clafirication on official winmxworld policy

[mxpie.com]

Mxpie.com users, already use blocking, i can only presume Bug is refering to mxpie.info users, that just a few posts ago, he seemed to be in support of.

The original intention from vladd was to support the best "Open source" patch, which is why KMs wasnt supported, however, if an OS .dll with its additional functions was available, i would expect v44, mxpie.com etc to offer it as primary patch, after some testing and checking of source. This would seem a sensible way forward, with then the 3 major Winmx platforms all offering the same community patch, this can only be a good thing for winmx and its users, some clarity, followed by a period of zero drama Winmxing....

Perhaps a few more of you should look more closely at QS's proposal, rather than leaping to conclusions about a patch that isnt even written yet, and that none of you have even seen, let alone tested. Seems the sensible thing to do would be to back QS with the express reservation that none of the dangerous TCP code be in the patch, then see what the team deliver, b4 jumping on KMs disruption bandwagon. Im not even sure why KM is here, i thought he left, he didnt care about winmx users when he shut down, now suddenly as his patch is set to become out of date, he is back and more "caring" than ever?

Bug, you have attacked Pie, KM, Pie.info, and now QS & WmW, would seem your running low on options, i hear MXMichael has a great patch, perhaps you could buddy up with him, until something else comes along?

[silicon_toad2000]

7 pages so far. I would have thought that through this much discussion we might have come up with a solution by now.

I have a few questions to try and help educate myself on this issue.

1) why is it that we are so comfortable in the belief that them the enemy don't already have the source code to KM's patch? It would seem to me that with all the professionals they can hire with their pocket change, there would undoubtedly be a few with the skills to crack open the patch.

2) if the new patch contains the code which enables the filtering of the fake files, won't making it open source give away exactly how that works and give them the enemy insight to find an alternative way to flood the network to get around the filtering?

3) a lot of you have made it clear what you don't see as the way forward for the winmx community. what do you  feel is the most appropriate way forward from here to help winmx evolve?

[Bearded Blunder]

My apologies Ghost, after a sleep & period of studying your plans i discover the following:

THE TITANIC IS INDEED UNSINKABLE

so go right ahead & remove the lifeboats, after all the extra weight of closed code will self-evidently sink your unsinkable patch

[GhostShip]

I can answer at least one of your questions Silicon, The cartel have likely a perfect understanding of how winmx operates, there are two reasons we dont see more activity from them of a disruptive nature.

1) Legal aspects of data "destruction", this covers the loss of data on any machine and is a criminal offence in the US and a federal offence if directed against a computer used by law enforcement or other organs of the government.
In 2005 The flooding was much more drastic but through education and openess in letting flooders know we know their game, we now have an average of 8000 fakes per "protected" title, this then is a 1/3 drop in the amount we saw previously that was a possible grounds for a charge of causing a denial of service attack(DOS), they are on shaky ground still even with the reduction..

2) And this is the more important of the two, winmx has been writtten to exchange information/instructions between computers on such things as file searches, room listing etc, and other general packets for house keeping of the network , this set of instructions that all winmx clients collectively use is called a "protocol"  
information not being sent in the correct format or order are deemed non-conforming with the protocol and discarded by winmx clients, this then is why improvements to the client and protocol where undertaken during 2004/2005, the resulting 3.54beta 4 client is the most stable and secure winmx version at this time.

The simple reason they do not do more then is that they cannot, many have looked over the protocol and seen one or two problems and these are well known and agreed as such, but outside of a vey small amount of specific types most are not critical or a problem in any sense of word, in the initial post KM made a claim that relates to one of these specific types, unfortunately neither this type of packet or any of the similar types where ever going to be used in any open src patch, something many have chosen to ignore .

Question :

Ice and Bearded, exactly what do you think the cartel will discover ?

Answer :

My apologies Ghost, after a sleep & period of studying your plans i discover the following:

THE TITANIC IS INDEED UNSINKABLE

so go right ahead & remove the lifeboats, after all the extra weight of closed code will self-evidently sink your unsinkable patch

I rest my case.

