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WinMX World :: Forum  |  WinMX World Community  |  Winmxworld.com Strategic Directions  |  My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
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Author Topic: My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system  (Read 32178 times)

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Offline Lagerlout666

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Re: My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
« Reply #80 on: September 18, 2011, 11:39:49 pm »
I don't understand why if you can code you haven't asked to join the secondry client work that last I looked was pretty much done on the grounds of a basic client, and they where making it pretty and stable and working on primary before the attacks started and the effort shifted to patch development. 

Why not pm ghostship, tell him what you can and can't do..

Btw I have messed with gnu net inthe past. I found it only useful if you left the service running all the time, if you turned it off and started it again it seemed to take ages to catch up. That's ok if you have loads of bw and is happy to have something running on your pc 24/7. But I like to game, and watch YouTube and sky player and it makes that stuff laggy ( just installed again to test). And I have 12mb down and 1.5 up. This was after disabling a fair bit of stuff too. Maybe with time it stabalises,but I ain't joining no game with my ping above 100 lol
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Offline White Stripes

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Re: My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
« Reply #81 on: September 19, 2011, 01:26:03 am »
@hanz; perfect dark requires an upspeed of 100MB/s ... there would be no way to use it on dial... its a successor to winmx/winny only in 'purpose' not in 'incarnation' .... gnunet is also useless to dial users... since each acts as a router... and if broadband users have trouble with it (as lagerlout points out) then its not exactly an ideal network either....

need a two teir (winmx, ares, filetopia, gnutella, and similar) or single teir with very low overhead (torrent) for everyone to 'play'....

dont forget theres also the users at a 'halfway point' with internet connects.... ISDN and sattelite being great examples.... a winmx primary would be hell on a satellite connect due to the 2second ping times typical for sat connects... at least in the US.. dunno how well they work in oz... but as a secondary would have -great- download speeds...

Offline achilles

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Re: My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
« Reply #82 on: September 19, 2011, 01:40:34 am »
Maybe the new client that's already being developed could be worth Hans time as long as they are not so worried as to keeping it completely compatible with the old client. That would just hold back progress. A lot of users here are so set on keeping it compatible so that there chat servers, and other favorite WinMx toys still work with the new client. Those days could be over with, and one must look on to the future.  I know a lot of coders put in a lot of hard work on those apps, but to fix the problem those apps may have to be lost by the way side.
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Offline White Stripes

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Re: My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
« Reply #83 on: September 19, 2011, 01:56:21 am »
methinks the plan is to 'migrate' rather than a sudden jump so the first incarnation of the clone will be just that... a clone... later versions less so.. allowing for the phasing out of the original mx and its toys while getting a new client and new set of toys.... ....no reason the chat servers that are still maintained couldnt upgrade as well...

lets just hope leeches and the queue problem go the way of the dodo as well ;)

Offline Hans-Linux

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Re: My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
« Reply #84 on: September 19, 2011, 02:31:55 am »
Hans, is there any way to modify GNUNET so that users  can connect as a secondary if they don't have much bandwidth to share due to still being back in the stone age with their dial-up service?  Also can C++ coders work with you on this project? I'm not a coder, but since C++ is based off C I thought maybe some parts of the client could be coded in C++. Is this possible? You already mentioned Java could be used to create a plugin for the client.

I do not know if it will be possible to be part of GNUNET without contributing bandwidth for routing packets. It is definitely possible if a "Friend" runs a GnuNet node on a Linux box and the "Friend" allows the user to connect through his Linux box to the GnuNet. The "Friend" would have to operate his box 24/7 on a high speed connection, set up a user account for the user. The user would have to connect through a VPN tunnel to the "Friend" Linux box and to the GnuNet. I believe Windows 7 has this facility.  I do not know if it can be done if the "Friend" has a Windows box.  A p2p on top of FreeNet may be better for Dial-up users.  

If someone codes in C++ he can easily code in "C" (ISO C98 or ANSI Standard) .  

Java can be used to create WinMx style Client in form of a Azureus (Vuze) Plugin to plug into an Azureus Bittorrent client running with a i2p Plugin.  

Hans


 
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Offline Hans-Linux

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Re: My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
« Reply #85 on: September 19, 2011, 02:38:51 am »
I don't understand why if you can code you haven't asked to join the secondry client work that last I looked was pretty much done on the grounds of a basic client, and they where making it pretty and stable and working on primary before the attacks started and the effort shifted to patch development. 

Why not pm ghostship, tell him what you can and can't do..

Btw I have messed with gnu net inthe past. I found it only useful if you left the service running all the time, if you turned it off and started it again it seemed to take ages to catch up. That's ok if you have loads of bw and is happy to have something running on your pc 24/7. But I like to game, and watch YouTube and sky player and it makes that stuff laggy ( just installed again to test). And I have 12mb down and 1.5 up. This was after disabling a fair bit of stuff too. Maybe with time it stabalises,but I ain't joining no game with my ping above 100 lol

I did not know that a secondary WinMx client only is in procress. I will be happy to help if I can. The project leader can contact me through my mailbox.

