Belated Merry Xmas To All & Happy New Years Wishes

[Bieb]

First is dowloadspeed and I mentioned it before is depending on sources and bandwidth and tcp/ip being an over 50 year old protocol, it is still the best there is. This cannot be changed by different clients.
Quality of files, If you take newsgroups, or any p2p, there are great differences in quality of content and as I don't think WinMx is meant to get CD quality music or HD-TV movies but for sharing and discussing samples there is no need to share 80Gb files. You will have to find resources giving good quality and will learn to shift the crap.

I don't need to go over your opinion on tcp/ip as Pri has already covered what was wrong in your claim.

However in regards to the quality of files and how it differs from place to place is completely true. And I agree that WinMX as it has aged is now not for actually obtaining and sharing great new material because you just can't anymore. You can't share HD movies and tv shows which is what people are wanting now that everyone is getting HDTV's. They are no longer burning dvd rips to dvd's, they are streaming their HD movies over their xbox, ps3, boxee, apple tv, etc.  technology is evolving and WinMX is not. It cannot provide the high quality files that people actually want.

And when you say that you have to search out communities I assume you mean chats. Take for an example Pri's room. It's a tv and movie room which I have been a part of for a little over a year now. NONE of the content comes from WinMX. ALL of the movies and tv shows come from private torrent sites geared specifically for tv and movies. And unfortunately it all has to be of lower resolution and quality because HD movies range from 4GB to well over 40GB. Something WinMX cannot share.

When you think about it, there are no new actual p2p networks popping up. We don't see any new networks like gnutella, or the wpnp popping up where you use the actual program to search for files. Everything is now web based or "in the cloud". This complements what I was saying earlier about how technology is evolving.

What you see now is new private bitorrent websites popping up each geared for a specific type of media.

I myself am part of the biggest private music tracker which is also one of the hardest ones to get into on the internet. It has every music album you could ever think of in 6 different formats each. And there are seeds for every single one. You can find every Beatles album from every single time it has been released in all 6 formats (FLAC, MP3-v0, MP3-v2, MP3-320, AAC-320, OGG-Q8) and get it within minutes. There is detailed information on each album and a large community of music loving members who contribute in the forums, IRC, and uploading their own personal music collections.


Now if you were to try and find say the "1980 - Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab / MFSL 1-023 / JVC Japan ''SuperVinyl' version of the Beatles album "Abbey Road" on WinMX you will not succeed. Because all you are given is the filename followed by the file extension.

It's the same for movies. There are hundreds and hundreds of private torrent sites that are all geared for different genres of movies. HD movies, hd tv shows, anime, japanese, film societies, and on and on..

It is just easier to find the actual content that you want using bittorent and of course IT IS faster to get especially using private torrent sites that are geared for what you are looking for and when you actually need to seed back to stay a remember everything has sources.

 

So when I see you mention that WinMX isn't for high quality media files (what people actually want) why even bother saving the network. It's serving no purpose according to your statements. As every torrent site has their own community talking about what that torrent site is geared for and it actually has the files to supplement the conversation.

I never have been virus infected by files I downloaded from WinMx which I cannot say from many other filesharing groups I tried. This might be just because WinMx users are of a different specimen than lets say kaaza.

Sharing albums or series is provided in WinMx if you share lists of filehashes.

Again this goes with my pro bitorrent rant above. Stay away from the public sites and get yourself into a small niche torrent community specializing in the files that you're wanting and you will always get what you want. There are no viruses, there are no fake files, only real high quality stuff that you want.

And the reason WinMX is not full of files like it used to be is due to the lack of teenagers. You CAN NOT deny that the majority of the WinMX userbase was made up of the consuiming population of the world. The teenagers, their parents, their siblings. All users that just look for the newest latest place to get their files. (The ones who used limewire and made it popular) That large userbase of millions. They didn't know that they shared back to the network what they downloaded. They just knew that they could get music. They are not the ones who stayed around for some technical work around to patch a program they were told was shutdown. They moved on to newer and easier things. (hey dude winmx got shutdown, limewire is better get it, etc etc.)