  

[ñòóKýçrÕôK]

Merlin, you and Quicks both need to stop. This is where all you CAN DO is agree to disagree. You have both said this over and over again. Here is what I ask even though I said I would not post on it any longer.
1- Why canh't this be a "closed" src patch shared between all the groups?
2- There is only 1 recognized platform. That is WinMX.
3- There actually is ONLY 1 group ON WinMX, it's userbase. I no longer even ask a user that comes in for help what patch he's on unless I feel it's part of the problem.
4- Is the source code in this patch you're reffering to Quicks THIS much different then the vulnerability of KM's patch?
5- Make a patch that offers a user the possability to either block or not block(bad idea) at the time of install if it's at all possable.
6- During the immediate rush after KM pulled mxgroup I noticed more than your "core" group working their asses off to help users. You NEED to move passed this "core" group "thing"
7- Yes, the TITANIC sunk. But the Titanic could've been saved by responcible thinking.
8- Quicks I have always known you to be a responcible person when it comes to WinMX.
9- Has a point been overlooked here? Merlin I can be corrected if I'm wrong but what I'm reading says it's not a given that it will be open src. What I'm reading says it will not be KM's patch rewritten. Open src it? I still don't think so. It involves connection of a program that was shut down, by it's owner, several years ago, and now you wish to show them another way you can make it work and for them to get around that? Bad idea, vulnerability or not.
10 Write the patch. Make this a total group decision to go open src or not. WMW, pie.info, .pie.com all vote. Either seperately as 3 groups, or altogether as WinMX users. Majority rules.

[GhostShip]

I  have some answers Nooky, the patch will be similar to the earlier patch builds that didnt feature filtering and diverge from that point into a different method from the one KM appears to have used.

I have spoken to the other interested parties and they are adamant that the src must be open, perhaps you may wish to speak to them yourself.

Nooks the reason I try to reference the "group" to anything I,m doing is that I have no way of ensuring any users voting on this site are real or not, whos to say the votes would not be fabricated one way or the other ?

10 Write the patch. Make this a total group decision to go open src or not. WMW, pie.info, .pie.com all vote. Either seperately as 3 groups, or altogether as WinMX users. Majority rules.

That was the plan before certain folks decided they wanted to make personal insults.

[Bearded Blunder]

Absolutely Ghost.. you're totally right.. & all the watertight compartments PROVE the titanic DIDN'T sink..

all you're doing here is making yourself look a bigger & bigger fool..

closing the scource won't stop the compiled code running.. but NOOOOOOOOO you HAVE to hand it out, because it's not a patch unless you can do your pet "open source" thing

[GhostShip]

*yawn*

Question :

- Has a point been overlooked here? Merlin I can be corrected if I'm wrong but what I'm reading says it's not a given that it will be open src. What I'm reading says it will not be KM's patch rewritten.

Answer :

Absolutely Ghost.. you're totally right.. & all the watertight compartments PROVE the titanic DIDN'T sink..

all you're doing here is making yourself look a bigger & bigger fool..

closing the scource won't stop the compiled code running.. but NOOOOOOOOO you HAVE to hand it out, because it's not a patch unless you can do your pet "open source" thing

You have my sympathy Merlin, having made a big play of making your point on the users behalf you have sunk to this, unable to address a single question.

[Bearded Blunder]

lets look at this another way:
assume you take what i consider the prudent course.. new closed src patch
what do we lose?
the chance that some random passing coder takes a crack at something & it turns out that something turns out to be useful..
i.e. 2 birds in the bush

now assume it's open & you made a mistake
don't waste breath on "it's safe" history is FULL of disasters caused by idiots who took no precautions because "it's safe"
if you made a mistake, we lose winmx finis end of story

in any game of chance REGARDLESS OF THE ODDS (or percieved odds) you NEVER bet more than you can afford to lose

apparently you think we can all afford to lose winmx..

as long as you remain wearing the hat of the idiot who wants no precautions because "it's safe" i shall keep pointing it out, & short of you taking it off or banning me i WILL NOT GIVE OVER

the stakes are simply too high

[GhostShip]

I hate to point this out to you Bearded, but you just resigned from your position on the group where you could have veto,d this single-handedly, no pressure was placed on you to either agree or leave, your quick temper made the decision.

I have not changed my tune or lost my rag  in the face of overwhelming odds, instead I have continuously delivered facts in answer to questions, this then is the difference confidence makes, I know what the risks are and they are less than the danger of a hex up of KM's patch that he now admits gives away the entire key ring to the cartel if they didnt have their own set of keys already.

But hey when did facts rule your world, lets all sing along and have a band playing for the closure of winmx, some guy made a connection fix and we are all doomed  :shock:

Oh sorry that was the script for the titanic that actually didnt have watertight doors did it.

A bit more homework and less Isaac Asimov please.