Hans
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 Main Op. System: Gentoo, Xfce Desktop; 
Wine 3.0.3; WinMx; Bit-Torrent;
Up-Speed 20 Mb/s Down-Speed 50 Mb/s;
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Offline Hans-Linux

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Re: My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
« Reply #86 on: September 19, 2011, 06:02:49 am »
methinks the plan is to 'migrate' rather than a sudden jump so the first incarnation of the clone will be just that... a clone... later versions less so.. allowing for the phasing out of the original mx and its toys while getting a new client and new set of toys.... ....no reason the chat servers that are still maintained couldnt upgrade as well...

lets just hope leeches and the queue problem go the way of the dodo as well ;)

What "Toys" should be incorporated into a new WinMX client?
Hans
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Up-Speed 20 Mb/s Down-Speed 50 Mb/s;
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Offline White Stripes

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Re: My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
« Reply #87 on: September 19, 2011, 07:33:05 am »
Quote

What "Toys" should be incorporated into a new WinMX client?
Hans

most would want mxmoni but im not exactly a big fan and hope that app dies a horrid death.... a winamp song announcer for the DJs... leechammer would be nice but the mxmoni users would disagree lol...

basically the queue managers (for the leechers?) and the 'chat toys' for the rooms...

shouldnt really be a 'should' but when the new client is open sourced all that crap will get hacked into it anyway...

Offline achilles

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Re: My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
« Reply #88 on: September 19, 2011, 01:16:58 pm »
The 2GB file cap definitely needs to be eliminated, and better hashing would be nice. I was thinking of MD5 or maybe whatever Ares uses.  I'm not sure how much slower it would be to populate ones library using the MD5 algorithm versus the current method employed. It would definitely require more CPU resources in comparison to the current hashing method.  Are there any P2P clients that use the MD5 algorithm? I know Emule uses MD4.  The client obviously needs to use better packet authentication. Encryption needs to be added to the transfer protocols to prevent future attacks. All of this has already been discussed many times. Here is a thread I started last year on this topic https://forum.winmxworld.com/index.php?topic=10161.0.html
I'm a Hardware, and Cyber Security Guy.

Offline RebelMX

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Re: My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
« Reply #89 on: September 19, 2011, 07:08:18 pm »
To be honest the reluctance to migrate away from the current protocol is because to do so is to create an entirely new network i.e. NOT winmx!

All this talk of changing how the network works, and features and encryption is pointless and actually worthless.  Without a basic client that IS compatible, no further development is even worth discussing let alone figuring out the details! 

The priorities are:
1) a new patch to protect the network from the current batch of attacks.
2) a clone secondary client
3) a clone primary client (2 and 3 are interchangable)
4) further development of the open source client to enable all protocol packets to be validated and extra protection added
5) new features - increase the 2 gb limit etc

Without the early stuff the later is redundant and a waste of resources and energy!

Offline achilles

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Re: My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
« Reply #90 on: September 19, 2011, 08:25:15 pm »
Ritchie, an entirely new network isnt necessarily a bad thing if we have the same users willing to share their files, and interact with one another with an improved client / network.  If it's possible to create a patch though to stop the attacks then maybe Hans can work with you on it.  I think Hans needs to be given full access to what is available for the patch, and new client so he can give his professional opinion on the issue.
I'm a Hardware, and Cyber Security Guy.

Offline White Stripes

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Re: My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
« Reply #91 on: September 19, 2011, 09:39:49 pm »
Quote
The 2GB file cap definitely needs to be eliminated

..not before the queue problem is fixed...

Quote
I was thinking of MD5 or maybe whatever Ares uses.

ares uses md5.... as for the time it takes you do know it can be done in the background right?
and once done -- its done for that set of files... only need to do another md5 when a new one is added...

filetopia uses crc32 but thats not too reliable... tho is better than what mx currently uses (no offence to anyone)...

opennap uses md5 on the first ~300kb of the file to get a 'fingerprint' moreso than a hash... this as you can imagine... can lead to plenty of errors when resuming...

..if you want file bigger than 2gig use torrent... when the queue is made a whole lot more 'fair' in mx then the 2gig limit be dropped... you willing to sit in queue behind an ISDN user downloading a 50gig BD iso?.....


--edit; afterthought--

atm id just like to see what exsists now work.... and if it cant be made to then a coordinated (so everyone ends up in the same place) exodus to a fileshare app of majority vote choice should occur...

Offline achilles

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Re: My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
« Reply #92 on: September 19, 2011, 09:56:57 pm »
Yes, the queue problem is a big problem since we have so many leachers on the network.
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Offline Hans-Linux

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Re: My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
« Reply #93 on: September 20, 2011, 01:36:41 am »
To be honest the reluctance to migrate away from the current protocol is because to do so is to create an entirely new network i.e. NOT winmx!

All this talk of changing how the network works, and features and encryption is pointless and actually worthless.  Without a basic client that IS compatible, no further development is even worth discussing let alone figuring out the details!  

