clafirication on official winmxworld policy

[Bearded Blunder]

I know Ghost among many others support open source as a general principle, it is in my opinion a laudable ideal, i just don't think we have the right to risk winmx supporting that one, when face it, it's an issue the VAST majority of winmx users couldn't (pardon french) give a shit about, they just want it to connect & work, a closed source patch achives this, with no risk at all..

So a patch is similar internally to other winmx related apps already released, so what?  That isn't proof there are no exploits waiting to be discovered that havn't been yet.. in fact all it is is an invitation for the cartel to scrutinise THOSE as well..

We're at WAR here & the cartel has a big budget, giving them ANY information is a mistake.

[GhostShip]

Just for you Ice as you seem to have missed this in your haste to sling mud.

Folks, you are all free to use the voting feature on the site to change the direction we are going at anytime, I have seen concern but trust from most folks that we should tread carefully, I take this on board and as do the coders who are actualy spending their time trying to make any potential problems something we need not fear.

I at no stage have put myself in charge I am however one of the few here who has a good understanding of both the winmx technical aspects and the political aspects having spent a long while discussing this with many members of the community, I have nver made any secret of my desire to rid the entire network of flooders and this looked like a great step forward in that direction if your not all behind it then take a vote, the patch will be developed regardless of any vote but will not be deployed without a full vote from the core group.

I believe in democracy and continue to have utmost trust in those who have joined us on the site as supervisors and representatives of the community we all serve, having voices that throw new constructive or informative outlooks upon matters is something to be prized not stifled, that aside I hope those users who are using this patch issue as a chance to launch personal attacks are ashamed of themselves.

[Mizz]

.....or as has become obvious take the position of a bunch of ex pie maggots who suddenly have reformed seen the light, but now who hold positions of influence within winmxworld and in only a few short months have twisted winmxgroups policy to funnyly enough one that sure looks like pie policy..............where were these people over the last 2 yrs, i would susgest hanging out in pie rooms and certainly not doing anything that benefitted winmx.........think about it...........

How QUICK you are to judge yet again Ice....instead of taking the time to get to know any of the people who were new over the last few months, instead of talking to them and asking them what they ment by any posts made YOU jumped to conclusions and pointed nasty fingers....simply coze they "Might" have different views on things then you have....you label the as "Pie Maggots"

I wish u had taken the time to get to know all the new people instead of going on a rampage inorder to get youre point across...I have learned from several admins here that you were always there to help out....one of the frontrunners when help was needed...i actualy heard nothing but GOOD about you....and im stunned every time i hear it....coze with every post u manage to show a completely different person then the one i have heard so many good things about....why i wonder....instead of being so quick to judge some of us why not take time to get to know any of us...we might suprise you....simply becoze i or any other admin do not see eye to eye with you on certain things does not mean u have to sling mud, go on a rampage, or point accusating fingers as u so fondly do.....people will have different views and should be ALLOWED to talk about their views without the namecalling and fingerpointing... to simply call them PIE MAGGOTS is a copout at best Ice....and i know i should proberbly show you a bit more respect seing as u have done a HELL OF A LOT for WMW but respect is given where it is due and right now i dont see a hell of a lot of things coming out of youre mouth that demand my respect.

Alice

[icedragon]

We're at WAR here & the cartel has a big budget, giving them ANY information is a mistake.
what have i missed quicks merlin knows km knows but you seem to know more yea right,
and as for mud slinging what mud slinging if pointing out the facts is mud slinging then so be it.........but it doesnt stop the truth now does it.........you have no mandate from the community to do anything, let alone negotiate the release of the source code to a patch you dont own with a small ignorant bunch of fools who long to be able to charge users for the prividge of useing winmx and if they cant control winmx then they will want to destroy it..........the only pie team of any importance is the gem / sabre side as they have a cache, which is a lot more then nobbys side have, but then they told you to p[iss off didnt they, and yet you feel you have some god given right to shack up to a bunch of no hopers and susgest that releasing the source code to the public is a good thing.........says who ?...............so you have self appointed yourself to negoiate winmx,s soul with those that have nothing to offer except the futher decline to winmx,s demise, after all there spent the last couple of years doing a pretty good job of helping the cartel to spread fakes udp doss attack and launch denial of service attacks against this network and its user base, and you negioate with these people over winmx.........when was the vote taken to put you in charge.........
ignoreing what km has to say as to the state of the network is well troubling as you know km speaks the truth and if you dont know why dont you know..........why is it that the blocklist has gone belly up over the last couple of months, this is especially obvious when you do a search for something new like the simpsons movie or die hard four........most of the results are the new method of attack from the cartel, they now actually supply a file just note the one your expecting............why is it these real users ips dont appear on the blocklist so allowing the spread of fakes, not got the stomach to do the hard job, or is there a hidden agender as to why the blocklist is now only partially working...........
and as for you mizz got a guilty conscious have you, would seem so considering your response, as i certainly didnt name you or even elude that it was you i was talking about............funny how pie maggots are so sensitive to being labeled as a pie maggot, why is this guess there ashamed of there conduct over the last 2 yrs and want to pretend it all didnt happin..........
but anyways stateing facts is never mud slinging quicks, its simply stateing the facts........... if you can show a post were the community elected you leader and gave you a mandate to release the source code to a patch thats not yours and there fore give the cartel more information then they need then please show it...............but we both know there is no post on the forum is there...........you self appointed yourself to do this........................
but go ahead sell winmx down the toilet your going to anyway regardless of whats said here.............
self imposed dictators are like that...........and you had the check to talk about vladd..............