[Bearded Blunder]

and still you insist you can't POSSIBLY be wrong.. when let's see what you say after you've killed winmx through your overconfidence..

no, i could have vetoed NOTHING..  had i NOT quit you would have voted.. in a chamber packed with your cronies.. & my minority dissent would have been ignored..

fact is i refuse to be part of any group that hasn't the simple common sense to dismiss such stupidity as you propose after the 2 seconds deliberation that is more than it takes to see the irresponsibility..

i got out before the stench got too bad, but at least i DID see this place is now no better than vladd44 at it's worst

[TheMacDaddy]

I think this has gone on far enough and got way out of hand...
So ghost please can i ask a few questions to try and get things cleaned up here a little ?

1 Has the new patch (thats wanted to be made open source but with no 100% yes it will be or 100% no it wont be) been made yet ?

2 If this patch is not yet finished can you tell me that when it is finished it will (for now) only be soak tested by users of the .dll fix and not handed to other factions until you are all sure it is safe to do so ?

3 Can you be sure (in hindsite) that if this fix passes soak testing that when it is made open source (if it is) that the other factions wont use it against winmx users or to harm winmx in its self ?

4 Would you please please consider that a hand picked group of 6 people (although all fine with me and i have no reason to be worried over or distrust) is by far not enough people to make the vote on behalf of all the thousands of users whom use this site and .dll fix ?

5.Could you please make clear to me (in private pm if you wish) how the cartel cant or wont use this open source patch against us when it is freely available to them to try and find flaws or holes in the fix that may have been missed (as we all know this can happen,it may not but it is a real risk) ?

6.How can you be sure that this fix will be taken well be all users (including pie users) and how do you personaly feel it will benifit Winmx as in do you feel it will increase the user base and if so how ?

Like i have stated befor i am not a tech on how the fix is built or how it works but i sure would like to know as posting here without the correct knowledge and basing my opinions on times gone by is unfair
For this i will say sorry but i do want to know the whys hows and wherefores...

[50s Boomer]

I know I'm just a lowbrowed user and not a mod. or anyone imporant but when I joined this forum I mistakenly thought this was a group effort to help people and not another one man show. Seems I'm wrong again so all of you have fun and I'll see you much later and not to bother anyone anymore this will be my last post.  Peace!

[GhostShip]

Your free to make the choice you made some posts ago Boomer, peace back.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mac I will spend as long as you wish discussing this matter on msn as its not likely anyone here would be able to understand what is real and what is fake given the amount or rogue ex admins running  amok.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Merlin, when faced with something you dont or refuse to understand you should resist the urge to go on a rampage, what have you gained from your display ?
Please dont sink as low as some people in your efforts to discredit me without any shred of proof to back your claims , no one will thank you for abusing me.


I think we can rest for the night on this note unless the rest of you have yet more time to waste ?

[ñòóKýçrÕôK]

I would also like answers to Mac's questions and I feel it might be good to see it here. Understand or not. Right or wrong. Good intentions over bad I think everyone must be interested by now as to the answers to those questions. Oh and I also feel like those pie members who won't support the patch if it's not open, although obviously their motives are questionable, I think they should explain here on the forum. I want any discussion on the matter to be public as so that noone may claim anything that isn't the truth. I think in respect to all of WinMX's users anything to do with this patch that may become public should be public issue. I am curious as to why it HAS to be open src when it really doesn't.

[icedragon]

your wasteing your time nooky............
this is going forward regardless of whats said or done..........
people with no mandate are decideing winmxs future, all based on getting a few pie users to perhaps use this fix.......
while all the time presenting the cartell with even more oportunity to damage winmx and perhaps even close it, guess that all depends on what bugs or exploits are in the patch, and you can bet there will be a few, always is...........
this is as stupid as that idiot posting "Mxpie.com users, already use blocking" ROFL you must be joking there isnt one cartel flooder on any list you use, and thats easily proved........and these are the braindead fools your prepared to risk winmx for quicks........to go open source and expose winmx......i notice pie have never released anything open source that actually complies with the GNU license........as even you will agree that that malware vladd came up with fails misserably to comply  with the GNU license............
so getting over the fact you have no mandate to negoiate winmx future with anyone let alone a group of people who over the last two years have done everything possible to destroy winmx.....you clearly intend to proceed with this, with no gurantee that pie will even use this patch...........after all self confessed liars, scammers and spreaders of malware are hardly trust worthy ......we already know the biggest block of pie users the ones that really cause all the trouble arent interested.........so right off the bat this solution sucks.............theres no gurantee that the rest of pie will ever use this.........and then the cartel will have access to info thats better off kept from them...........so even if your right and the cartel gains nothing the vladd / pie lot use the patch, that still leaves you with the gem / sabre lot still provideing access to the cartel.........not really fixing anything is it...............but we both know this isnt a perfect world .................
merlin is right there is no difference now between winmxworld and that disgrace vladd /pie lie team,  secret committees decideing winmxs fate..........6 or you decideing winmxs fate..........6 of you.....ffs.........
you would get more co-operation if you said you intended to get rid of the pie scum from winmx, then you are obviously getting with this lets risk winmx future by sucking up to a handfull of pie idiots and releasing the source code to a connection patch intention............this is wrong quicks and you seriously need to think about the consiquences if this all goes horribly wrong.....do you really want the demise of winmx on your hands........

