on this site there was a free for all bitchfest by the site admins with him lasting severall pages & if you like to check back i pointed out at the time how boring it was getting ... i posted the above comment to perhaps save another performance of bitching for the sake of it to perhaps defuse the situation...but as ever when ppl post on here something that's not agreed with by the admins there has to be a stupid comment made as a form of defence against going ahead and doing as they like anyway  eg         "Chuck or Hell come out not to offer help but to take on those arguing in the thread"

point 1
why would i come out and help over this when its laughable when the admins and nobby start arguing? afterall its not my fight
point 2
i don't know chuck from Adam ( although i must say he seems a stand up guy who makes a lot more  valid points  & isn't afraid to air them than a good few people on here)
point 3
 i also had a bet with a winmx roomie that when i posted a certain article about a certain person  having full controll of winmx the admins would disappear up there own backsides rather than comment for fear of upsetting the certain person ...a bet that i appear to have won also as there has not been a single reply to the post by a admin of this site in 7 days ....but up till the post they just couldn't wait to make sarcastic comments or try belittle any points made that they didn't agree with.
also i would like to point out that i post on here in one form of another most days when i am around if i see a topic where i can help advise or have a point to make.... so for my part suggesting i only come out to argue is hardly a valid point to make ghost & from what i have seen of chucks posts it would seem the same would apply for him as well, so perhaps instead of implying things such as the above you might be better served as chuck was so kind to point out

                                             "not throw rocks in a glass house"

Then when this advise is taken things might not get so out of hand & situations inflamed on this forum by people who should know better and take the moral high ground rather than start an all out bitchfest over people such as nobby & co
i post when i have a point i think needs making or i am asked by others to find something out ....not just for the sake of a argument ( i can do that 24/7 in my room if i so wish )

as for this comment

 "We all came to Mx to enjoy and have some fun and I think we should always remember if its not fun then maybe its time to take a small break, nothing will collapse while your away  "

perhaps you should add on the end .....it wont change either ( if judging by recent events is anything to go by) not for a long long time anyway....... or unless a certain person says so
      

Offline ]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.

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Re: Crossmx
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2007, 04:00:39 am »
btw chuck stop following me around people are starting to talk  :lol: :wink:
      

Offline abqaiq animal

  • Forum Member
Re: Crossmx
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2007, 09:23:39 am »
 "We all came to Mx to enjoy and have some fun and I think we should always remember if its not fun then maybe its time to take a small break, nothing will collapse while your away  "



oh my god i agree  100% with what you say
your last statement sums it up perfect
its only something to do while your downloading   ffs

Offline abqaiq animal

  • Forum Member
Re: Crossmx
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2007, 09:42:34 am »
ps
in the real world people are born and people die
in cyber space  people want you dead
and send fictional  people to do it ( 4 are after me at the moment )
or so ive been told)
 but what the hell ive been threatend by experts lol
so im not to bothered ive done my stints
for my queen and country  so i have nothing to prove
so i will quote robert burns
" "O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us! "


Offline abqaiq animal

  • Forum Member
Re: Crossmx
« Reply #59 on: March 28, 2007, 09:44:46 am »
thats not a dig at you
hell on earth just that i agree with what you posted mate

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