Author Topic: clafirication on official winmxworld policy (Read 32401 times)

Bearded Blunder · « **Reply #80 on:** August 14, 2007, 12:45:46 am »

that list is shorter than ghost posted.. KM isn't the only one who resigned

icedragon · « **Reply #81 on:** August 14, 2007, 04:25:32 am »

this is a dangerous game you play with winmx quicks.........
i just hope your right, as winmx cant afford for you to be wrong...........
i just cant see pie ever being helpfull in this matter,the gem / sabre version of pie are the real side of pie that needs to be brought into line as since they have the biggest user base of pie patched users and the only pie cache its these ones that are provideing the back door for the cartel.........vladds side are more on a nuisense factor as far as the cartel access is conerned.......
and yet its the gem / sabre mob that have refused to entertain this idea.............i just dont see how going open source and most likely provide the cartel with something that could cause us even more trouble then they do at the momentm is somehow in winmxs best interests, not to mention the lose of control that comes from open source ...........
we as in winmxworld have discussed and rejected the open source idea before simply because the risk out weighs any benefit, and i dont see where that has changed...........if nobbys lot were really interested in blocking they would be useing the patch that is currently being supplied as km has nothing to do with it any more its not connected to him in any way, and as far as im concerned merlins creditabilty goes without question..........the fact that the source code isnt avalable should mean nothing.......and yet they dont his members post here with there conspiracy theories there lies and same tired old accusations.......and yet its these exact same people you are now trying to appease by supplying source code to a connection patch for winmx, are these few users so important your prepared to put winmx on the line for them..............
as ive said your going to go ahead with this regardless of whats said or done...........but as i said at the beginning...........
this is a dangerous game you play with winmx quicks.........
i just hope your right, as winmx cant afford for you to be wrong...........

icedragon · « **Reply #82 on:** August 14, 2007, 04:46:22 am »

in response to nobbys maggot mates..........
Lmao, Bugidiot, your a classic, you hate Pie,...........
your correct shit for brains.........i detest those that lie scam spread malware under the guise of a patch and blocking solution, which everyone knows is a complete failure........use character assasination enuendo and any other means they can think of to futher undermine winmx, who by there action or inaction directly support the cartel in there effots to spread fakes. engage in udp doss and denial of service attacks, they lie about it, and like you think they actually have something to contribute........what a joke you and your pathetic band are, and if your the future of winmxworld as a admin then it should close it doors immediately...........forgotten more then you will ever know.................

Stevi · « **Reply #83 on:** August 14, 2007, 04:49:22 am »

Quote from: icedragon on August 14, 2007, 04:25:32 am

if nobbys lot were really interested in blocking they would be useing the patch that is currently being supplied as km has nothing to do with it any more its not connected to him in any way,

You you would take a look at the spash screen that pops up, you will notice something that goes against what you just said. This patch is KM's, just edited to fit the new caches. He has the right to tell us to stop using it. I am not trying to be rude or anything. Just stating the obvious.

KM · « **Reply #84 on:** August 14, 2007, 05:21:11 am »

I stopped posting when the thread was censored to the moderator section (even though you later went "oops, that just proved he was right... quick move it back and say he wasn't right about us being winmxworld44" - which if anyone thinks is even slightly legitimate then i have some property to sell you really cheap...) however I just have to say:

Quote from: GhostShip on August 13, 2007, 08:41:03 pm

The core group is made up of 6 members who are [loyal to] myself, Me_Here [who will always agree with me or be homeless], Silicon Toad [who recetly showed great devotion to the cause in this thread], Nylly [who will never oppose me anyway], Merlin [who is/was the only level headed one there], Micromecca [who is power mad] is a recent addition

KM resigned from the group.

I feel this is democratic as every one of these people has earned a say in our future [by agreeing with me] and they where handpicked by the founding members [which would now consist of me and someone who is homeless if she disagrees with me] to continue the work of helping and educating [in my religious te err, i mean, my teachings], no one can or will detract anything from their efforts and that includes me, whilst we may squabble its at least been productive in the end [as every squabble tells me who my most loyal followers are, which can help for appointing more democracy later].