[Mizz]

and as for you mizz got a guilty conscious have you, would seem so considering your response, as i certainly didnt name you or even elude that it was you i was talking about............funny how pie maggots are so sensitive to being labeled as a pie maggot, why is this guess there ashamed of there conduct over the last 2 yrs and want to pretend it all didnt happin..........

Isnt it funny...yet again you jump to a conclusion founded on thin air..... i dont have a guilty conscious my dear, i was never part of the PIEteam to begin with...i was a user of the PIEpatch....but u never bothered asking did you ? u immediatly jumped at the oppurtunity to yet again call someone by youre favorite word "Piemaggot" so i guess in your eyes then everyone ever using the piepatch is a "Piemaggot"

Thats youre problem Ice....u assume to much and know to little or atleast refuse to learn anything about anyone....i wasnt reffering to myself in my earlier post.... i was reffering to every new admin in room in last few months...if they didnt follow youre points of view ? VOILA theres the "Piemaggot" reference again.... how easy is that huh....i cant win an argument or be ADULT enough to be able to actualy talk so you know what...ill just call names and point fingers and that way atleast ill always get the last say....is that how it works ice ?

I am not ashamed over my conduct over the last 2 years at all....for i havent had to resort to namecalling and fingerpointing simply to get my point across...untill 5 months ago i actualy didnt give a shit about who made what patch and why....as long as i was connected....like the BULK of people on winmx. But hey you go right ahead Ice....do youre thing...keep making more unfounded accusations if u want....It says more about you then anyone else can ever say.... i dont need to show u for what u are....u are doing a pretty good job yourself...like bigots always do..

you know u would have made a lot of people listen to you...you have good arguments and valid points...shame they are wrapped in somuch hate and anger....it prevents people from listening to you >!<

[GhostShip]

Ice seems to be labouring under the mistaken idea KM gave us source code to his patch, he did no such thing and the open src patch is 100% community built thus far, each person coding knows its for a open src winmx patch, they know full well what it is designed to do, so simple question Ice, why do I not have the right to open source a project that was made for open sourcing by winmx folks ?

Also Ice when has being "leader" of the community been important to helping WinMX get past the fighting and start regrowing ?

[Bearded Blunder]

shall i answer for ice, since he'll probably use emotive language & call some names?

you don't have the right to play russian roulette with winmx's existance..

as such you never had the right to start such a project as open source, merely the ability to put us all at risk by doing so.

if your love of open source projects kills winmx i and many thousands of others will never forgive you

plain enough?

[icedragon]

