Author Topic: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ? (Read 31424 times)

~~Blitzen~~ · « **Reply #40 on:** May 06, 2010, 09:50:12 am »

Do you have some ip ranges of the harvesters that could be added to a block list and then used with peerblock as a tempory measure or is it that as they are connecting to primaries as secondaries to gather the data from searches it is not possible to block them from connecting to yourself or gathering data from you?

Bluey_412 · « **Reply #41 on:** May 06, 2010, 09:57:14 am »

Snip, Snip, Snip...

Savage Blades · « **Reply #42 on:** May 06, 2010, 10:12:21 am »

I have seen topics just like the one on the other winmx forum...
Now, let's all countdown till that thread is deleted...

Bluey_412 · « **Reply #43 on:** May 06, 2010, 10:28:02 am »

Reckon their egos might prevent it staying?

Lagerlout666 · « **Reply #44 on:** May 06, 2010, 11:31:56 am »

They are connecting secondry to the network, so the IP's we can see are the primarys they are using, so other than the volume its impossible to see the IP doing the actual search.The protection you have is the same for them. We already conducted searchs for the IP's and we have their IP's added in our blocklist. So they are unable to connect to any of our primarys. But hostfile users are buggered and are causing the damage, as the only way to stop it other than removing the hostfile users is add primary level filtering, ie new patch, prob easier new client or just block every hostfile user on the planet.

Savage Blades · « **Reply #45 on:** May 06, 2010, 11:47:31 am »

"just block every hostfile user on the planet."
so you are saying this is possible ??

Pri · « **Reply #46 on:** May 06, 2010, 12:08:47 pm »

It would be unfeasible to distribute any kind of blocklist containing all the IP's of Mxpie patch users. The list would be first of all quite large and as soon as its 'finished' it would be out of date. Due to users having dynamic IP's. Also we don't have a good way to detect Pie users from our own users so collecting their IP's to begin with would be troublesome.

The only real way to reliably 'Block' Pie users is to stop Sabres caches from indexing the primary peers of users that are using the community patch. This would stop the peers from their network from being able to connect to users on our network basically segregating it.

Lagerlout666 · « **Reply #47 on:** May 06, 2010, 01:08:54 pm »

Introducing something like KM's old style lock in yes savage, and splitting the network. And Pri is right, it is far too dynamic.

Savage Blades · « **Reply #48 on:** May 06, 2010, 02:33:12 pm »

Quote

how many countless users driven away by the fact that the fake files make it hard to get anything... and what did pie do about it? they actively encourage more flooding, and tell people to remove the filters so they can see those fake results!

how many users were driven away by the delays getting connected to the network before winmxgroup started blocking? the sole reason being the flooders, if left uncontrolled they will destroy winmx... what have pie done to get around that issue? do they get users to block? no, they tell them to remove blocking, do they maintain a list of flooders for those who do decide to hunt for a way to block? no, they refuse to

and of course how many users have been driven away from winmx by the last couple of days where pie users have been offline "winmx wont work" just like the shut down, and pie refused to tell people how to reconnect, telling them to just go away and try again later until they can update pie, refusing to admit there is any way to connect except waiting for pie to release an updated text file "in a few hours at least"... how many users did we lose because of that?

I wouldn't like to even guess how many users pie have driven away from winmx with their lies and refusal to listen to anyone who talks sense... however I'm sure it would be above the million mark...

The above quote was taken from a thread dated June 17, 2006
the whole thread is an interesting read, one I had not seen before
here: https://forum.winmxworld.com/index.php?topic=2474.120.html

My sentiment is the same in 2010, how many MXPie Info 3.6 users have become so frustrated with winmx and left the network ??
Nothing much has changed, they still manage to convert Community Patch users, still today....
This sickens me....
Everyone has been so "diplomatic" and "fair"... this sickens me too..
Enough is enough..
What needs to be done, should be done..
If that means flooding the channel lists with room names like "Pie 3.6 Patch Users - Urgent Update Required" etc etc
then so be it.. As it is now .info winmx help rooms still out number CP help rooms....
How about some good people who already host a room editing their titles for a while ??

I dunno, but talking about it seems a waste of time, that has been done again and again... "Action" is needed
What changed ??

~~Blitzen~~ · « **Reply #49 on:** May 06, 2010, 02:47:54 pm »

I agree with you savage it is time today to do what has to be done, no more talking it is action time! every minuite wasted is more data gathered by the harvesters .................