[a few words inserted for clarity inside square brackets]

Well that's different then

You have an issue, it isn't just decided by a simple dictatorship style "whatever ghostship says", it's much more democratic and is decided by "whatever a group of people hand picked by ghostship to represent his views says"

you really are a fucking idiot aren't you? (nitpick about wording but i really can't think of a better way to phrase that that gets the point across)

Previously when there were major issues I insisted that as a condition of my returning to winmxworld decisions not be made by those 2 (who will always agree with each other), and as a condition of my return merlin and nylly were given supervisor status so that any issues that arose that couldn't be discussed in public (and there are a lot of things which if publicly known would cause a lot of problems) could be sorted out without it simply being whatever they say goes... clearly that didn't work and things still kept going their way (mainly because in practice they still kept appointing admins themselves without the rest of us having anything to do with it) but at least i tried... Going with "whatever one person says, everyone has to agree with and not challenge" is what always happens, and winmxworld was *meant* to be a site created to be the opposite, to oppose other sites like that... however I guess something else is true, the people to run such a site that wouldn't become corrupted after time, are also the sorts of people who would end up leaving it when it did turn to shit (good guess on my thinking merlin was one of the few good ones who wouldn't end up being corrupted... although i wasn't expecting the resignation quite so quickly)

That's the only thing I thought worth commenting on after you basically finished the previous topic by the decision to censor it and refuse to discuss the issues, however I will add a few final words:

If my patches source code was released, at a very least someone would spot a bug that allows you to crash any primary running it (which I only missed because I wrote it), which would be the end... That's after all that development by someone note entirely unskilled (i can at least pretend to try to be modest right?

), and all that testing, yet you think something thrown together by people with far less expertise in the matter (you should see some of the claims from these people he calls experts... they generally range from thinking filtering is just a little feature and the patch is the hard part, to thinking the moon is made of cheese) wouldn't have any bugs at all? and you think you could gamble like that? I had no choice but to take a gamble releasing a patch, but I at least did everything I could to reduce the risk first - especially considering the previous time I made a much smaller gamble with the network backfired and caused a whole load of problems, yet you intend to just basically do the equivalent of playing russian roulette, and not bothering to check how many bullets are in it (it could be full) and then just pointing it and pulling the trigger and not even having an attempt to see if you can see anything down the barrel first...

That's without the other risks of course

Btw to those who have made comments about there being other open source programs and there's not a problem... well actually there is an open source program which could be a hell of a lot of a problem sitting right there in plain sight, but nobody has any reason to look in to it - if however it was something as major as a patch that was being sent around with a huge "hey inspect me check everything out" sign on top of it then it would be a different matter (why do you think I specifically used WCS code instead of existing peer cache code for the public cache that I knew would have dozens of people picking at for any problem? even though that code was not ever going to be any good on its own for a peer cache...)

I'd also like to point out that the technical ability here is evidently exactly the same as mxpie were 2 years ago - taking a few days to get outside help to edit text (of course mxpie haven't advanced since then either, but that's not the point I'm making - we all know mxpie are fucking useless and have nobody there that knows anything)... not to mention your "shit" (technical timing) response time to the only major "must act this second" incident proves you can not handle major problems no matter how simple, so going out there doing all you can to maximise the risk of problems is a really really good idea!

You have also completely ignored *every single issue* so far that has come up that didn't get a several page long thread full of normal users actively complaining about it - the fact that large numbers of users are suffering 1 minute or so waits to get connected just gets a "so? we don't get many complaints so it doesn't matter" type response, and as for a "minor" little issue that network performance is at its worst *ever* (seriously, even when frontcode left things alone and didn't bother maintaining things it ran better than it does now - because at least they used caches designed to run unmaintained)... you refuse to even discuss it because so what? there's nothing provable it's just a general reduction in search performance that causes you to get results that you could never prove if you would have got otherwise or not... so that you don't even class as important enough to avoid discussing you simply ignore

hmm... I wasn't planning to even write that much but i guess as I've written it now i might as well post it, but yeh anyway I guess I need to practice that stubbornness a bit more, perhaps next time I'll be able to completely resist posting in a thread that has acted as an example of the sites censorship without eventually giving in and posting anyway (I probably would have been able to avoid posting if i hadn't just got back from 2 days at work and was siting here bored with nothing to do waiting for the sugar to wear off so i can sleep - a moment of weakness)

Quote from: Omega on August 14, 2007, 04:49:22 am

He has the right to tell us to stop using it. I am not trying to be rude or anything. Just stating the obvious.