The people we are talking about is who quick, and everyone else is expecting to draw back to WinMx once we have a new client. The massive hoard of "sheep" as quick would say, who provide the massive amounts of files and share without all of the mx monitor, 0 of 0 hacks. They do not know about these things and they do not care. They just consume files and in return share them back because they don't have a clue.

Now why in the world would this massive group of consumers want to have to figure out what the fuck a hashcode is and figure out how that jumbled mess of numbers and letters is going to get them their pop music any faster? Well let me answer that. They arent!

To use WinMx you must be a bit inventive sometimes, but it can do everything if not more than any other p2p.

Again this goes with the reality I have posted above. The userbase we lost is not inventive and not techy. They are simply looking for the easiest way to get the music and movies they want and WinMX is not what fits what they are looking for.

I know this community is strong and held together and want to keep it together but blocking out the reality of the situation is not going to help. I can think of hundreds of analogies to use but I'm sure everyone knows of a situation where someone in high power or a strong community that are believers of a certain belief refuse to accept the reality that world has changed and their belief (winmx) is not the Iron gem that it once was. It has gained a lot of rust and is barely making it along.

[GhostShip]

I love the same old false claims being wheeled out with little in the way of technical references so once again I throw down the challenge, prove how using bit torrent makes a socket any faster, when you do this I will listen to what ever else it is your claiming, I have to admit I have never seen so many copycat posters in my life all bleating the same mantra "our bt client has 40 folks in the swarm but its faster because its bit torrent" , get a grip please  

A winmx user who is not going to get sued for downloading anything will not care about the other 40 folks getting the file but simply the file they are downloading and 40 srcs would indeed speed things up manyfold, by looking at this large quantity of multiple srcs without pretending some sort of magic is occurring in the clients socket section its pretty clear whether the file is sequential or non sequential its going to be downloaded a heap faster with more folks delivering it, and as your not uploading at the same time more bandwith can be used downloading thus enabling a faster speed with less bandwidth overheads.

Most winmx folks don't want non sequential downloads and for that reason we do indeed see a problem with folks having more of the lower half than the upper half but this is a mere nothing when placed against the BT method of all the file of none of the file, citing this as some kind of flaw is plain stupidity, as is not being able to check the file as you download, like it or not some things work better for the winmx network that was not designed for transferring movies but sharing , BT as a community is one made up of a few folks providing and the vast majority consuming copyrighted content and I have no problem with that but lets be honest about it and honest about the statistic that per user winmx kicks BTs ass into the ground when it comes to sharing original content, instead of 1 in a 5000 its more like 1 in 5 on winmx at maximum, many researchers have confirmed that its a very small number of folks supplying all BT content and this makes for a weakness in obtaining content over a long period of time, make all the claims you wish but the reality is most BT items are either poorly seeded after the initial buzz or no longer available, many times I have gotten a large percentage of a file only to be left high and dry, contrast this to winmx where the file has been shared more thoroughly and thus multiple copies exists instead of one or two copies at sites that are often down, under attack or censored by big business, sure I,m anti something here and its BS, facts speak for themselves.

Theres scope for improvement within the winmx client for sure but comparing BT technology with a more simpler technology knowing both run over the same hardware, software and internet and then making dubious claims only makes me wonder if folks are losing their unbiased faculties or they have lost their power of reasoning because no one is seeding any of it    

Btw can you point out any good BT community sites as I don't know of any and if you guys are all clued up it would be interesting to see what their concerns are regarding the forward march of technology, any takers ?

[Bieb]

It seems as though you skipped over the post above the one you just posted? As in that post I explained ONE example of the many private bittorrent sites specializing in each different types of media that have thousands of users in the community contributing their own content and all of it gets seeded.

It seems you're only taking into account torrent sites like the pirate bay which are simply horrible.


The torrent site in particular I used as an example is geared towards music:

Maximum Users: 150,000
Enabled Users: 139,061 [Details]
Users active today: 34,324 (24.68%)
Users active this week: 76,847 (55.26%)
Users active this month: 113,520 (81.63%)
Torrents: 1,007,590
Releases: 434,169
Artists: 366,750
"Perfect" FLACs: 213,827
Requests: 115,855 (66.96% filled)
Snatches: 48,198,199
Peers: 6,191,538
Seeders: 6,074,706
Leechers: 116,832
Seeder/Leecher Ratio: 51.99

Some of the different file types and releases for ONE album found on there I have include as an attachment.

