How is the new patch coming along?

[]2aven (R.I.P.)]

  Well I wasn't gonna make any further posts here but this topic is something I feel strongly about. I'm sure someone will have my post picked apart before I even close out of the forum, lol. Anyways, Is there a reason that this blocking patch cant be released closed source. Uniting two teams would be nice but not necessary.
 
  Most of wmw staff are saying that staying with KM's patch is the best option. Best for who? As an example, let's say that I host a movie room using fxserver. I dont search for many files here because I bring authentic files to winmx, which I believe promotes network health. I run winmx on a primary connection, which, if i'm reading this right has no blocking or filtering. I run a torrent client which has no blocking. So, now i need peer guardian so that i'm not completly unprotected from flooders (anti p2p orgs, ddos). I cant be the only person with this criteria, lol.

  The way i see it is, the benefits from releasing a blocking patch are these:

    Flooders will be blocked from the primary level. (17 out of 20 1xxx ips 2 days ago when i checked the traffic) (cant the fake files flooding be blocked at this level)
    FxServer will be working properly again. (do you realize how many people are using this server)
    Move away from KM's patch and offer one of your own that can be posted on the site. (maybe primary filtering can be added later)
    Prevents future attacks. (do I need to say any more about KM)
    Provides more stable primarys. (if everyone is using secondary blocking and filtering isnt there a shortage on primaries)

  And obviously the only thing we'd be giving up is fake file filtering. (are we not smart enough to recognize a fake file or is there another way to deal with this issue) (how does the amt of fake file flooding compare to the amt. of 1xxx ip flooding).

   GS you say this 1xxx attack is a serious attack on the community, but I guess it's not serious enough to do anything about, so which is it?
   
   

[Me Here]

I'd like to reply Raven to this one since the flooding is sorta my dept.. lol

I'll take these one at a time if its ok..

Flooders will be blocked from the primary level. (17 out of 20 1xxx ips 2 days ago when i checked the traffic) (cant the fake files flooding be blocked at this level)

The Duff IPs being flooded into the network have 0 to do with this subject, in fact that traffic is being generated by a chat server.  Chat Servers then broadcast those as legit IPs to other Chat Servers and the Peer Caches creating a vicious circle of duff primaries causing chat and conections, and WinMX in general, to be unstable.  This traffic cant be fixed with a new patch for WinMX Connections and cant be filtered or blocked by one either.

FxServer will be working properly again. (do you realize how many people are using this server)

I do realize many users like to use FX, whats the real shame in this is that because Fede seems to have abandon the project he cant fix it to add a filter for this traffic , like Ouka has, so as long as KM continues to broadcast it FX will be affected.

Move away from KM's patch and offer one of your own that can be posted on the site. (maybe primary filtering can be added later)

Personally I just dont believe this is enough of a benefit to ask our users to switch and for less functionality at that.

Provides more stable primarys. (if everyone is using secondary blocking and filtering isnt there a shortage on primaries)

This would cause more stable primaries, however the filtering system in place does not limit primaries, there is no shortage of them.

And obviously the only thing we'd be giving up is fake file filtering. (are we not smart enough to recognize a fake file or is there another way to deal with this issue) (how does the amt of fake file flooding compare to the amt. of 1xxx ip flooding).

Its not a matter of 'are we or are users smart enough' its a matter of why does the average user want to care, this is the only network that I know of for file sharing that can boast 0 fakes to contend with and thats a huge accomplishment.   The average limeware user just deals with fakes its a fact of life.. most of the time those users are deleting files or just putting up with the crap on the network, we dont have to and giving that up is not something I would even consider for myself let alone the average user.  It's also a good idea to point out that there are two companies flooding this network at present, Macrovision and MediaDefender, Macrovision files are pretty easily spotted however they are the minority as of about a year ago now, and the average users is going to have more trouble recognizing MediaDefender files as fake.  They  go to great lengths to ensure they look very authentic even putting WinMX rooms tags in names or finding actual files on the network and using the names they have been shared under.

The amount of fake file flooding compared to the amount of duff ips (1.xxx ranges) has no real bearing on this thread as explained above, however your point caused me to think... They are 6 one and half a dozen the other, in my opinion maybe the IPs attack is worse because its being perpetrated by one of our own.

So that comment to GS is not fair is it?  We have asked ppl to stop using WCS, we are doing all we can to help developers of new Chat Servers to get a viable replacement to ask folks to use.