Something which still wouldn't get any movement out of them and I can pretty much guarantee that if(/when?) such a removal notice was sent it would not be removed until the ISP shut the site down to do it (or perhaps went in and removed it themselves, but they normally just shut off)... however you are correct in that I have not given permission for it at all, I have merely said I wouldn't enforce anything temporarily (no time frame specified)... hey all those music and film industry take-down notices people keep posting online do have a use, a template to use! lol

I also just noticed, the terms for my site (that cover everything on it) permit mirroring (unmodified) copies of my files, but don't actually permit running anything... erm... I clearly wasn't in a legal document sort of mood when I wrote that one to screw it up so badly, lol

Bearded Blunder · « **Reply #85 on:** August 14, 2007, 06:14:02 am »

I'd add some comments, if i thought there was anything that needed adding..

As to the timing of me quitting.. well i have other calls on my patience right now..

So my ability to suffer fools is more limited than it otherwise might be

ñòóKýçrÕôK · « **Reply #86 on:** August 14, 2007, 06:42:51 am »

I am ashamed of this thread completely. It started out as a FORMER member of WinMXWorld making some rediculous claims of censorship and wrongdoing. Of which these claims still have yet to be proven. so far we've managed to give KM exactly what he was looking for. And for that I'm ashamed also. KM youcan read as well as any. The thread was not censored as you attempted to claim, it was moved, by Toad, because she wasn't sure what to do with it. After extencive debate it was moved BACK. Per SEVERAL user's requests. Mine included. An opensource patch should've been discusses by EVERYONE with WMW and the possable risks or lack thereof explained thoroughly to each and everyone of us. NOT just a trusted few or a "core' group, just because they were knowledgable or agree to just anything. Which has proven to be far from true.I was under the impression we were all in this together, as a help group, as a network, and as a community. It is NOT up to 1 individual to make possable future decisions whether they can kill a network or not. Noone asked for an opensource patch. They asked for WinMX to work. And that's what they're getting already. Yes WinMX deserves to grow and move foward Quicks but to what extent are you willing to go to take it there? (some things are worth passing on friend)
As I say all this I'm not really just casting stones at Quicks or anyone in particular. Personally I think the possabilities of a risk are far too high to attempt an opensource patch myself, Even the slightest risk is too much. All this discussion over it already has hurt us as a group and also let others know who wouldn't have known otherwise that there is something to look for. Very wreckless thing to allow in this fashion. My point in this post and it is my last post on this thread because far as I'm concerned KM's claims have not been proven and won't be. But I do ask that if this thread procedes that as FRIENDS this subject be DISCUSSED by friends and with friends. I ask that the decision over an opensource patch be given to the WHOLE group to make. Not just a handfull. I say hi to Ice and damn glad to see your opinion on this. And I also say hi to Tiny, bout damn time friend. I say if you're building a new patch then let's relax, take our time, do it right, study the results of it and make sure it's right. Let's not give the enemy (cartel) an open door to walk through because even though they're going as far as they can without the worry of legal action I think they have very much proven they're willing to walk the thin line to get what they want. And I sa again as just a reminder. PLEASE REMEMBER WE'RE ALL FRIENDS HERE. Let's act like it.

Mizz · « **Reply #87 on:** August 14, 2007, 06:47:02 am »

Quote from: GhostShip on August 13, 2007, 11:22:51 pm

Mizz, I understand how some folks can get under your skin and cause annoyance but you too must resist taking the bait, nothing is gained by allowing the thread to be dragged down by matters not pertaining to the topic, lets be nice to each other please.