only patch in existance is km,s    hollow has a cheap knock off which km basically coded for him but is still based on km,s 1.9 dll..........haveing merlin edit a few lines to point to different caches is far from codeing your own patch open source or not........
still doesnt answer who appointed you to lead anything let alone what will be the total demise of winmx.this rubbish of open source has been talked about before and totally discarded except by a few pie idiots who seem to be under the dissullional thinking it will some how benefit winmx when all it will do is give the cartel far more information then they need to have ......
going open source just hands controll of winmx over to those that should be kept from it,and if you cant see that you have no business running around acting like winmx is yours and bartering away winmx with a bunch of loosers who have repeatidly stated there goal is the destruction of winmx, and since nobby wouldnt know what a coder looks like his mob are hardly going to be offering much in the way of code support now are they............only pie of any importance is the gem sabre version of it due to its there cache and total disregard for blocking that has winmx in the state it is today..........flooded in fakes, over run with udp doss and denial of service attacks all which degrade winmx as a network and fundamentally hold winmx back from going forward as who in all reality wants to have to deal with all the cartels b/s in order to get a few files..........just that gem sabre have told you to piss off they want nothing to do with yo,u, so given there attitude and that its there cache and disregard for blocking that is really the problem how does going open source and literally handing the cartel the key to the door help winmx???/......
it dont plain and simple...........
merlin has told you km tried all weekend to you banned him and others have expressed there deep concerns at what your doing is both misguided and wrong.........but that the trouble when people self appoint themselves to positions of self importance.........winmx suffers............
winmx isnt yours and you have no right to run around acting to the detriment of winmx or its community, we have enough trouble with pie doing that............and all this fuss so a handfull of pie users  the 20 that sit in the v channel might and given there history most likely wont block , if pie were ever going to block they would have by now..............this all smacks of a hidden agender  and again what is the difference between winmxworld at present and vladds pie ??/.......not much by the looks..........
as i said who appointed you leader...............
Also Ice when has being "leader" of the community been important to helping WinMX get past the fighting and start regrowing ?
what sort of idiotic statement is that.........your not the leader of winmx, oh sorry i forgot you appointed yourself to that position........the only ones causeing any trouble are funnyly enough the very same pie persons all 20 of them that you suddenly feel the need to snuggle up to..........so your prepared to comprimise winmx for 20 users............interesting............
as km said the network is under attack his warnings shouldnt be ignored......to do so is fool hardy.........the blocklist is now so comprimised by the new brand of fakes its almost worthless...........you would be better off makeing the hard choices and fixing that........then all this sillyness...............just somehow your far from commonsense now and seemingly set on a path that will see winmx pay the ultimate price................
oh btw mizz you gotta stop this whinning and whinging its really unbecomeing even for a pie maggot................opps i forgot winmxworld/pie maggot................
and merlin i thought i was being rather restrained in my postings..........guess im not.........but still your message is exactly right............pitty it will be totally ignored.................

[Lagerlout666]

Damn its took a long time for me to consider a post,

Since winmxgroup closed its doors(KM it was a great few years) you have all fallen to infighting, it really must stop. Ive just took a break from winmx, mostly personal feeling's and a small agender with a person that has since been rectifed; but i have returned to all of my friends, yes friends arguing. We have all been at each others sides for a long time, we have all had a good flame at one another from time to time but we have always sorted this out amicably. So lets do as we always do hay, chin up and sort this mess out

Now as for this patch being open source:

Pros

1. A open source patch will bring hopefully a end to the patch wars, Once peeps see us working together with a better patch and blocking they will move, the attitude of some of the hostfiles users is solely i wana know what that patch is doing before it hits my comp.

2. Coders mostly are lazy bastards, they like a challenge, i know when i see code an i think i can do it better i do. We all love a challenge, and to bring new people in to modifying a already exsistant source will bring new excitement, users and growth to a tired group of winmx coder's.It worked for other p2p programms like Ares their is no reason why it wont do the same for winmx.

3. Everything you need to make a blocking patch is already in the public domain, Honestly. If you know what you are looking for bendmx, robomx, mcs, as already pointed out contain all the code you need, but yet i see no tools created doing what the hireacy think might happen if the source is released to a patch, to be honest my only real concern would be the primary usage part but nothing has to be released that would be a weakness to the primary protocol.

Cons

1. The cartel see something that somebody missed, a patch would have to be released a.s.a.p but im sure extensive testing of the patch pre release by all groups would be done.

2. People learn how to hijack other programms of the source, Go have a look on the "sourcecode" website, I dont see anybody telling them to remove the vnc clones with full source which are basicly a trogan. The whole point of open source is for people to learn, im sure if linux torvalds said no im not releasing linux code it wouldnt be where it is today.

3. Someone steals it and trys to rip winmx off for themselves. Many have tried and its always landed as egg on thier face, take vladd as a example



Now im sure thier are a whole lot more others can add, an im sure a few will have some crap comment to say, but please dont dismiss it with having looked at the finished works, at the end of the day if you have to keep it closed source for a few weeks after development to test it then do so, if you think its dodgy dont release it to the public domain, but at least share it with other coders and otehr groups so we all stand as one. A united winmx looks far more atractive than one is disaray.

Good luck to you all and leave me some winmx for when i return

[GhostShip]

Merlin I dont see your point in making misleading statements, if you have a specific point make it , pandering to ignorance and showing your own by doing so is not likely to change anything for me.

I like yourself am free to do whatever I like and start any project I feel like, neither your or anyone else has a say in that aspect and if you dont like it take a hike, I have made it clear 3 times now that nothing will be deployed if its not the will of the core group of which your a member, being rude and forcing me to be rude in reply is not helpful to anyone.

Is that plain enough ?

As for KM telling me Ice where is he now ?