I hope this clears some of those points up for you Raven.

[GhostShip]

Raven I dont want to have to shoot your well meaning post down in flames but in short what you have posted is inaccurate and in places downright wrong.

PG does not and will not block the flooders from the network for two simple reasons

1) Their lists are poorly maintained
2) It cannot read inside a winmx packet to see where it originates from as the patch does.

In response to your claim the primary using dll users are unprotected this is incorrect also.
In response to your question regarding can we not block the !.x.x.x traffic at primary level we can stop dll primaries passing it on but the main issue is once again that the damaging traffic is hidden inside another type of packet and therefore undetectable using the current patch.

There is no shortage of primaries at this time or in fact since a few days in 2005, the dll filters and blocks at primary level so there has never been a need to ask folks to run secondary.

In response to your claim about recognising fake files I can only assume you havent been reading any of the posts made by the anti flooder teams over the last few years, the flooders harvest filepath names, usernames and file names from the network for their own results to look authentic, the fact that they do this allows for us to pinpoint their location and keeps us up to date on their list of "protected" artists, this is helpful of course to then check where their flooding servers are by doing some seacrhing ourselves and obtaining the results and their IP,s. as long as they use the same method to flood the network we are 100% capable of blocking their entire output, this is no fake claim as any dll user can testify to.

I will not get into an arguement with you over what could or should be done as regards the 1.x flooding as its been my contention for some time now that if we all work towards closing down the src of the trouble then further more drastic effort will not be necessary, this is something the community could and should help itself with in terms of ensuring they are doing whats right by their fellow users.

It has never been for me to dictate to anyone on winmx what they should do Raven, I listen and try to organise those with the required talents, they then work as a team to make the communities wishes come to fruit, not always successfully but rest assured they do at least make the effort, as do many others here whom run chat rooms of their own and suffer as you do with any problems, pointing the stick at me is kind of self defeating when I rely on people like yourself to help keep the winmx community healthy, diverse and alive

Happy new year to you btw.

[]2aven (R.I.P.)]

  Well i do appreciate you clearing up some of these issues for me. Such as, I know now that we're completely powerless over the 1xxx flooding and any future similar attacks. I guess the damage thats been done cant be undone.

  I have to say that I still have questions regarding blocking. Why do you discourage people from using peer guardian when its the only way i can find to block the 1xxx ips and anti p2p flooding. If I'm hosting with fxs and using a primary winmx connection im getting flooded with 1xxx ips, macrovision and net2ez (about 1-2 million hits a day from these 3 ips alone). If I have to use peer uardian anyways and I dont search for files on the network why then even use the winmx group modified patch.

  Another issue thats unclear is how do you expect people to stop using wcs when we now have to move away from fxs to wcs or ouka (how many are gonna go with ouka lol). Dont most of you guys use wcs?

  I know I'm pretty much just annoying you guys with quetions right now but mainly what I want to know is there some hope of blocking or using fxs again because if I cant benifit from using the dll why would I bother to anymore.

 

[SamSeeSam]

Go to this thread to see why not to use PG
see Me Here's first post

https://forum.winmxworld.com/index.php?topic=4113.0.html

Cheers

[Me Here]

hum.. good questions .. most of my views about peerguardian are on that thread that Sam is pointing to and its worth a read, the thing to keep in mind here are well a few things.. is Peerguardian evil .. no not in of itself.  Can it be used to effectively block the 1.xxx ips when your hosting with FX from leaving your machine to poison other servers, yes it can.  For that purpose if you have nothing but a homemade list for those ips installed and the WinMX World block list only there is nothing wrong with PG.  So that leads to the real problem being the default lists (and the site in charge of those default lists BlueTack).  Which for that you can consider the points made in the for mentioned post....

So let take this into context, what is being discussed in 'this' thread is the use of PG in its default downloaded state to block with, its useless in this format and can even cause more problems then it solves by  the sheer number of innocent users on the lists and the number of Peer Caches to connect with on it as well.  If you want to discuss its merits for other uses thats fine but I want it made clear that PeerGuardian is not the devil its the devils tool when the regular Joe downloads it and uses the default lists and is told by some groups this will protect them or worse tell them this will filter fake files.

Any one that is actually using WinMX can tell you that there is a great benefit in removing all that crap data and fake file mess from searches, after all you may not use MX to download but several thousands do.