Im sorry if i dragged the topic of topic with any of my posts, it was certainly not ment that way. But like i said...im trying to get up to speed on everything pertaining to winmx and sourcecodes and programms and what have you not...the fact that it takes me 5 months or longer ? i cant help that...atleast i am willing to get myself educated....as i thought the opensource thing was something that all admins should know about....i cant learn any faster then this....there will always be people smarter then others....this can not be helped nor should it matter i think, as long as they are willing to learn but hey, thats just me. from now on i will stay out of any converstation technical as its clearly not the place for me.

sorry for being of topic....if i offended anyone i offer my apologies and hope you can forgive me.

Alice

TheMacDaddy · « **Reply #88 on:** August 14, 2007, 06:48:42 am »

http://acid-lounge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23

Seems to me this has been in the offering for awhile now if whats stated on this thread is correct.
I am sorry but i seriously have to question trusting a group of people who have openly attacked,questioned,slandered and made to look like fools (why mostly lies) there motives for wanting in on something like this?

I am really worried for the future of Winmx now and it saddens me to be in this state of mind.
I have still not seen anything that makes me fell that a open source fix is of benifit to Winmx users.
If your still going to have a group (mxpie.info group)who refuse to block then i see it would make no diff.....
And i fully believe KM if he says a open source fix s a risk......
For 2 years his patch has worked for me with no worries and attacks and not 1 single virus,spyware or any other thing pie claimed would happen.
I have no reason to not believe him now either.....
I remember all the crap MXPie threw at us in the start and it slowly died of over the past 2 years,it now seems they have been given a lease of new life.
I will wait to see how this pans out with interest.

GhostShip · « **Reply #89 on:** August 14, 2007, 09:13:37 am »

You have sunk to a new low KM in even daring to say I would hurt Me_here.

I note as Nooky has that you have decided not to try to lie your way out of your false claims instead choosing to ignore answering as you did when confronted in the chat room..

By making such false statements and attributing them to the patch that you know nothing about outside of this thread, your sinking to the level of depravity I expect from folks who come here purley to cause trouble, you dont even know those coding the patch for example neither does Merlin, but when have facts been important to a good scare story.

I will take some time today to reflect upon the sites future, I will not be blackmailed by KM or anyone else, if you have no trust in me then its likely I will not wish to devote any further time to the site, winmx has always been something I have done my best to take care of even when KM twice left and advised me to leave also, I paid no heed as I actually knew many where relying on us to come through for them, people who as you all agree use winmx and trust us, I hope I have not let any of you down in my efforts to look outside the box on general solutions to a problem of some years, no action has been taken to warrant the kind of character assasination I,m seeing in this thread, and the patch we are discussing is not even public for anyone to claim it has caused or will cause damage, something many have forgotten when they post .

Thank you all for taking the time to read this far, please expect an announcement later today on where the sites heading.

Bearded Blunder · « **Reply #90 on:** August 14, 2007, 09:24:13 am »

You wanted a technical argument Ghost...

Quote from: KM on August 14, 2007, 05:21:11 am

If my patches source code was released, at a very least someone would spot a bug that allows you to crash any primary running it

I don't think I need to add to that.. you can seemingly guarantee your pet coders are so perfect they won't accidentally include any such bombs..

Is it any wonder I lost faith in your judgement on the matter of opening the source?

GhostShip · « **Reply #91 on:** August 14, 2007, 09:48:07 am »

No bearded its when you lost your power of reading and gained the power of reading things into what was written.

I will simplify things for you:

KMs patch works in a way that would mean there is a potential hazzard for open sourcing it.

The proposed open src patch makes no such usage of the same functions as KM patch, I hope your able to understand this as it was explained to you by myself some days ago.

I,ll simplify it even more for you , Primary Tcp = Bad , Primary UDP = Acceptable and some parts already in public domain.

Now having explained this twice can I take it you can see why KM took fright, his ego believed the coders would merely copy his own patch architecture, something thats not the case.