The priorities are:
1) a new patch to protect the network from the current batch of attacks.
2) a clone secondary client
3) a clone primary client (2 and 3 are interchangable)
4) further development of the open source client to enable all protocol packets to be validated and extra protection added
5) new features - increase the 2 gb limit etc

Without the early stuff the later is redundant and a waste of resources and energy!

Network? Define Network.
1.) Are the people using the WinMx software the "Network"?
2.) Is the communication "Protocol" used by the WinMX software the "Network"?

 If the answer is 1.), it does not matter what kind of communication protocol is used, provided that the WinMx software on the user's PC is as userfriendly a the present WinMx software.

If the answer is 2.), provide me with the full and correct protocol specifications and the full source of the WinMX client including primaries, patches and the DLL's used.  It will then take a very short time to fix the search flooding and maybe the 2GB file limit  and leecher problem.

Hans
 
AMD Phenom II x4, 3000Mhz; 24,115 Bogo MIPS; 
 Main Op. System: Gentoo, Xfce Desktop; 
Wine 3.0.3; WinMx; Bit-Torrent;
Up-Speed 20 Mb/s Down-Speed 50 Mb/s;
 "C" programmer.

Offline White Stripes

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Re: My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
« Reply #94 on: September 20, 2011, 01:47:40 am »
@hanz;

the source to winmx.exe itself is unavailable.... it disappeared with frontcode...

its confusing to me too as to what constitutes 'the network' .... i think ppl just dont want to give up winmx.exe

the 2gig limit is a holdover from the early days of opennap (any arbitrary filesize can technically be used on the latest and last version of the opennap protocol) however the 'hash' winmx uses is fixed in length and will support an absolute max of 4gb filesize ... no more... frontcodes winmx.exe will also bug out if fed anything larger than 2gig...

Offline Hans-Linux

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Re: My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
« Reply #95 on: September 20, 2011, 02:05:09 am »
@hanz;

the source to winmx.exe itself is unavailable.... it disappeared with frontcode...

its confusing to me too as to what constitutes 'the network' .... i think ppl just dont want to give up winmx.exe

the 2gig limit is a holdover from the early days of opennap (any arbitrary filesize can technically be used on the latest and last version of the opennap protocol) however the 'hash' winmx uses is fixed in length and will support an absolute max of 4gb filesize ... no more... frontcodes winmx.exe will also bug out if fed anything larger than 2gig...

The reason I  propose a new protocol but keeping a WinMX like user interface is because the source code is not available. Besided this it would fix the problems like flooding of searches, queuing. leeches, different files with the same hash, and if desired anomizing the users IP address.

The new version can be called WinMx.exe 4.0.
Current  maximum file size on my system is 16 terrabyte (16,000 Gigabyte).  I don't know the Windows 7 limit.
Current state of the are for hashing is SHA.

Hans
 
AMD Phenom II x4, 3000Mhz; 24,115 Bogo MIPS; 
 Main Op. System: Gentoo, Xfce Desktop; 
Wine 3.0.3; WinMx; Bit-Torrent;
Up-Speed 20 Mb/s Down-Speed 50 Mb/s;
 "C" programmer.

Offline White Stripes

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Re: My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
« Reply #96 on: September 20, 2011, 02:12:05 am »
Quote
a new protocol but keeping a WinMX like user interface

you'll have to... in at least some extent... keep the current chat protocol to keep the users happy (or be prepared to write a drop-in replacement for the WCS chat server).... unfortunatly chat is one of the 'weak points' thats being attacked......

Offline achilles

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Re: My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
« Reply #97 on: September 20, 2011, 02:37:36 am »
I would like to see updated protocols with WinMx style GUI. I would define the network as the users.  It may be a new network based on protocol, but if the users migrate to the new client / network then we still have the same user base which equals the same network.
I'm a Hardware, and Cyber Security Guy.

Offline White Stripes

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Re: My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
« Reply #98 on: September 20, 2011, 02:56:32 am »
I would like to see updated protocols with WinMx style GUI. I would define the network as the users.  It may be a new network based on protocol, but if the users migrate to the new client / network then we still have the same user base which equals the same network.

if the userbase and the network arent the same why are the cache servers still running and ppl still wasting bandwidth on attack traffic...... be a hell of a lot easier just to shut down and move on....

Offline achilles

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Re: My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
« Reply #99 on: September 20, 2011, 03:32:43 am »
I tried to help the network as long as I could by running as a Primary while the attacks went on. It was just too time consuming trying to slow the attacks down on my machine, and I can't always be at my machine to keep adding bad IP ranges just to remove them once the attacks stop from those ranges.  I then ran as a secondary for a while, and shared my files just to help the network.  I was never able to download anything I had remaining in my queue which was a lot.  I found it pointless to use WinMx now so I'm waiting for a fix. I've been using P2P since Napster, and I've been using WinMx since its invention. I don't want to see this program die. I want to see it fixed even if it means protocol level changes!
I'm a Hardware, and Cyber Security Guy.

WinMX World :: Forum  |  WinMX World Community  |  Winmxworld.com Strategic Directions  |  My personal ideas for a “safe” NEW WinMx file transfer system
 

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