Joshua203 · « **Reply #50 on:** May 06, 2010, 04:39:05 pm »

well yes i do agree about informing the people that just don t know what to believe, i do still have alot of doubts about splitting the network and making the overall WinMX community loose lots of users (because there's no doubt we re not talking about a hand full of hostfile(pie) users... there s alot of them!

i v e been reading some posts on the dutch pie forum and had to quit because it's just unbelievable how ignorant these people are(the helpers/roomhosts/forum Mod/admins), example if people state they are n t even using some blocking device openly , they just seem to forget they read that part and just help them (or try to help) connect (and believe me these are not old posts but this month's posts!), most of the advice i read is really like my grandpa would be advising about modern technique (he would also say don t use it it 's bad if he was still alive)

i m sorry i m not gonna post in there because i know my character and i would be getting verry angry verry fast, get rude .. etc etc.... again i m sorry not trying to convert their way of doing stuff ..believe me i got my reasons!

if we re going down the path of having room topics.. well i will join and retitle my dead test room24/7 and maybe setup some other servers during the time my pc is switched on.. but i would not be in there alot to chat

in short .. yes i agree something has to change.. no i don t think we want to loose users and split the network

i ll make sure to know when we re going to advertise this info in the roomlist if we re going to, because i think it would be best if this is done in one go! to get the biggest impact possible

greetings,

...Joshua203

*edit: modified a couple of times for spelling reasons and readability

*

~~Blitzen~~ · « **Reply #51 on:** May 06, 2010, 09:13:57 pm »

The posts made on the other site have indeed now been removed which speaks volumes and indicates they will not be helping close the door on the harvesters

GhostShip · « **Reply #52 on:** May 06, 2010, 09:37:34 pm »

Its pretty clear then that they have both no clue what they are talking about in the technical dept and no defense for their anti WinMX activities, by removing those post its also sending a clear message to all that Pie info prefer the attackers on the network over genuine WinMX users.

I think I need say no more.

Savage Blades · « **Reply #53 on:** May 07, 2010, 03:05:48 am »

So when our friends over at pie.com came on board with the Community Patch..
What happened ?
I assume the update bar changed.. ?
i assume that even though there was a message in the update bar,
many users considered the update was unneeded as winmx still worked.. ??
So ideally, a 3.6 patch user needs to be unable to connect to winmx network (yellow flashing) AND an update message !
Now I know this will probably never happen... but considering how ignorant many users are, this seems the best option...

I also know many winmx users will never load the channel list.... ever...
They are happy winmx connects and works... how can we let them know change is in the air ? ( without update bar MSG )

Sure, I would hate to see any users leave winmx due to a split in the network...
Some would be lost, but I also think many would go in search of answers too..
So something drastic, would have the most impact, in many 3.6 users looking to alternatives, plain and simple...

Let's see what ideas people have !
1. Buy Sabre's caches (I would donate $50US to the fund...)
2. ?

White Stripes · « **Reply #54 on:** May 07, 2010, 05:58:41 am »

damned if you do... damned if you dont... ...its ~6yr old 'end-of-life' software thats holding onto users about as well as a cup with a hole holds water....

blinking yellow with update bar screaming 'update' would be best but not possible.... buy sabres caches? not feesable... lot of money out and he could just relocate them (update to pie 3.7!)....

diplomacy is not possible.... DoS and DDoS is immature and has the potential problem of causing a serious backlash; such as causing more users to not trust 'community' at all and if hosts wont connect that means yet another user lost..

its time to draw the line in the sand.... split the network.... after all... at the rate of 'user loss' it has now... what else is there to loose? if the anwer is 'the whole wpn' .... then ... well... like the mars rovers, winmx has performed beyond what it was designed to do and its just 'its time' (as much as that may really suck)....

Joshua203 · « **Reply #55 on:** May 07, 2010, 06:58:14 am »

so now because we can t get Sabre to kill the pie way.. we commit suicide??? geeezzz great idea.. one thing true and sensible i guess was said .. we can t take control over THEIR updatebar... or can we ??? lol that would be fun

White Stripes · « **Reply #56 on:** May 07, 2010, 07:18:16 am »

would you rather get a risky operation for a problem to completely cure/save yourself but could potentially kill you instantly on the table? or would you rather slowly bleed to death?

...honest question to all...

Bluey_412 · « **Reply #57 on:** May 07, 2010, 08:52:27 am »

Quote from: Blitzen on May 06, 2010, 06:00:08 am

It seems this debate has been moved onto their site and needs to be seen !

https://forum.mxpie.info/mxpiehelptopic4498.html

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, Thread has been deleted, musta got too hot for 'em

Savage Blades · « **Reply #58 on:** May 07, 2010, 10:57:54 am »

I reckon they know the difference on the other forum, seems with their words, and attitudes, that they are out to destroy winmx...
Makes me feel that they are getting some financial aid in doing so...
There is no such thing as free speech, or debate on the other forum...
Just a delete, button......

wonderer · « **Reply #59 on:** May 07, 2010, 01:57:46 pm »

If a limb is infected with gangrene in most cases it has to be amputated to save the rest of the body.
The mxpie.info part is infected with flooder and dataminer.

In my humble opinion it is time after all these years to save the healthy part of the peer.
The stubborn host file user that is not willing to see the dangers has lost the right on my support to be connected to the peer.

Since the mxpie.info team seem to refuse any discussion about blocking/filtering, and in that nothing has changed in the last 4 or 5 years, is witholding the mxpie users any information about the growing dangers of their methode to connect to the peer and in their help attempts simply forget to tell primary users the need to set up any kind of protection in the form of an IP blocking system, how inefficient it may be, it must be clear it is a hopeless case.