Lagerlout666 · « **Reply #92 on:** August 14, 2007, 09:51:07 am »

Im lost here, ive seen no mention of him actualy releasing the source, ive only seen a mention of a intention to release the source of a new patch in making, but no actual attempt to do so, so why are you all flapping. At the end of the day im sure the finished code, if it just doesnt now become vapour ware will be distributed between the likes of KM, an Merlin and the others that know before it is even compiled to be released, all i can see when i read this now is assumptions of what is going to happen, not actually what is happening.

GhostShip · « **Reply #93 on:** August 14, 2007, 10:00:38 am »

I congratulate you Tiny in being one of the few to actually understand the position we are at, I made it very clear in my postings that I would not take matters further without consulting the core group in the first instance.

What more it there to say.

Bearded Blunder · « **Reply #94 on:** August 14, 2007, 11:26:52 am »

i'll keep it simple too then

seeing future & knowing what bugs you might build in & expose = impossible

making them easy to find by cartel = stupid

GhostShip · « **Reply #95 on:** August 14, 2007, 11:43:44 am »

Scaremongering still ?

If we take your advice I suspect we will withdraw all copies of older winmx versions as they do indeed contain bugs, remove all mxcontrol programs as many have minor issues , KM's patch would be withrdrawn as it would never have evolved due to minor teething bugs, where do you draw the line?

Can I suggest you get a grip on reality and see this for what it is, a patch that will run inside the winmx process, not a operating system built in visual basic

Generalisations whilst helpful to covey general principals mean nothing if not backed by specifics and its becoming quite clear you neither have the facts or the knowledge to pin-point your concerns, in short your acting illogically as you have done in resigning impetuously.

Bearded Blunder · « **Reply #96 on:** August 14, 2007, 11:53:41 am »

Ghost Dunce

any program more complex than a 10 line batch file can have UNFORSEEN and UNNOTICED errors in, which introduce a CRASH BUG which if spotted would be a disaster in winmx

in THOSE circumstances it makes NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER if the protocol used is secure

if it's TCP UDP or COW-SHIT-OVER-IP it makes no difference the result of exploiting it is the same

icedragon · « **Reply #97 on:** August 14, 2007, 12:11:12 pm »

wrong..........hes stateing the obvious...........
you cannot guarantee that your patch wont have gaping holes and exploits just waiting to be exposed, after all you posting states all those fine applications were upgraded due to bugs and errors, but that goes with the terrortry with computer software.............
just in this case winmx cant afford for you to be wrong, as its to late to release a update to fix a bug or exploit once the cartel have access to it which they will given your releaseing it to open source.............
as ive said this is a dangerous game your playing quicks, and winmx cant afford for you to be wrong............
unless of course your prepared to give a iron clad guarantee that your patch wont have bugs or exploits...................
and all this just so a handfull of pie maggots might use blocking instead of the malwared pos there currently useing and promoting............or do you have a gurantee that these self confessed liars,scammers and spreaders of malware will actually use this new patch...................

GhostShip · « **Reply #98 on:** August 14, 2007, 12:13:01 pm »

Please stick to matters you know about Bearded, there are many diagnostic code tools that can and will be used to make things as safe as possible, try learning about the subject before wading in on the attack with abuse.

I have the feeling that your abuse is designed like KMs post to take this thread off topic, it will not succeed, eiither come up with specifics or be seen as ignorant on the subject in hand, generalisations are like saying the sun will die out one day, true yes but unlikely for many millions of years.

Ice and Bearded, exactly what do you think the cartel will discover ?

How to send you a file ? I know for a fact they can already achieve this efficiently :roll:

Mick832 · « **Reply #99 on:** August 14, 2007, 12:39:00 pm »

Quote from: icedragon on August 14, 2007, 12:11:12 pm

and all this just so a handfull of pie maggots might use blocking instead of the malwared pos there currently useing and promoting............or do you have a gurantee that these self confessed liars,scammers and spreaders of malware will actually use this new patch...................

I thought this was a good point.