I DARE you to say that is not a community driven torrent site that is full of files that are not found anywhere else.


And again, this is only ONE site geared specifically towards music. There are tons of others of the exact same caliber of community, files, and sharing in movies, tv shows, and any other types of files you can think of.

[GhostShip]

Seems more like a site geared towards devouring copyrighted content and delivering little itself just when was the last time you got any info files writtten by the communities users oh thats right never,lol

If you want to be simply a copyright pirate josh you stay on that site as its clear it suits your needs, I on the other hand share all sorts of content here and like stripes I take the time to ensure it dont belong to those who want to sue me, creating and sharing trumps organised freeloading any day.

[Bieb]

Every torrent file on there has a track listing, how it was ripped, the source, and every torrent has multiple people commenting on them. The site is completely community driven and looking on any users profile shows that almost every user has uploaded their own content to the site.

There is also a very large forum full of talk about music, ripping it, there are how to articles, general chat, everything you could possibly imagine.


Now seriously ghostship, tell me what you are not seeing here. There are multiple people here telling you exactly what is the truth and yet you sit here on your stool snapping back that it can't possibly be true that someone else other than yourself could possibly be right for once?

[GhostShip]

What I dont see is what I have asked for, technical explanations on why your favoured client has a faster socket than ours, I got time to wait while you google and do some learning.

Of course its easier to wimp out of self educating and thinking for yourself, at least Stripes does his homework in that respect in fact  I,m missing him already...

[Bieb]

I'm here to argue for that fact that there ARE community driven torrent sites that are full of rare file and that they are equal if not better to the community WinMX has, not the socket transfer speed thing going on here.

I just want you to understand that not all torrent sites are as evil as you think they are.

[GhostShip]

Honestly Josh I dont think they are evil, please dont take something Pri said and pretend I said it thats just plain bad form.

Each filesharing community has its own suporters and I,m a supporter here and not just for when we where top of the network charts many years ago, I like winmx and enjoy the chats and in my mind sharing stuff is not as brisk and business like as it all seems on BT, theres real folks sharing not because stuff is new but because they want to share the warmth and "turn" a few folks on to something they may not have heard of yet, so yeah I,m old school community but please dont think that means I take any claims on trust regarding just why something is better than something else.

Btw I wish you a happy new year  

[Bieb]

I can see where you are coming from. I do like the community that has stuck around and the chats are what make this network a special place in my internet heart.

However in regards to when you say "..in my mind sharing stuff is not as brisk and business like as it all seems on BT" you have to look at the fact that people's patience is not increasing but it's decreasing. People wants stuff now now now. The current generation of the world's population is used to instant everything. Texting, facebook, instant messaging, fast food, FedEX overnight delivery (which I used just this week because I hate waiting for stuff).

So it's kind of a contradiction when you speak of a new client and drawing new users in. You want new users, but you also want WinMX to be a place where everyone has a casual conversation between downloading each file?  Sure the group of people we have on here now is used to getting things off of WinMX in the slow casual manner that you speak of, but if you want everyone on here to have access to the new content that the network is lacking we would need to go against that thinking and make it so WinMX is another instant stop for what people want like bitorrent is.

People want things fast and now, not the opposite.


And happy christmas and new years to you too since we haven't spoken in a while

[wonderer]

missed in some quotes, you must be inventive sometimes to do the same with WinMx as with other clients. Lets take a 20 GB file.
never heard of winzip 7zip or any other file compression program? It works even with a multi segmented selfextractor.
Newsgroups work exactly the same and old users like me remember the time we had to yenc the messages into a file by hand.

TCP has less overhead as you can send larger packets and have a lower pps. UDP or UDP based filetransfer has the disadvantage of a non existing control if a packet is received or it should be build on top of the protocol with which the overhead advantage of udp is lost

A high pps rate may choke down routers and wil almost certainly happen with multipoint download

Happy new year to you all

[Pri]

@ Ghost: You say I've not posted any information but I quite clearly said already how Bittorrent is faster than WinMX. You just don't want to listen.