If your using FX, pie, primary (whether you search or not has nothing to do with it) and default lists I can assure you that you (not you per say but the users out there with this set up) are helping to flood the network as discussed not only here but on several p2p sites recently Bluetack seem quite clueless as to who the real enemy is here.  if however your using Pie, with the WinMXWorld block list, and a homemade list to block the duff traffic being spread, then you are at least doing what you can to help block and end the perpetration of flooding and duff IPs from yourself. 

I totally agree with you about the FX Situation, what I feel is the best solution at this time (going way off topic here btw) is to use the pg with a homemade list if you must use FX or WCS which will stop the traffic being sent on from you.  Does that mean im thrilled with the situation .. no Im not and we do not use (at least for our winmx sponsored rooms) wcs.  I do expect ppl to stop using it absolutely, it may not be the tool hes using to launch this attack since its likely hes doing it from his personal server or his bot however do we want to support someone who is hell bent on such destruction, I think not.
We moved off of it and it wasnt easy but this network is worth the efforts it takes to get to know a different server.

You're not annoying us Raven with questions, but I hope you understand now that really this FX issue and the Duff IP Traffic is best left for other threads really as it has nothing to do with a new patch for WinMX. 

I really cant say I understand your last statement as it would seem to me that your already not using the dll patch, I could be wrong about this but even if you are and I am wrong the statement is unclear to me what you mean.

[..Ñøßߥ..]

I do expect ppl to stop using it absolutely, it may not be the tool hes using to launch this attack since its likely hes doing it from his personal server or his bot however do we want to support someone who is hell bent on such destruction, I think not.
We moved off of it and it wasnt easy but this network is worth the efforts it takes to get to know a different server.

Bearing in mind your quote above, and ofc common sense, as we have discussed in the past it would be nice to see the removal of any of his platforms, so why pray tell do wmw seem to wish to cling to kmware patch? seriously, is it just because it filters?

Seems like madness to me, "KM attacks the network and we want to rid the next work of WCS" yet we will continue to use and promote his patch just because it can filter?  Without in anyway trying to flame, have you any idea how hypocritical and simply dumb that sounds? Can you not see that replacing his patch, with a simply connect and block patch would benifit the network? Unification, the removal of another of his platforms, the simplification we would have to promote Winmx to new users, the new zest and vitality to reach out to duped pie users and get them blocking, the list goes on, as does the silence here on the real issue.

I can only think of 1 reason why months and months on, there is no new patch, pride. So the team couldnt get the filtering working, well so what, move on, reap the available benifits and move the community forward.

[]2aven (R.I.P.)]

  I know I sound frustrated with my posts on here but thats cause I am. My problems started months back when this 1xxx thing happened. Obviously I was experiencing a lot of flooding so when i went to check it out i found out I'm getting flooded with 1xxx ip's but also a lot of other ips (macrovision, net2ez).
  I've switched severs 3 times now fxs to ouka to fxs to wcs, lol. My frustration comes mainly because I'm forced to use peerguardian and I'm forced to use wcs both things that ya'll are saying not to use. Both things I personally dont want to use.
  My last statement about the patch means this, I dont search for files much and I use a primary connection so the secondary blocking or filtering doesnt help me much. Im forced to use peerguardian now my bots wont connect most of the time, so why should I continue using the dll?.
 Since yesterday I've been using the host file because I started having new problems that some ppl couldnt get in my room and I couldnt get in some rooms, my bots wont connect etc. I dont want to stay with that but I do what is needed to keep my room going. What I was hoping for is to clean up this flooding or blocking at the primary level, sticking with the dll, but if none of this can be done then i'll just accept that.
  WinMX used to be fun but now I'm just being forced to do this and forced to use that. blah. I offer help in my room which i used to enjoy also but lately I cant even figure this mess out or figure out what to advise people to do.

[Me Here]

Nobby that sounds exactly like what I would expect someone from the pie camps to say, because at present you have no filtering and no answers for users who come to you asking why the downloads time out all the time, and the blocking which I shant harp on because its much better then other pie camps is less then perfect solution either.
And lets not act as tho the end of the world has dawned, and remember that those working on a method of filtering that can be open sourced is still going on.

There is a huge difference in someone using WinMX for its intended purpose and someone choosing to host a chat room.  Using WCS has nothing to do with using WinMX as a p2p system.

The fact is that I do in fact (if its not obvious to anyone here already   :roll: ) place a high priority on users being able to use WinMX for its intended purpose without disruptions and crap results in searches. 