Lets be honest I can forgive KM as he knows he made a mistake in thinking this patch would work on the same design as his own, it will not and his fears are groundless.

My apologies for the harsh words folks, I seem to have lost the trust of many these days.

[Bearded Blunder]

My point is simple, giving the enemy (cartel) ANY information is always a risk, you never know what information might be useful to them.. what seeems insignioficant to you may not actually be so..

Look at history.. wars have been lost through giving out "harmless" information

As long as you blinkeredly insist that it won't do any harm because you & a select group of your friends can't forsee the specific mechanism, then yes you have lost my trust..

I don't trust reckless people

[GhostShip]

Its just a pity you havent studied as long as I have and can make rational claims with regard to the protocol, must everyone sit in a mud hut because you dont know how to bake bricks.

I have been in your position before in asking for things to remain hidden but I have since studied and took notice of those who also studied along side me such as KM and others who wanted to learn and understand, this is not something I have just done, its been an 18 month path to where I am now.

Whilst a simple no vote would have secured your aims you have made your fears into a campaign, its not that I dont believe your honesty in making the claims but its just they are not relevant in the case put forward for open src, you talk in generalisations but specifically can point to no part of the patch that is a supposed danger, what about upping the stakes and adding facts to your fears ?

I,m prepared to defend my claims and be proved wrong how about you do the same ?

[Bearded Blunder]

so now you're omnicient, you can foreee that because YOU can't find a hole nobody can

 i give up

i quit

take winmx to hell in your little handcart i don't care anymore

[GhostShip]

Your attempts to personalise this matter are purely wrong Merlin, no one who has seen the protocol can see a problem with hijacking the selected packets , its not just myself who understands this.

I understand your fears but I,m not prepared to stay silent while you continue to make general claims you cannot support, this is why I said your claims are misleading, I have merely asked you to be specific in your claims so we can get to the root of the matter, for better or worse.

[]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.]

Quote from ghostship

I have made it clear 3 times now that nothing will be deployed if its not the will of the core group of which your a member,

So who are this core group? are they made up of as you said yourself

PS: For the "do nothing" club members,

Or is it the very ppl you yourself are telling to take a hike if they don't like it??
maybe its the ones that by there own admission

i simple don't have the knowledge about the whole opensource thing to make an educated vote so  i voted "not sure"

  (a cop out for any admin who should make it there business to know)
perhaps its the self appointed ones and the appointed by the self appointed ones that are going to decide the future of winmx one thing for sure its not going to be the community as a whole you have already stated that above
democracy ???  i don't think so
you go on about this great community yet you hold everyone in disregard who dares to disagree with what you want including your fellow admins.
Browbeating/insulting/belittling ppl to see your side of things isn't a democracy its a damned dictatorship

[Mizz]

i simple don't have the knowledge about the whole opensource thing to make an educated vote so  i voted "not sure"

  (a cop out for any admin who should make it there business to know)

IF u had bothered to copy the whole thing u would have SEEN thats exactly what im doing...forgive me please for not being up to speed on things as of yet.  Thanks for the CHEEP fking shot there hell...i guess ill just go sit in my stupidcorner now and shut the fk up so the smart and more knowing people can have the word...

[lmao]

Lmao, Bugidiot, your a classic, you hate Pie, you slated KM beyond belief, you now turn on Ghostship, and to top it all off, you show some support for the 1 remaining group that is assisting to flood the network. Im sure by next week you will be an admin in Sabres room. Thanks for the entertainment folks, most of you should be ashamed, finally some folks work to get a decent OS patch together and all you do is moan, dont u want Winmx to improve? I can believe i have to come here to defend Ghost, but an OS project managed well, avoiding the elements of protocal that are of concern are exactly what Winmx needs. Kms departure paves the way for a much better more unified Winmx and you folks buy a little hearsay from KM, he is just pissed he is no longer king of the castle, he thought ppl would be begging him to return, he thought the WPN would collapse without him, he was wrong, get over it folks and move along, OS is the way forward, the minority like Bug can go hero worship Sabre, or wear their I Luv KM shirts whilst the rest continue to look forward..........Now onto business, Mehere, your gonna need some new common sense admins when u clear out this dross, you have my email

[GhostShip]

So who are this core group? are they made up of as you said yourself

The core group is made up of 6 members who are myself, Me_Here, Silicon Toad, Nylly, Merlin, Micromecca is a recent addition

KM resigned from the group.

I feel this is democratic as every one of these people has earned a say in our future and they where handpicked by the founding members to continue the work of helping and educating, no one can or will detract anything from their efforts and that includes me, whilst we may squabble its at least been productive in the end.