But once again. Multiple Bittorrent downloaders share parts of the file they are downloading with each-other 100% of the time while WinMX peers do not.

It's just that simple. I now put the burden on you to prove me wrong.

@ Wonderer: The uTP protocol used by Bittorrent includes its own checks as a replacement for the TCP integrity checks. It uses its own clocking system to determine if packets arrived. The benefit of the new protocol is it can detect damaged, partially damaged, high latency or high load networks and automatically adjust who your client trades bytes with.

So for example it favors inter-ISP trades over country wide trades and it prefers country only to international and so on. This reduces the costs and network load for the internet service providers and results in faster downloads for end users.

Older routers do not have a problem with the uTP protocol (which uses UDP) as it has been designed within the boundaries that all routers from about 1995 support. They didn't just make uTP to make it, it was specifically designed to solve problems and enhance performance.

@ Ghost again: Many torrent sites (Private ones) have a strong sense of community just like a WinMX Chat Room. The site Josh talks about for example I am a member there also and I can confirm everything he has just said. That site has its own IRC rooms, any member of the site is free to upload content. The site does not use Scene releases for most of it's content. I'd say Scene stuff is only about 5% of the entire website. All other albums were ripped by the users and added to the site. Any current user of the site can add content there isn't any type of "special upload" rank where only a small number of elite users get to upload content. Every file on the site has comments, every file on the site has user-submitted and modified information. The site uses it's own CMS software and Tracker that they built themselves and they have their own version of Wikipedia on the site which creates a common-editable page for every single torrent. Basically any user (even me) can edit any page on the site at any time to correct information. And this isn't the only site doing this as they open sourced their CMS and Tracker software long long ago and many Torrent sites now use it as a base I'm a member of 3 such sites as of this moment.

WinMX doesn't have a monopoly on the word Community sorry.

[GhostShip]

Josh not everyone does in fact have the attitude of "let me get something fast" my thinking when arriving to use winmx for the first time was lets do this safely and then I decided to go see what was happening in the weird and wonderfully named chat rooms, tbh I didn't go to the biggest first and took my time to slide in and out of a few till I found one where the folks where friendly and the conversation was both educated and positive, after a few days visiting and taking part in a few conversations I was typing very slowly at that time and  so had to try to "fire" bits of conversation into the room because of this and it was frustrating when the convo moved on before my words where ready, time passed and my typing became better and I found many many friends, our lives had intertwined and that was something positive I have always felt.

I was very lucky to find a great room like that and I haven't forgotten what winmx brought me, I was no longer alone in the harsh world both spiritually and physically as I "met" Me_Here and we decided that we didn't sound like bad folks and maybe should  meet up some time, that was years ago and I know of many folks who had this same experience so frankly no this place is not all about grabbing what I can and turning my back on others because I can, its a place of friendship for most folks with those who need someone to talk their life problems over with finding others who are in the same boat and simply want some advice from another human being who wont judge them based on their looks, disability, colour, race, sex  or social circumstance, I fight hard to keep this utopia here and  will continue to do so because as long as one of us carry the dream it lives on, that's whats winmx means to me Josh and that's why I wont be in a rush to try to turn it into a bit torrent community, I do think improvements can be made and I hope folks will follow my lead in trying those out where it can provide us with some extra layer of protection, winmx is not set in stone in my mind its a fluid community that grows and shrinks and needs topping up now and then and the folks I am looking at attracting are those who have time to spare to learn about fellow human beings and share and talk comfortably.
I know such folks exist and often haven't heard of us but when folks do they stay here as long as their online friends do as Josh pointed out, winmx is one big comfy sofa and no one wants to get up to change the channel but that don't mean we should get lazy and never do so, I work hard with all staff here to bring some kind of framework to keep the status quo and help out those who have also found a home here, improvements will come that's inevitable so its a bit premature of some to state what winmx does or does not do when its going to evolve with the help of its users, many of the users I know are professional types who look at whats needed in a cool calm way and many others simply tell me where things need to be in their opinion and I listen and take whats said on board, that's why I,m here, I enjoy making a difference, we can all make a difference but it has to be for the right reasons and with trust and respect for all , that's what winmx is about for me and I hope for many of you too, its not just a filesharing network but a place of solace and education, and most importantly friendship.