[Iceliesagain]

this is as stupid as that idiot posting "Mxpie.com users, already use blocking" ROFL you must be joking there isnt one cartel flooder on any list you use, and thats easily proved........

Oh dear Icetard, this really is like taking candy from a baby, your claims are as usually totally false and below is the evidence, i look forward to the retraction of your LIE.

Copy of the latest blocklist used in the Pie Auto updater:

Auto-Guard Update:127.127.127.127
Macrovision-Cogent  :38.99.9.0-38.99.9.255
NSC-Cogent          :38.99.253.0-38.99.253.127
Macrovision-Cogent  :38.100.209.0-38.100.209.255
Macrovision-PSI     :38.113.208.0-38.113.211.255
Macrovision-PSI     :38.113.224.0-38.113.227.255
NSC-xeex            :63.219.21.66-63.219.21.86
MediaDefender       :64.93.88.94-64.93.88.113
MediaDefender       :64.93.89.223-64.93.89.243
Macrovision         :64.92.224.0-64.92.255.255
Macrovision         :64.92.226.0-64.92.226.255
MediaDefender       :66.180.205.7-66.180.205.51
NSC-xeex            :66.186.194.2-66.186.194.21
NSC-xeex            :66.186.194.42-66.186.194.61
NSC-xeex            :66.172.60.0-66.172.60.225
AntiWinMX           :67.18.178.4-67.18.178.5
Macrovision-Cogent  :69.22.136.0-69.22.136.255
AntiWinMX           :69.93.190.210-69.93.190.211
Macrovision-Cogent  :140.174.11.0-140.174.11.255
Macrovision-Globix  :192.156.198.0-192.156.198.255
Macrovision-Globix  :204.193.136.48-204.193.136.127
NSC-BTN             :206.161.141.0-206.161.141.255
Macrovision-Globix  :209.10.142.240-209.10.142.255
Macrovision-Globix  :209.10.143.64-209.10.143.95
Macrovision-Globix  :209.10.214.0-209.10.214.255
Macrovision-Globix  :209.11.121.0-209.11.121.255
Macrovision-Globix  :209.11.134.0-209.11.134.255
Macrovision-Globix  :209.11.141.64-209.11.141.191
Macrovision-Globix  :209.11.142.0-209.11.143.255
MediaDefender       :209.151.247.27-209.151.247.51
Macrovision-Globix  :209.195.58.0-209.195.58.255
Macrovision-Globix  :212.71.252.0-212.71.252.255
Macrovision-Globix  :213.219.50.0-213.219.50.255
Macrovision-Globix  :213.219.9.0-213.219.9.255
Macrovision-Globix  :213.52.222.0-213.52.222.255
Macrovision-Globix  :213.52.227.134-213.52.227.139
Macrovision-Globix  :213.52.227.145-213.52.227.154
Macrovision-IGS     :216.58.14.0-216.58.14.255
Macrovision-IGS     :216.58.19.0-216.58.19.255
Macrovision-IGS     :216.58.72.0-216.58.72.255
NSC-xeex            :216.151.155.77-216.151.155.101
Test                :127.0.1.0-127.0.1.255

