Author Topic: How Did the Pie Info Team Get It So Wrong ? (Read 31436 times)

Joshua203 · « **Reply #160 on:** May 16, 2010, 01:02:13 am »

Quote from: Pri

I hope that clears it up

uuhm well this explains the last merge of the two old teams lol not this situation ..or i 'm just missing the point

, never mind Pri i ll wait and see what happens, dont get me wrong i m still happy these pie team members descided to jump on our wagon too but some things just are still unclear

thanks for your reply and try though Pri

greetings,
...Joshua203

Pri · « **Reply #161 on:** May 16, 2010, 01:11:05 am »

The pie team are all on board except for Sabre who doesn't want to be involved with the new developments. He instead would like to stay independent with his current hosts file 'patch' and his current peer cache.

Basically if Sabre doesn't back down and accept some help from his own team then we are likely to push a new patch which protects our users from anyone still using his patch. As I've said before it only takes 1 unprotected primary to allow the data mining to continue. But if Sabre doesn't do anything there will be thousands of users still unaware a new patch is even available (as he is operating the menubar apparently).

Whatever happens though don't worry there are always more options and avenues and we already have ideas that we are exploring. No mater what happens the current pie team will be involved and will get to host their own caches and patch (the eagle designed ones) whatever Sabre does or doesn't do has no baring on the progress that has been made with his other team members. Sabre has been involved in the discussions but has made his position clear which is that he does not trust us and is not interested in being a part of anything we have to offer. He isn't interested in data, he isn't interested in facts. In my opinion he has more issues with the people offering him help than he does with the actual help itself.

Joshua203 · « **Reply #162 on:** May 16, 2010, 01:28:05 am »

this is exactly why i kept asking and saying no it is n t clear ...LOL... the plan is not yet concrete i understand now .. that s clear

that Sabre was hosting the mainbar is no suprise to me and that if he 's gonna keep connecting hostfiles(pie) users we still face the problem was also why i kept asking ..sorry i m so damned hard to please LMAO

i must admit i m wondering about what the concequences will be for my way of connecting but i ll wait and see, i'ld hate to loose my "own" toys and private projects that help me kill/create sleepless nights

, but i m almost sure i ll get around any problems again ..if any

Quote from: Pri on May 16, 2010, 01:11:05 am

He isn't interested in data, he isn't interested in facts. In my opinion he has more issues with the people offering him help than he does with the actual help itself.

This has always been the case hasn t it? no suprise there, we can only hope that he eventhough he allready must know it 's lonely at the top ..he will soon see it will be more lonely without any team members and followers (or just a few) and see the light too?¿? who knowzzzz

wonderer · « **Reply #163 on:** May 16, 2010, 01:30:49 am »

Again, I maybe wrong, as far as my knowledge goes is Sabre the one and only cacheholder on the mxpie.info side.
I would not be surprised if he would misuse the menue bar KM-style like he did before as some of us might remember.

This may also be the moment to ask ourselves if Sabre is the only hosts based cacheholder, so even if he would decide to take his cache down, would it be the last cache in this style ?

Joshua203 · « **Reply #164 on:** May 16, 2010, 01:33:23 am »

Quote from: wonderer on May 16, 2010, 01:30:49 am

This may also be the moment to ask ourselves if Sabre is the only hosts based cacheholder, so even if he would decide to take his cache down, would it be the last cache in this style ?

well i m not one of those ..let that please be clear

Pri · « **Reply #165 on:** May 16, 2010, 01:36:51 am »

Quote from: wonderer on May 16, 2010, 01:30:49 am

Again, I maybe wrong, as far as my knowledge goes is Sabre the one and only cacheholder on the mxpie.info side.
I would not be surprised if he would misuse the menue bar KM-style like he did before as some of us might remember.

This may also be the moment to ask ourselves if Sabre is the only hosts based cacheholder, so even if he would decide to take his cache down, would it be the last cache in this style ?

From the discussions we know at-least one of the other Pie admins on there forum is/was hosting a cache and the IP to his/her server is still in the hosts patch that all the pie users have installed. So Sabre isn't the only one. I don't want to mention which user it is in public in-case he/she doesn't want it known but all the people privy to the discussions are aware of it.

wonderer · « **Reply #166 on:** May 16, 2010, 02:01:57 am »

Without going in details in public I see a difference in hosting a cache and operating a cache, but that aside.

My concern is about caches " in the wild "

Pri · « **Reply #167 on:** May 16, 2010, 02:13:13 am »

It is always possible for the Cartel to setup their own cache but they need to get WinMX users (Primary ones specifically) to use their cache for it to be useful. And if we can get 99% of users on the community patch (which includes blocking) it will close the gaping hole the network has wide open right now.