Happy new year to all WinMX users and to those who share my dream of improving our lot through hard work I cannot thank you enough.

[Update] @Pri I think your failure to show any technical data proves what I have said, I hope the rest of you can now see the flaw in making such claims based on a few news headlines.

[Pri]

Ever heard of IRC? - Sounds like you just want a chatroom Ghostship.

[Update] @Pri I think your failure to show any technical data proves what I have said, I hope the rest of you can now see the flaw in making such claims based on a few news headlines.

No mater what evidence I give you, you will just say it's not enough because you don't listen mate. I've explained it to you several times and you say it's not good enough. It's not my fault you won't listen, that's your ignorant fault.

Prove your side, prove to me how WinMX is faster. Cause I know you can't and I've already proved my side and everyone reading knows it.

[GhostShip]

Surely not everyone knows it because I dont, you believe it to be based on a set of circumstances that are often not the same on WinMx your basically comparing apples with cucumbers and asking me to agree with your analysis, I dont and we will never agree on this because I see good and bad in each approach, re-read what I just posted and see what I,m here for Pri, I dont need to go anywhere simply to please others, I,m happy here and with WinMX, as Paul McCartney says "let it be", little is gained in trying to convert those who are happy with their lot and are not doing what everyone else is doing simply because everyone else makes up a bigger group, let us be and crusade for BT elsewhere where folks require less from their community.

[Pri]

Surely not everyone knows it because I dont, you believe it to be based on a set of circumstances that are often not the same on WinMx your basically comparing apples with cucumbers and asking me to agree with your analysis

Yes a scenario where 2 or more users are downloading the same file would _never_ happen on WinMX of course not. 

little is gained in trying to convert those who are happy with their lot and are not doing what everyone else is doing simply because everyone else makes up a bigger group, let us be and crusade for BT elsewhere where folks require less from their community.

I'm not trying to 'convert' anybody. First of all everyone in this topic has used Bittorrent at-least once already. And secondly I'm just setting the record straight when people make false claims about WinMX or Bittorrent. We don't want to lie to people or we will lose them when they realize the truth, better to be upfront from the get go.

[GhostShip]

From my point of view then Pri your implying I,m a liar yet your the one making the claims that you cant back up ??

I think your starting to steer from simply informing folks to being a bit of a bully when folks dont agree with you, look at what I have said and what you have just said and then do some serious thinking as even the scenario you posted above is not correct, get yourself a paper and pencil to see why if you need to.

Comparing pineapples to tomatoes does not work.

[GhostShip]

Btw I,m off to work now so you have time to make a reply that I will read when I get home, take your time and make it something reasonable please I dont like the tone used in your last post as it does not allow us to co-exist peacefully.

[Pri]

From my point of view then Pri your implying I,m a liar yet your the one making the claims that you cant back up ??

I think your starting to steer from simply informing folks to being a bit of a bully when folks dont agree with you, look at what I have said and what you have just said and then do some serious thinking as even the scenario you posted above is not correct, get yourself a paper and pencil to see why if you need to.

Comparing pineapples to tomatoes does not work.

I suggest you look at your own posts and think about what you should post from now on as you don't act like a community leader. Being a good leader requires the ability to admit when you are wrong and to see facts when they are presented to you.

And I already backed my claims up, even you agree them to be true. Earlier in the thread you stated how Bittorrent downloaders always share data with each other and that is a security risk that WinMX lacks. Later on you go on to say I present no truth to that effect even when you already believe and state it yourself. Basically you put burden on me to prove something you already know to be true and that is seriously disingenuous and appalling behavior, I think everyone here can see what your doing.

Here is the quote:

its pretty reckless to point folks to a model based on automatic infringement if the file is copyrighted, have we all forgotten that its uploading and not downloading that is cited in all cases as infringement and thus downloaders are 100% safer on such a non symmetrical network ?