Now Raven.. I still think you may be a bit confused and thats totally understandable. 

For the record lets do this .. lets not call the 1.xxx.xx IPs flooding lets call that Duff Traffic, and we can keep the flooding as its commonly known to describe fake files from the cartel.  (They may well be very similar problems however they work very differently and its only going to add to confusion to discuss them as if they are the same thing)


The DLL wont help with the Duff Traffic, a new one wont either it is a totally different problem.  Im not trying to be inflammatory here im just not sure you understand that point.  As far as this issue goes nothing is going to stop it except one of two things.. everyone hosting with FX or WCS uses something to stop the traffic dead on their end so it goes no further like you are now with PG or a Firewall or KM decides to grow up and stop doing crap to the users of MX.

I know this is frustrating it is for me too, after all im not just sitting back watching yall like fish I actually use WinMX myself and love hosting and the chat room is my kinda place however, that doesn't mean its easy for us or for you.

I'd really like to talk to you in more depth about this issue your having with the bots and things hun but the fact is im not entirely sure this thread is the place.. maybe you could pm me the room name and we can talk face to face about those issues.

[chuck]

 For what seems like for ever ive read here that we neede a new patch.Why do we need a new patch? Ive read many reasons 1 to unify all users to one patch. Sounds good so far.2 To get away from useing KM's software,becouse he is trying to kill WinMX.His WCS server is buggy his this and that is killing MX.OK i get it every one is tired of KM's childish actions.

 So becouse no one can come up with a patch that does all thats wanted or needed the only hope for Winmx is to use a patch made by the same person that everyone on this forum says is trying to kill Mx?

 So what your saying is after close to a year no one here or in pie can make a patch thats better or even close to as good as a patch made by the great satan Km so for the betterment of WinMX use his patch and wait till we can make a new client (which im sure is much easier than makeing a patch) I suggest any one reading this to not hold your breath.

 Im I the only one that thinks this all sounds like some people had better talk to Km and make up at least long enough to learn how to make a patch.It realy looks like that is the only way a new patch will ever be made.That or just stop trash talking about Km out one side of your mouth and pushing his patch as the only patch you promote out the other side of your mouth.
 This whole patch client thing is looking like a joke now.All i see is a bunch of talking from everyone and nothing being done.Any thing some one says about doing  4 people say no thats wrong it cant be done so whats the use of this thread nothing is comming of it all.

[]2aven (R.I.P.)]

  Well I dont know how else to explain this so I have provided a screenshot of what I am talking about. About 10 mins ago i deleted the host file i added yesterday now I am using the dll patch and I'm connected to winmx on primary. Do you see the flooding I am talking about or am I so confused I can tell what flooding is.
 
   Forget about the 1xxx ips, I have switched to wcs and thats not an issue atm. I hear what your saying now about it being 2 different things. I am sorry to be persistent about this but I just want it cleared up. My issue is why do I need to use peer guardain to block these and why cant it be done with the patch.

[]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.]

Your quite right there chuck all this talking is going no where except the usual row over what should be done, i want closed source the next person don't.... someone wants filtering....others don't care.....blocking ? kmware? real argument starters lol.

It would seem kms patch cant be improved on atm (or for the foreseeable future unless things are afoot that we don't know about) so is there really a point to starting another year off arguing about it all ?

As for this release or that release uniting groups.... does anyone honestly believe that's gonna happen ? perhaps yes it would please some but I'm guessing as many as it pleases it would also upset.... outcome = nothing gained but another  patch just to split things a little more..... something that's not going to be avoidable I'm guessing whatever happens.

So where do we go ?
I think (for what its worth) that until someone comes along and says right this is the benchmark patch & that's it take it or leave it.... it works fine blocks filters & is user friendly to all ....closed source ( i would personally preferr) ......open source ( as long as the network couldn't be ruined i would also go along with)

Made by ? .... I would preferr at least a couple of  trusted ppl to know all the workings so that one couldn't turn rouge and bugger it all up in the future without someone else able to stop this happening.

Just my thoughts ...... but one thing i can say for sure is whatever happens there is going to be some people upset (inevitable) so it would seem it would be a case of damage limitation until the solution (be it the best possible for the most users) is in full scale use by the masses....... then perhaps everyone will pull together and get winmx back to the top where it belongs.
 