At the moment if you want to collect data about the network unimpeded you use the mxpie.info caches our hope is to stop them using that by securing it and then if they move on to something else we can tackle that hurdle as we come to it. At the moment the plan being discussed involves distributing a new patch to our users which makes it impossible for primary users not using our patch from performing file searches on users of our patch. As this is the way they are data mining.

Here's how it works, they connect to a Pie Primary (no protection in use), they use that Primary to submit a search to the network (Like of a song artist) that search query goes over the entire network from that Pie Primary including the Pie operated side and the Community Patch side. The results are sent to the Cartel abusing that Pie Primary.

Once we release a new patch we can stop this so that when a Pie Primary performs that search query and it hits a Primary user of the community patch it is ignored and they do not receive any search results from our side of the network. Basically segregating it between those who are protected and those who are not.

Savage Blades · « **Reply #168 on:** May 16, 2010, 02:52:24 am »

There are many variables, while Sabre's initial reaction was as expected,
I remain optimistic, as does pie.info team, that some kind of comprise, can still be reached..
Only once this single variable, has been determined, can further progress be made.

GhostShip · « **Reply #169 on:** May 16, 2010, 07:25:00 am »

Let me be clear here on "compromises", there will be none that expose the users to data minining and other attacks, I personally have no respect for anyone who puts users at risk by their vindictive attitude, the time for childishness is over, either full action is taken to protect folks or much technical effort will go on making sure such ppls stupidity and ignorance pose a threat no longer.

We all are ready to forgive and forget but only when the those who are causing the problem recognise why the rest of us are upset with them and act accordingly, failure to protect the WPN and users is never going to be acceptable behaviour.

Peer caches have to gather data from the network to be able to operate (IP's) thus they are detectable and currently there are no "secret" Caches operating that are unknown to us, we can look to shadows all day long but the fact is we have the facilities to detect such caches and know between ourselves, the former pie groups and Merlin no further caches exst in the wild, if any appear they will be detected and mention made here of their existence.

Bluey_412 · « **Reply #170 on:** May 16, 2010, 11:40:40 am »

which covers a thought i had, if the Cartel was cunning enuf to try to set up their own cache, or primaries...

if we can block such an 'in the wild' cache, can the same not be done for 'known but undesirable' caches?

GhostShip · « **Reply #171 on:** May 17, 2010, 02:54:19 pm »

We already take action to ensure community patched users are not indexed by rogue peer cache operators.

Our main drive now should be to minimise the amount of folks on non community solutions and thus minimise the potential exposure to such problems, we can all take a hand in this by ensuring anyone we come into contact with is protected.

White Stripes · « **Reply #172 on:** May 19, 2010, 02:00:34 am »

moar infos! the silence is deafining...

silicon_toad2000 · « **Reply #173 on:** May 19, 2010, 02:49:53 am »

Nothing concrete at the moment, we're all feeling our way forward.

Check the pie.info forum

Bluey_412 · « **Reply #174 on:** May 19, 2010, 07:48:58 am »

Same, all just waitin at present

a few hiccups, hardware issues...

White Stripes · « **Reply #175 on:** June 01, 2010, 01:17:50 pm »

nosy skunk is nosy *innocent grin*.... whats going on nao?

silicon_toad2000 · « **Reply #176 on:** June 01, 2010, 10:00:09 pm »

almost there I think.

The pie team have a few caches running and their servers sorted. Believe their websites almost at a point where it can be launched, as far as websites are never really finished.

The patch team are developing and testing the patch for the pie team

White Stripes · « **Reply #177 on:** June 29, 2010, 07:08:31 pm »

https://forum.mxpie.info/mxpiehelptopic4503-45.html -- the equivalent of this discussion thread on their forum no longer exsists... the pie site is still serving up patch 3.6... and nothing more seems to have come of this...

...shall i take it that this was just a flash in the pan... all talk with nothing done.. again...?

this thread was started may 3rd... the last post of 'almost there' was the 1st of june... its june 29....

anyone have any stats on how much datamining has been done?

Pri · « **Reply #178 on:** June 29, 2010, 07:27:34 pm »

I think the main issue is that one person held all the cards and that person was Sabre and he didn't wan't to be involved with the community patch. From what I saw some or perhaps all of his staff were for the idea but his the one at the top and physically has access to all the important bits.

Giving his staff the software to host would basically just bring more people in to doing the community patch servers and make another source to get the patch but they would not be able to distribute it from mxpie.info or change the menubar that appears on pie users winmx and sabre would always continue to operate pie as-is regardless.

Bieb · « **Reply #179 on:** June 29, 2010, 08:17:09 pm »

Just another failed attempt... people want things done but don't let anyone else help. So it fails again.