Copy of the current WmW blocklist as used by the .dll

Macrovision-Cogent  :38.99.9.0-38.99.9.255
NSC-Cogent          :38.99.253.0-38.99.253.127
MediaDefender       :38.99.253.0-38.99.253.255
Macrovision-Cogent  :38.100.209.0-38.100.209.255
MediaDefender       :38.102.232.0-38.102.232.255
MediaDefender       :38.102.234.21-39.102.234.42
Macrovision-PSI     :38.113.208.0-38.113.211.255
Macrovision-PSI     :38.113.224.0-38.113.227.255
NSC-xeex            :63.219.21.66-63.219.21.86
MediaDefender       :64.93.88.94-64.93.88.113
MediaDefender       :64.93.89.223-64.93.89.243
Macrovision         :64.92.224.0-64.92.255.255
Macrovision         :64.92.226.0-64.92.226.255
MediaDefender       :66.180.205.7-66.180.205.51
NSC-xeex            :66.186.194.2-66.186.194.21
NSC-xeex            :66.186.194.42-66.186.194.61
NSC-xeex            :66.172.60.0-66.172.60.225
AntiWinMX           :67.18.178.4-67.18.178.5
Macrovision-Cogent  :69.22.136.0-69.22.136.255
AntiWinMX           :69.93.190.210-69.93.190.211
Macrovision-Cogent  :140.174.11.0-140.174.11.255
Macrovision-Globix  :192.156.198.0-192.156.198.255
Macrovision-Globix  :204.193.136.48-204.193.136.127
NSC-BTN             :206.161.141.0-206.161.141.255
Macrovision-Globix  :209.10.142.240-209.10.142.255
Macrovision-Globix  :209.10.143.64-209.10.143.95
Macrovision-Globix  :209.10.214.0-209.10.214.255
Macrovision-Globix  :209.11.121.0-209.11.121.255
Macrovision-Globix  :209.11.134.0-209.11.134.255
Macrovision-Globix  :209.11.141.64-209.11.141.191
Macrovision-Globix  :209.11.142.0-209.11.143.255
MediaDefender       :209.151.247.27-209.151.247.51
Macrovision-Globix  :209.195.58.0-209.195.58.255
Macrovision-Globix  :212.71.252.0-212.71.252.255
Macrovision-Globix  :213.219.50.0-213.219.50.255
Macrovision-Globix  :213.219.9.0-213.219.9.255
Macrovision-Globix  :213.52.222.0-213.52.222.255
Macrovision-Globix  :213.52.227.134-213.52.227.139
Macrovision-Globix  :213.52.227.145-213.52.227.154
Macrovision-IGS     :216.58.14.0-216.58.14.255
Macrovision-IGS     :216.58.19.0-216.58.19.255
Macrovision-IGS     :216.58.72.0-216.58.72.255
NSC-xeex            :216.151.155.77-216.151.155.101
Test                :127.0.1.0-127.0.1.255

So Icetard, do you notice an similaritys between the lists?

[icedragon]

lol good try nobass at dragging this post off topic, failed as usuall...........
if you think your list protects you then so be it ( snickers) pitty no one will agree with you............
there are plenty of posts on this forum regarding the inaccuracy of pies block list no need to go over it all again.............
if your so stupid nobass as to belive your mxlie blocks and protects thats your problem........but as ive said no one will agree with you except your fellow lie mob..............
quicks whole argument about going this direction is an attempt to get pie to ACTUALLY use a real blocking solution......so he for one obviously doesnt agree with you on your lists either..............you really are the village idiot aint you.........
and the point merlin myself and others are pointing out is the risk of futher damaging winmx by the cartel isnt worth you pie maggots getting on board with a real blocking solution............after all as km said itys onl;y 3 lines of code and you maggots are gone, which i susgest more of the community would support then this current proposed direction..........
jesus nobass did you actually turn up when god was giveing out brains...........guess not by your continueing stupid posts............

so once again nobass yourve crashed and burned thou thats standard practice for you pie maggots.........you would be getting used to that by now im sure...........
the reality is nobass.......... quicks nor anyone else  doesnt have the mandate or the authority to risk winmx which isnt theres in a bid to get a few pie maggots to use real blocking solution and in the process risk winmx you maggots aint worth it.........

[GhostShip]

Morning folks, after a good nights rest some things occured to me that I felt we should all be clear on whilst we discuss matters.

I want to see an end to the rudeness being shown by certain posters and a complete end to those posting allegations without facts, this is not designed to stop anyone having a fair say as most of you know I want to get this subject aired and discussed, this is proving hard with folks like Ice and Merlin calling me a liar without proof.

I have given this forum the asurance nothing would be done with the patch till I consult the group, it is not full of my "cronies" as Merlin claims but responsible users such as himself until he resigned, these sorts of petty lies must end or folks will find themselves without either a voice or a forum to post them on.

This site is a place for the whole community to have a say and make themselves heard, I am always listening and so are the rest of the team, its what we have chosen to do for the community, so please remember before you post something emotive that your not misleading, second guessing or just plain lying to make your point its unnecessary and likely to lead to a loss of respect for all involved.

[Iceiswrong]

lol good try nobass at dragging this post off topic, failed as usuall...........
if you think your list protects you then so be it ( snickers) pitty no one will agree with you............
there are plenty of posts on this forum regarding the inaccuracy of pies block list no need to go over it all again.............

My intention was not to drag the thread off topic, simply to correct your Lies, you can mutter on all you like in your usually ranting way, the fact remains, you are wrong and i have posted the evidence that shows this, it is evidence thats publically available, perhaps you should consider checking the facts b4 your make such a stupid and clearly incorrect claim.