[]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.]

quote from Mizz today 01:46:56 am

im trying to educate myself about the whole opensource thing by reading and asking yet i am still not educated enough to say its a bad or a good thing.... uptill now all i can say is it has its good and its bad things...or atleast thats as far as i can see and understand...i do however feel concerned about the patch and ownership of said patch. As i understand it now it is still KM's patch and what is there to prevent him stopping us ussing it... or maybe i have understood it wrong ? I do think there should be a solution to that problem....if that solution should or shouldnt be opensource...right now i dont know.

sorry i  missed that part out but after this next statement i didnt want to have to point out how long you been trying to understand it to save some embarresment on your part

quote from Mizz today 08:31:16 am

I am not ashamed over my conduct over the last 2 years at all....for i havent had to resort to namecalling and fingerpointing simply to get my point across...untill 5 months ago i actualy didnt give a shit about who made what patch and why....as long as i was connected....like the BULK of people on winmx.

no name calling ehh??

quote from Mizz August 10, 2007, 06:52:53 am

Can you say GODCOMPLEX ?
Its simply sickning to see how yet again you seek youre attention in some childish manner.

quote from Mizz August 10, 2007, 06:52:53 am

I never wanted to say this but DAMN !!! do you have no life child ? are you so desperate for attention that this is the only way u can still get it ? i picture u as a child sitting behind a pc....stomping his tiny feet for yet again....no one sees me...

quote from Mizz August 10, 2007, 06:52:53 am

GROW UP .... youre display of tantrums is boring at BEST...it serves no purpose at all and it only shows you for what u really are...
A child with no life experiance what so ever...

doing great so far on the no name calling or finger pointing mizz

quote from Mizz August 10, 2007, 06:52:53 am

but im also a MOTHER and i can spot a spoiled little brat a MILE away

quote from Mizz August 10, 2007, 06:52:53 am

For all the other admins i would like to say this: Stop feeding this minors ego....u are adding fuel to a flame and it is to no purpose what so ever...he will not learn and he will not change...and yes so he was cofounder and yes he deserves proper respects and yes BLAHBLAHBLAH....if you all keep this up tho....things will never change and u will be more busy dealing with the childs outbursts then anything else....the choice is yours.
.

ohhhh dear a few more names chucked in there mizz tsk tsk

quote from Mizz July 23, 2007, 09:02:27 am

btw gnarly your rant is getting boring at best....taking up space on forum that could be used posting Intresting things....i am no tech at all....but u are dragging out the convo for no other reason then to see yourself posted on this topic....and apparantly to irritate and annoy others in the progress..
I will leave you with these words......perhaps they are something for you to think about.
When one acts as a child, they should not be suprised when treated accordingly.
..

quote from Mizz July 20, 2007, 08:17:01 pm

I suggest first u take some lessons in HOW TO use WINMX instead of telling people that they are wrong or that things simply wont work simply because you havent taken the time to get more information before making blatent acusations.

pot & kettle there mizz telling ppl about getting more information when you have not done so yourself in 5 months on this topic about sourcecode its not like it hasent been bought up several times b4

quote from Mizz Today at  08:05:39 pm

Thanks for the CHEEP fking shot there hell...i guess ill just go sit in my stupidcorner now and shut the fk up so the smart and more knowing people can have the word...

not such a cheap shot as you would have ppl believe .....after all mizz ppl in glass houses really shouldnt throw stones
ohh btw the language is so unbecoming of a admin kinda reminds me of a forum not a million miles from here...... vladd i believe

there was me thinking that the admins were here on merit & knowledge & ability to be able to help ppl...... that throws my theory on the selection prosess right out the window ...... i guess it must be done by drawing straws

i take it that corner has a comfy chair in it for you ....only i wouldnt like for you to take umbrage over that as well mizz

got there without having to resort to swearing once ......perhaps that might help out some on that learning curve as an admin as well as not pointing fingers or name calling or being so condasending & detrimental to other users

[GhostShip]

A word to the wise Hell, this thread is not for you to drag off topic with a rant against the admins, your last post does not even pretend to be anything to do with this topic, if you dont like the site or the admins then please stay away.

If you have something sensible to say then sticking to the topic is likely to keep everyone here happy, lets hope you dont want to argue about that with me also, site policy is as follows , "those attacking either the site or the site support staff in personal attacks are liable to be banned"

I,m "just about" ok with what you have said so far but please remember to take the correct moral stance in dealing with others, whatever the provocation.

Mizz, I understand how some folks can get under your skin and cause annoyance but you too must resist taking the bait, nothing is gained by allowing the thread to be dragged down by matters not pertaining to the topic, lets be nice to each other please.