Notice the part where you mention Automatic Infringement - Referring to how Downloaders of files are automatically uploading that file to other peers [on Bittorrent]. I'm sure you'll play down this quote somehow or say that I'm taking it out of context etc - But this is basically what makes Bittorrent faster, as I've said already.

And this isn't the first time you've been caught being disingenuous there have been times on here where I've corrected misinformation and then you tell me on MSN that you only disagreed with me so that I will stop posting the truth because according to you what I said needed to be secret and hidden from the cartels, like they don't know it already. Specifically I am referring to the time I said how we could be taken to court about our lack of filtering Copyrighted content even though we do filter search results by means of Blocking user IP's - e.g. we block Anti-P2P from being able to share fake files by blocking their Server IPs.

You always say you have the legal high ground with WinMX, something you say Bittorrent doesn't have but that isn't true. When I discussed how we filter files on WinMX on this forum you posted how it was completely false and how you can't filter any files. In MSN you tell me you only said that as not to get legal ramifications from the Cartel who will then know we can filter but choose not to filter copyrighted content. Fact is we could have people searching for copyrighted files and blocking the IP's of users who share such content just in the same way we block the IP's of Anti-P2P companies who flood the network with fake files. You are fully aware this is what the Cartel forced Limewire to do and the defense that it is impossible to filter files on WinMX wouldn't stand up in a court of law because we already do it, you knowingly spread false information on the forum to discredit me. Even if it was for the 'greater good' as you say you can't claim to not be telling porky pies, and who gave you the authority to decide what we do and do not share about our network anyway? - You are the spokesperson of one community site and shouldn't be trying to quell lively discussion or injecting false information in to a situation to suit your own agenda. In-fact it upset me that you would rather lie to the whole community and make me out to be some kinda idiot instead of just deleting my posts to protect the information. Even though the Cartels already know this which is why they use the MXPie (unfiltered) network to get online in the first place!

Anyway I think there isn't much more to be said here by me. I've said my peace and I don't think I can be blamed for being a little sharp with this post because I am disgruntled at the outright sabotage by you towards me and others that disagree with you.

[GhostShip]

Pri , please post the date and time of your conversation where its claimed I  say we can filter files currently as I know we cant,, the fact that you are even making this claim says so much about your lack of real understanding about this network that it disappoints me, I can see you are unworthy of my time that would have been better spent explaining future plans and other things to those who care about what goes on here, you obviously don't and seem more than happy to put this whole site at risk with your reckless claims because you cant get your own way, if you wish to act in this manner don't be surprised when folks don't trust you anymore.

I chose the word "Automatic infringement" on purpose btw to contrast the lack of such a mechanism in WinMX, why should I want to step back from telling the truth ?
Also your lack of data to show any speed controls in a socket is noted, I dont agree I agreed with your claims and you can claim whatever you wish but folks can read this and other threads themselves to see exactly what I did or did not say, your interpretation is more than questionable.

[Bieb]

Pri , please post the date and time of your conversation where its claimed I  say we can filter files currently as I know we cant,, the fact that you are even making this claim says so much about your lack of real understanding about this network that it disappoints me, I can see you are unworthy of my time that would have been better spent explaining future plans and other things to those who care about what goes on here, you obviously don't and seem more than happy to put this whole site at risk with your reckless claims because you cant get your own way, if you wish to act in this manner don't be surprised when folks don't trust you anymore.

I chose the word "Automatic infringement" on purpose btw to contrast the lack of such a mechanism in WinMX, why should I want to step back from telling the truth ?
Also your lack of data to show any speed controls in a socket is noted, I dont agree I agreed with your claims and you can claim whatever you wish but folks can read this and other threads themselves to see exactly what I did or did not say, your interpretation is more than questionable.

You are such a selfish hypocrite ghostship. You and well as I know that we filter fake files based on the ip address of the user that is sharing them. There is nothing stopping us from collecting the ip addresses of people sharing copyrighted content and simply adding that into the blocklist. That is what pri was talking about and IT IS possible to do.

So stop pulling this crap out of your rear.


I cannot believe that you continue to spit out these lies to protect yourself. It makes you look like a fool.