[GhostShip]

A year Chuck ? Give over with the exaggeration old mate, a new patch wasnt necessary until KM threw a tantrum in July , you go make up with him as we do not and will not support network attackers, if you want to make your own patch get to it, no one is holding you back except yourself.

If and when we have something to offer folks that will work in a more community friendly manner rest assured you will all be the first to know, until then damaging speculation and gum beating "second guessing" should be held in check, we all get frustrated by delays but as its entirely voluntary what ppl do with their time I cannot and will not pass on any annoyance or frustrated demands to those working purely out of good will for you all.

Nothing is collapsing or dying lets get a grip here and treat any symptoms as best we can, that means all of us not just this site.

[chuck]

 Ghost there has been talk of a need for a new patch for over a year old mate.If you like it or not you do support his work with the patch you use.Its his work not any ones but his.Ive seen a new patch being talked about on Vladd44 forum in the last few days ready to be tested.ive not said any thing is collapsing as you say so i wont put words in your mouth you dont in mine ok mate.As far as makeing up with km i dont need to and as far as a patch goes ive never said i could make one as so many others here have and if i did ive done just as good as any one so far ive not made one same as every one here.

And as you say :we do not and will not support network attackers if thats true who made the patch you use? If you say KM i guess that says alot doesnt it?

[GhostShip]

Does it ?

It seem you have another agenda to mine Chuck, I and most winmx users wish merely to use winmx using the best solution available, at the moment the solution KM made before he gave up running things is the best one bar none, your logic of saying if we use a patch made by one of the sites founders for its intended purpose should cease because he has taken it upon himself to act stupidly recently hold no water here, please ask yourself why you think this is and why we should allow ppl to act to the detriment of the entire community if we want to use the patch they made for us all ?

Would you stop driving a car if the guy who invented the engine was found guilty of a criminal offence ?

I hope you can see from my example the illogical aspect of your view.

I dont intent to lie for anyone, KM has acted outside of his remit from the community and I acknowledge that, unlike some I have to shoulder some responsibility for helping put him in the driving seat and I,m honour bound to use the specialist knowledge I have to help fix up the mess, all you have read in this entire thread is that I set the specs for the patch design a little higher than we have been able to acheive thus far, there are vaild reasons I havent lowered those specs and once again I have taken this road for the benefit of the entire community not ourselves here,one day I hope you,ll see the reason a little more clearly, for now I ask you have some trust  and look a little bit more in depth before posting "off the cuff", no one is benefitting from your current style of post.

[chuck]

 My agenda if i had one would only be to point out your hypocrasy of trashing Km and still useing his patch and promoting its use.Its not i who am picking and choseing what serves my purpose.You act as if im here to argue with you sorry far from it.All ive done is post my feelings and it looks like it hit a nerve with you.Sorry thought people were allowed to think for themselves here and not think , speek and follow blindly like sheep. So sorry Ghost i see the error in my way so i will blindly fall in line now and not ask or question any more on this matter as its a sore spot and upsets you.

[GhostShip]

What you fail to appreciate is simply this, KM did not do everything alone and if he acts like an idiot I intend to call him one, whether you like it or not Chuck, go insult others with your innuendo.

Feel free to support KM and his network attacks, you stand in the minority I,m sure.

[$i£ve®$haÐów]

Hiya
Not to sure what im talking about here, but to be honest winmx is going rather well to date, and think we should all be enjoying it rather than trying to pick holes in it. The argument seems to be of the patch. As far as im concerened it works and im happy 
so ppl happy winmxing 


                   GóÐÐ맧

[]-[êll.Ôñ.ËÀR'][']-[.]

Its about making winmx even better for all so that people such as yourself ]}(¥)® Юágöñ GóÐÐ맧 can continue to enjoy it long into the future ....perhaps a look through some of the threads on the patch will explain why feelings run so high on the subject and will also explain the need for a new patch in the future & why people post as they do about it. 

[chuck]

 Again Ghost i ask you not to try to put words in my mouth and ill not your's. Id love for you to point to one time ive said I support KM or his network attacks. The only innuendo or insults are comeing from you towards me.I can assure you ive not even tried to insult you if i had you would have no doubt at all. Sorry if just by stateing my thoughts and asking a few questions its upset you as i said earlier i will blindly fall in line now and not ask or question any more on this matter as its a sore spot and upsets you. Is this one of those you have to have the last word insulting me to make you feel better ? If so ill just ignore your insults and innuendo's.If it makes you feel better ill say your right,you win,i was wrong for even thinking.